"access to life-saving medicines is not a luxury"

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Basstrap

ONE love, blood, life
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~Canadian HIV/AIDS Legal Network

I was wondering what thoughts people here might have on this issue.
Canadians and otherwise, as I think this is debated in many nations.

Killing Bill C-393 would be a facepalm of the highest possible order. - Boing Boing

The issue is control without regard for doing the right thing: This is essentially about patents. It's not that patents are bad, but rather that patents can be bad. As you probably already know, patents are a service provided by government to protect an inventor, such that the inventor has an element of control over how their innovation/product gets used. This is generally a good thing, because ultimately it provides order to a process that would get very chaotic very quickly should the patent not exist. However, sometimes the inventor isn't the best person to make decisions about control. Sometimes, the inventor doesn't have the best information to take stock of a situation, or sometimes there might be a moral argument where monetary performance should not take precedent. In other words, sometimes, there are special circumstances where you could say it is reasonable that this control is tweaked.

To illustrate this, here are some hypothetical (and not so hypothetical examples):

1. You are a company that recently received your patent, so that now your drug is being sold for $1500 instead of the previous $10 pricetag.

2. Your country has experienced a series of anthrax scares. The company that holds the patent for the most effective drug against infection from the offending bacterium, sees an opportunity, and decides to jack up the price.

3. Someone has declared war on your country. To defend yourself, you would like to utilize a particular product. Unfortunately, it is under a cost prohibitive patent and therefore out of reach.

4. There is an impending nuclear power plant meltdown, and there is technology that would be incredibly useful to mitigate radiation contamination and poisoning. However, your resources are already stretched because of the utterly horrific effects of a 9.0 Richter Scale earthquake, and this technology is too expensive at the scale that is required in such an emergency.

5. There are markets where your life saving drug is not being sold because no-one can afford them anyway. However, the drug (which could be a matter of life and death for millions) could be made at a cost (i.e. a generic) that makes it accessible in these markets, but if and only if, the patent over them is adjusted.

Here is my point. In all of the above cases, you would like to live in a civil society where the government can step in and forcibly change the patent, because in every case, there is an element of morality involved. And guess what - governments can do this and they do! It's called a "compulsory license," and they exist for this very purpose.

In fact, even the WTO is on board with this idea. They recognize that in some circumstances, such as those pertaining to global health, there needs to be an understanding that using such compulsory licenses is both necessary and an obligation. In fact, if you have a hankering for the legalese that outlines this for patents over essential medicines, you need only look up info on the Doha Declaration.
 
"access to life-saving medicines is not a luxury"
It is a luxury if you live in the U.S., and you of course don't deserve health coverage if you don't have a job that offers it, because you are obviously a lazy black person / mexican / illegal immigrant.
 
1. You are a company that recently received your patent, so that now your drug is being sold for $1500 instead of the previous $10 pricetag.

I heard a story the other day about some shot that prevents premature births had that happen to it, went from $15 to $1500. Is that true?
 
yep it also seems to depend on your post(zip) code, sadly...
 
I heard a story the other day about some shot that prevents premature births had that happen to it, went from $15 to $1500. Is that true?



Both my parents died in 1998 of cancer.

My mom had ovarian cancer and died in July that year.

My father had a brain tumor. He died in November.

It was a tough year.


It has always troubled me that the closer they came to dying,
the medicine price went higher.

The medicine we purchased for mother, a week before she passed on, cost over two-hundred dollars for one dose.
 
Both my parents died in 1998 of cancer.

My mom had ovarian cancer and died in July that year.

My father had a brain tumor. He died in November.

It was a tough year.


It has always troubled me that the closer they came to dying,
the medicine price went higher.

The medicine we purchased for mother, a week before she passed on, cost over two-hundred dollars for one dose.

Wow, that must have been tough, Iron Horse.

I'm sorry for your loss.

:hug:
 
I can totally sympathize with iron horse on this. Medicine prices are insane. I remember my parents talking about the prices of some pills my dad had to take, some of the medicines he had. How they expect people to pay crazy amounts for medicine AND still have money leftover to pay for other necessities is beyond me. It's so incredibly stupid, I don't understand how or why people think this setup is okay.

I'm also sorry for your losses, iron horse :hug:. That's horrible.

Angela
 
it's ridiculous. my parents are having to go through this with my (maternal) grandma. my parents have been trying to pull themselves back up since another health crisis ~1 year ago, now they're being expected to pay for the medications required to keep her alive with money that doesn't exist.

i know a couple people who had to declare bankruptcy due to the medical costs for life-saving surgeries, medication, etc. the fact that the government can essentially sit back and see this happen and let pharmaceutical companies set prices of vital medications is insane. no medication should cost $200+ (in iron horse's mother's case) for one dose. especially not one that can be the difference between life and death. it sickens me.

i also echo previous sentiments, i'm sorry for what you had to go through, iron horse. i'm sorry for your losses.
 
i know a couple people who had to declare bankruptcy due to the medical costs for life-saving surgeries, medication, etc.

We've had to do similar things.

Add in the fact, too, that sometimes these pills and surgeries don't wind up doing anything other than making the problem even worse due to misdiagnoses, or due to horrible side effects that force you to take a pill to combat those, and then another pill to combat the side effects of the first one, and so on and so on, and you REALLY start to realize just how much money is being wasted.

Angela
 
We've had to do similar things.

Add in the fact, too, that sometimes these pills and surgeries don't wind up doing anything other than making the problem even worse due to misdiagnoses, or due to horrible side effects that force you to take a pill to combat those, and then another pill to combat the side effects of the first one, and so on and so on, and you REALLY start to realize just how much money is being wasted.

Angela
exactly. my dad had knee surgery about two months ago and his knee hurts even more than it did before. plus it's his second surgery on that knee (the first was in the late 80s) too! now he's got to get shots in his knee every so often but he's still in a lot of pain by the end of the day.

plus i used to work with someone who'd had back surgery and same thing, he was still in pain afterwards. he wasn't an old guy either, i'd say he was in his late 30s maybe? i mean geez.

also like you mentioned about giving you pills for everything. it's all so frustrating. i'm not much of a pill person, i'd be happy if i didn't have to take any at all. i've got to take four every night which i hate doing; two are just to help prevent migraines but of course i still get them, though at least not as much. of course there can't be a cure for everything, but come on.
 
exactly. my dad had knee surgery about two months ago and his knee hurts even more than it did before. plus it's his second surgery on that knee (the first was in the late 80s) too! now he's got to get shots in his knee every so often but he's still in a lot of pain by the end of the day.

plus i used to work with someone who'd had back surgery and same thing, he was still in pain afterwards. he wasn't an old guy either, i'd say he was in his late 30s maybe? i mean geez.

Ugh. That sucks. Poor guys. I hope I never wind up like that (or that I'll be fortunate enough to have better means to treat such things by the time I am old enough to deal with those problems).

also like you mentioned about giving you pills for everything. it's all so frustrating. i'm not much of a pill person, i'd be happy if i didn't have to take any at all. i've got to take four every night which i hate doing; two are just to help prevent migraines but of course i still get them, though at least not as much. of course there can't be a cure for everything, but come on.

God, yes. We're looking for a quick fix, we just throw pills out as the solution instead of actually creating cures. Pills treat symptoms at best, and only temporarily. Too many people either forget that or don't know that. And even then, if a doctor suggests you try something, most people feel uncomfortable arguing with doctors, 'cause, you know, they're supposed to know better than you are, and most people don't bother or don't think to inform themselves much about necessary questions and rights and such as patients, so they just take whatever's given and wind up having to deal with the consequences.

My rule of thumb's always been if the list of side effects takes up most of the commercial, it's probably best to avoid the product. I take Ibuprofen for migraines and Midol for feminine stuff and that is IT. I plan to try and avoid excessive pill use as much as possible.

Angela
 
Phil used to have to take an expensive seizure medication (expensive b/c there was no generic and he had to take 4 pills a day). When he was between jobs and had no insurance, his Dr. could get him several months free from the drug company. When he was on my health insurance, sorry, no deal. Oh and the insurance only covered a little part of it. :rolleyes:

Luckily everything I take, I can get generics in 3 months supply with a cheap co-pay b/c they are generics and I don't care. Also it's nice that most antibiotics are now free at Meijer or $4 at Target.

I used to not be much of a pill person either until I "grew into" these horrible 3-5 day classic migraines. Often I could not work, drive, do anything with the dogs, exercise....just had to stay home for days with a pillow on my face. Tried various OTC cocktails and remedies....nothing really worked. Went to the Dr. and got a prescription, plus combine it with a high (1000mg) dose of NSAID and now the migraines go from a 5 day ordeal to dissolving in about 1/2 hour. Everyone I know that's tried the prescription I take has had horrible side effects and could not continue. The list is scary (some as bad as the migraine), but so far I've had none other than a slightly drowsy/happy sensation. At this point I don't care what it is or why it works, I have my life back.
 
1 Immitrex (not sure the dose but it's standard) and 1000mg ibuprofen at the same time. I can take more Immitrex later but so far haven't needed to. Unfortunately it doesn't prevent migraines, but hot damn I can literally feel the pain dissolving! In the past two months I've had both the worst aura migraine (lost all peripheral vision, almost all vision on the left, and had some really scary/funky "auras", plus my left arm/hand numb and tingling) and the most acutely painful migraines I've ever had and it worked on both. If I'm like my mother, I'll outgrow this eventually (as hormones change...hers stopped when she had us kids). I always had headaches as a kid but in the past two years it's gotten out of control. The first time I had an aura migraine I thought I was having a seizure. Of course ideally I'd like to know why it happens and cure or prevent it but with a strong genetic component I don't know if I could. At least this way I'm no longer missing work and doing nothing for days on end.
 
I'd guess that most if not all research and development in medicine today is for treatment... in other words drugs. It's because there is frankly no profit to be made from curing our conditions or diseases.
 
I'd guess that most if not all research and development in medicine today is for treatment... in other words drugs. It's because there is frankly no profit to be made from curing our conditions or diseases.

Well, as trendy as it is condemn all medical research with one "big pharma" brush, I think it may be just a little too cynical. Also, you should not equate the word "drugs" to mean treatment alone. The cure for TB is usually a combination of 4 or 5 different drugs. But, it works. But it only works if the patient is committed to taking those drugs throughout the whole period they are supposed to take them, even when the symptoms subside. If stopped to early, not only is it possible that you will not be cured, but you may also contribute to drug-resistance in the TB bacterium. Same goes for anti-malarial treatment as I understand it.

The problem with pharmaceutical companies is not that they purposely avoid developing a cure (there is a large profit incentive to develop cures, after-all)
 
Also it's nice that most antibiotics are now free at Meijer or $4 at Target.

wow! can you buy antibiotics freely in the US without a medical prescription?? :ohmy:

is antibiotic use extremely widespread there then? here, well in France and the UK at least, antibiotics are only available on a doctor's prescription, and in recent years they have been prescribed less and less due to massive problems relating to resistance, MRSA etc... it's a really serious issue... and doctors are really trying to discourage unnecessary use these days... is that not the situation in the US then??
 
mama cass said:
wow! can you buy antibiotics freely in the US without a medical prescription?? :ohmy:

is antibiotic use extremely widespread there then? here, well in France and the UK at least, antibiotics are only available on a doctor's prescription, and in recent years they have been prescribed less and less due to massive problems relating to resistance, MRSA etc... it's a really serious issue... and doctors are really trying to discourage unnecessary use these days... is that not the situation in the US then??

No. Not at all.

And doctors try to educate about antibiotics, and their limitations, people just don't always want to listen.

But you still can't get an antibiotic without a prescription.
 
wow! can you buy antibiotics freely in the US without a medical prescription?? :ohmy:

is antibiotic use extremely widespread there then? here, well in France and the UK at least, antibiotics are only available on a doctor's prescription, and in recent years they have been prescribed less and less due to massive problems relating to resistance, MRSA etc... it's a really serious issue... and doctors are really trying to discourage unnecessary use these days... is that not the situation in the US then??

No (well, I can, but....). They are prescribed, but are free from the pharmacy. The doctor calls in a scrip (or gives you the piece of paper) and you go get them. The common ones are free at Meijer or $4 at the Target pharmacy I use (not worth it to me to switch pharmacies for $4). Usually we pay out the wazoo for most prescription drugs. Phil used to have one that was $4 a day and that was after insurance supposedly paid for part of it. And I've heard of some cancer drugs that are insanely expensive, like $10 per pill. These are all prescriptions from a doctor, but we still have to pay for them, even with good health insurance (which we also pay for).

My grandma had MRSA for years, may have died from it (she had many serious health problems, any one of which could have killed her and I don't think my grandpa ordered an autopsy).
 
ahh ok! i just had visions of people stocking up with packs of antibiotics in their shopping baskets!

healthcare is so expensive in france as well... as a freelancer i pay a compulsory minimum of 6.5% of my profits + other tax deductions added back on(!) just on State health insurance which only reimburses up to a certain percentage (up to 65% depending on the type of treatment etc), and we have to top up with private health insurance which costs around 1500 euros a year, but most things are then 100% covered... it's quite shocking when they send you the statement showing how much your treatment cost... was very relieved to have insurance when i received my statement for a 2-night hospital stay which ended up costing about 4000 euros :ohmy: it is shocking really...

but then medical care in France is one of the best in the world - it really is amazing! it is probably one of the best places to be sick - as long as you are 100% covered! otherwise there are nasty surprises... i've known of friends/family caught out when coming on holiday to France with only the standard European health cover (formally the E111) and didn't bother to take out extra health insurance, and ended up having to pay thousands out of their own pocket for emergency treatment which wouldn't be reimbursed...
 
This story has an even unhappier ending
FDA and Makena: Agency opens up competition for premature pregnancy drug - latimes.com

The FDA, which represents Big Government trying to control the FREE MARKET, decided that the private company charging $1500 for dosage was unfair. How it CAPITALISM unfair!?

More of Obooma and the DemoRATS trying to turn the U.S. into a SOCIALIST nation. Libtards never learn.
 
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