A Trial in Philadelphia - Page 6 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind
Click Here to Login
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 07-01-2013, 12:32 PM   #76
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
Pearl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: NYC
Posts: 5,653
Local Time: 04:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
women always think it's about them. so self-centered!

it's as if women think they're more important than a potentially male zygote.
Yeah I know. I'm a woman, I'm emotional and therefore, cannot be rational for the life of me. And forget about it when it's that time of the month or I'm actually pregnant - then I really am a basket case! Not to mention that my brain is much smaller than a man's.
__________________

__________________
Pearl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2013, 12:42 PM   #77
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 16,297
Local Time: 03:32 PM
Who is going to be paying for these unnecessary procedures (the transvaginal ultrasounds)?
__________________

__________________
anitram is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2013, 01:02 PM   #78
Refugee
 
AliEnvy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 2,320
Local Time: 08:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galeongirl View Post
IMO it's a woman's personal choice. Something SHE has to decide.
And really, this is the fundamental issue that most who fall on the pro-life side of the spectrum won't accept as legitimate.

Life is created and decided by God and all life is sacred. Except for all the extenuating circumstances where 'we' decide there are exceptions (and usually use God to justify them). So there are no absolutes.

There is only the denial to women of the autonomy to make a decision that is ultimately a value judgment that her life or standard of life is more important than that of her unborn child.

I find it most comparable to the killing of innocents in war which we call collateral damage (not murder) to deny their humanity. But really, there was a decision made about the relative value of those lives.

Many pro-choice people deny the same humanity to the unborn rather than acknowledge the real (and uncomfortable) value judgment that is being made.
__________________
AliEnvy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2013, 01:06 PM   #79
Galeonbroad
 
Galeongirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Schoo Fishtank
Posts: 70,773
Local Time: 09:32 PM
IF life is created by god, so is the woman. And in that line of thinking, shouldn't that god be the one who gave that woman a brain to think and make her own decisions? So in a way, if you let the woman decide, you still let 'god' decide?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by GraceRyan View Post
And if U2 EVER did Hawkmoon live....and the version from the Lovetown Tour, my uterus would leave my body and fling itself at Bono - for realz.
Don't worry baby, it's gonna be all right. Uncertainty can be a guiding light...
Galeongirl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2013, 01:10 PM   #80
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
Pearl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: NYC
Posts: 5,653
Local Time: 04:32 PM
I believe abortion should be the business of the following:

The woman
The man involved, if he's available or deserves to have a say (a rapist cannot shouldn't have a say)
The woman's doctor
And if she believes, her God.

Many fail to realize that few women treat abortion like it's no big deal. Many pro-lifers seem to think all women who have had abortions are promiscuous and have had several abortions in their lives. Boy, are they wrong.
__________________
Pearl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2013, 01:43 PM   #81
Refugee
 
AliEnvy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 2,320
Local Time: 08:32 PM
^ I still think there is collective interest in minimizing the need and defining parameters.
__________________
AliEnvy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2013, 02:06 PM   #82
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Strong Badia
Posts: 3,430
Local Time: 08:32 PM
And what role should the government play in defining how abortions are to be regulated and performed? The case in TX is about this. It has nothing to do with a woman's right to choose, but instead making sure that women are safe and protected when they go through an invasive surgical procedure that carries a degree of risk, as well as making sure that butchers who want to make a quick buck are kept out of the ORs of the world.
__________________
nathan1977 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2013, 02:20 PM   #83
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 16,297
Local Time: 03:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan1977 View Post
The case in TX is about this. It has nothing to do with a woman's right to choose, but instead making sure that women are safe and protected when they go through an invasive surgical procedure that carries a degree of risk
There are equivalent bills floating around in state legislatures regulating, with similar specificity, other invasive surgical procedures that carry degrees of risk? Really?

The US has the highest rate of c-sections in the world, far exceeding rates that are seen as acceptable by your own medical associations. Do we see bills regulating these?

You are not so naive to believe that it has "nothing to do with a woman's right to choose."
__________________
anitram is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2013, 02:37 PM   #84
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,499
Local Time: 03:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by anitram View Post
Who is going to be paying for these unnecessary procedures (the transvaginal ultrasounds)?


why, the state of course. they will be free and mandatory.

but all other health care shouldn't be on my dime.
__________________
Irvine511 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2013, 02:39 PM   #85
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
iron yuppie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Chicago
Posts: 9,448
Local Time: 02:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pearl View Post
Many fail to realize that few women treat abortion like it's no big deal. Many pro-lifers seem to think all women who have had abortions are promiscuous and have had several abortions in their lives. Boy, are they wrong.
Exactly. When I was pro-life (way back when) this is exactly the realization that changed my position. No one is "pro-abortion," only pro-choice.
__________________
iron yuppie is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2013, 02:57 PM   #86
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 16,297
Local Time: 03:32 PM
Also forgotten, or conveniently not mentioned is this statement:

Quote:

The Texas District of the American Congress of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (ACOG) opposes SB 5/HB 60 and other legislative proposals that are not based on sound science or that attempt to prescribe how physicians should care for their individual patients. As a District of the Nation's leading authority in women's health, our role is to ensure that policy proposals accurately reflect the best available medical knowledge.

SB 5/HB 60 will not enhance patient safety or improve the quality of care that women receive. This bill does not promote women's health, but erodes it by denying women in Texas the benefits of well-researched, safe, and proven protocols.
or this by the Texas Hospital Association:

Quote:

THA agrees that women should receive high-quality care and that physicians should be held accountable for acts that violate their license. However, a requirement that physicians who perform one particular outpatient procedure, abortion, be privileged at a hospital is not the appropriate way to accomplish these goals.

[...]

Should a woman develop complications from an abortion or any other procedure performed outside the hospital and need emergency care, she should present to a hospital emergency department. Requiring that a doctor have privileges at a particular hospital does not guarantee that this physician will be at the hospital when the woman arrives. She will appropriately be treated by the physician staffing the emergency room when she presents there. If the emergency room physician needs to consult with the physician who performed the abortion, the treating physician can contact the doctor telephonically, which is often done in other emergency situations.
__________________
anitram is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2013, 02:57 PM   #87
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,499
Local Time: 03:32 PM
when it comes to what's happening in TX, it's really not the rightness v wrongness of abortion that's at issue, it's how access to abortion is being reduced in the name of health and safety using Gosnell as a pretext.
__________________
Irvine511 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2013, 03:00 PM   #88
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Strong Badia
Posts: 3,430
Local Time: 08:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by anitram View Post
The US has the highest rate of c-sections in the world, far exceeding rates that are seen as acceptable by your own medical associations. Do we see bills regulating these?
Better even than that -- the NY State Department of Health is so concerned about deficiencies in maternity wards that they have a website where you can research any hospital with such problems.
Hospital Maternity-Related Procedures and Practices Statistics

The website was around even before a case like this, a year ago.
Botched C-Section Procedure Poses More Questions | NBC New York

It's great that women can look up hospitals with documented issues, and that NY State promotes such freedom of information. Should women who want to get an abortion be offered any less?
__________________
nathan1977 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2013, 03:01 PM   #89
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 16,297
Local Time: 03:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan1977 View Post
It's great that women can look up hospitals with documented issues, and that NY State allows such freedom of information. Should women who want to get an abortion be offered any less?
And that's what SB 5 was about?

Right.
__________________
anitram is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2013, 03:15 PM   #90
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Strong Badia
Posts: 3,430
Local Time: 08:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by anitram View Post
And that's what SB 5 was about?

Right.
You realize that the attitude your posts demonstrate are only highlighting the problem, right? Let's figure out how to constructively engage on the issues at hand. Unless you think that women's health isn't one of them? But since you posted to statistics published by the CDC, you surely must recognize that government has at least some role to play in the regulations and policies that govern the health of its citizens. And, being the realist that you are, you must recognize that at least part of the problem that creates a monster like Gosnell is the lack of regulation and follow-through that allowed him to operate with impunity for decades....and that kept politicians from saving the lives of the women and babies he murdered.

If abortion is legal, it should be safe. If an abortion doctor is unsafe, s/he should not be legal. Do you disagree?

Your posts make me wonder: is it not possible to be reasonable on this issue?
__________________

__________________
nathan1977 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:32 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com