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Old 03-06-2009, 04:22 PM   #1
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A Little Treat For International Women's Day

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A Brazilian archbishop says all those who helped a child rape victim secure an abortion are to be excommunicated from the Catholic Church.
The girl, aged nine, who lives in the north-eastern state of Pernambuco, became pregnant with twins.

It is alleged that she had been sexually assaulted over a number of years by her stepfather.

The excommunication applies to the child's mother and the doctors involved in the procedure.

The pregnancy was terminated on Wednesday.

Abortion is only permitted in Brazil in cases of rape and where the mother's life is at risk and doctors say the girl's case met both these conditions.
Police believe that the girl at the centre of the case had been sexually abused by her step-father since she was six years old.

The fact that she was pregnant with twins was only discovered after she was taken to hospital in Pernambuco complaining of stomach pains.

Her stepfather was arrested last week, allegedly as he tried to escape to another region of the country.

He is also suspected of abusing the girl's physically handicapped older sister who is now 14.

Intervention bid
The Catholic Church tried to intervene to prevent the abortion going ahead but the procedure was carried out on Wednesday.

Now a Church spokesman says all those involved, including the child's mother and the doctors, are to be excommunicated.

The Archbishop of Olinda and Recife, Jose Cardoso Sobrinho, told Brazil's TV Globo that the law of God was above any human law.

He said the excommunication would not apply to the child because of her age, but would affect all those who ensured the abortion was carried out.
However, doctors at the hospital said they had to take account of the welfare of the girl, and that she was so small that her uterus did not have the ability to contain one child let alone two.

While the action of the Church in opposing an abortion for a young rape victim is not unprecedented, it has attracted criticism from women's rights groups in Brazil.
BBC NEWS | Americas | Rape row sparks excommunications

At least the Archbishop isn't being a hypocrite.
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Old 03-06-2009, 04:28 PM   #2
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*sigh*

Yet more progression from the Catholic Church!
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Old 03-06-2009, 04:33 PM   #3
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These events need to be chalked up, if only to be reminded the next time the Church makes moral pronouncements against other groups.
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Old 03-06-2009, 04:54 PM   #4
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A Brazilian archbishop says all those who helped a child rape victim secure an abortion are to be excommunicated


this is a good thing

I think all churches should start excommunicating anyone that does not believe the Bible "word for word".


I'd like to apply for excommunication from just about every Church out there.


I reject there 'dogma'. They can reject me until the endtimes get here.

I think they should have to give these people a 'refund' of all the offerings and donations they have made over the years.

(always ask for a reciept
1. you can show them to St Peter at the gate
2. when you are old and homeless, you can take you reciepts, perhaps $40,000, $50,000 or even $100,000 and ask the chuch for help, don't expect to get anything but a blessing)
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Old 03-06-2009, 05:01 PM   #5
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This archbishop is sick minded. He cares more for the rules of the church than human rights. A nine year old pregnant with twins due to rape deserves an abortion. Her body can't handle it! It may kill her or something.

Some people need to be more Christ-like than church-like.
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Old 03-06-2009, 05:07 PM   #6
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Some people need to be more Christ-like than church-like.
Thats a good way of putting it. Its all very well being pro-life, but they arnt pro to this little girls life are they?

I wonder what help they were planning to give her if they got their way? Not much I imagine.
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Old 03-06-2009, 05:15 PM   #7
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What makes these rape babies any less sacred than Gods other children?

If abortion is absolutely wrong in the eyes of God then mustn't we be consistent, this isn't a slippery slope where we can let peoples opinions and medical details undercut Gods law.
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Old 03-06-2009, 05:20 PM   #8
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The girl shouldnt suffer because of her evil step-father. You could take the view that 2 lives (babies) would outweigh the 1 of the child, but hell, thats like saying an eye for an eye. Nothing good comes from either situation, but if the potential twins arnt going to have a good life, and potential medical issues, why ruin 3 lives?
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Old 03-06-2009, 05:20 PM   #9
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What makes these rape babies any less sacred than Gods other children?
.
This is something I've always had an issue with too... to 'permit' a woman an abortion when the foetus is a product of rape is hypocritical if you disagree with rape in the first place. 'A life is a life' is it not? The pro-life argument does seem to waver on a lot of these issues, and such wavering weakens the argument.
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Old 03-06-2009, 07:27 PM   #10
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What makes these rape babies any less sacred than Gods other children?
They aren't any less sacred. But I support abortion if the mother's life can be in danger, and that looks to be the case with this girl. She was a child pregnant with twins. What were the chances of her actually carrying them to term? She didn't have the hips for the twins. I could imagine the damage it would do to her body if she ended up carrying them for a long she could go.

If she were to remain pregnant and miraculously carry them to term, then I would say she put them up for adoption. Not because she is far too young to be a mother, but because she was raped.
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Old 03-06-2009, 08:25 PM   #11
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They aren't any less sacred. But I support abortion if the mother's life can be in danger, and that looks to be the case with this girl. She was a child pregnant with twins.
If she was 13 and had the hips, you'd be in favour of forcing her to carry to term?

I feel the same way deep does. Excommunicate my ass, see if I care.
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Old 03-06-2009, 09:31 PM   #12
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If she was 13 and had the hips, you'd be in favour of forcing her to carry to term?
Hell no.

If a woman -or a girl for that matter - doesn't want to be pregnant, by all means have an abortion.
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Old 03-06-2009, 09:33 PM   #13
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I guess the church hasn't heard of undue influence.
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Old 03-07-2009, 07:27 PM   #14
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TIME Magazine, Mar. 6


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"God's laws," said [Archibishop Jose Cardoso Sobrinho], dictate that abortion is a sin and that transgressors are no longer welcome in the Roman Catholic Church. "They took the life of an innocent," Sobrinho told TIME in a telephone interview. "Abortion is much more serious than killing an adult. An adult may or may not be an innocent, but an unborn child is most definitely innocent. Taking that life cannot be ignored."

...Abortion is illegal in Brazil except in cases of rape or when the mother's life is in danger, both of which apply in this case. (The girl's immature hips would have made labor dangerous; the Catholic opinion was that she could have had a cesarean section.) When the incident came to light in local newspapers, the Church first asked a judge to halt the process and then condemned those involved, including the 9-year-old's distraught mother.

...Evangelicals have not projected a united pro-life platform in Brazil, certainly not one as monolithic as the Catholic Church's. But at least one major sect, the Universal Church of the Kingdom of God, has taken a stance that showcases its differences with its Catholic rival. The Universal Church's television channel TV Record recently aired spots featuring a woman declaring, "I decided who to marry. I decided to use the pill. With my vote I decided who'd be elected President. I decided to work so that I won't be discriminated against. Why can't I decide what to do with my own body? Women should be able to decide for themselves what's important."

The public-relations campaigns of the Catholic Church's rivals do not impress Archbishop Cardoso Sobrinho. He told TIME that the Vatican rejects believers who pick and choose their issues. Rome "is not going to open the door to anyone just to get more members," he said after comparing abortion to the Holocaust. "We know that people have other ideas, but if they do, then they are not Catholics. We want people who adhere to God's laws."

...In truth, abortions and unwanted pregnancies are a sad constant in Brazil. Although abortion is illegal, an estimated 1 million women each year have one. The poor are forced into clandestine clinics or take medication, while the better-off are treated by qualified physicians at well-appointed surgeries known to anyone with money and overlooked by colluding authorities. That secrecy has a price. More than 200,000 women each year are treated in public hospitals for complications arising from illegal abortions, according to Health Ministry figures. Those who don't have the courage or the money to be treated take the pregnancy to term. Although the fertility rate has fallen considerably in Brazil (from 6.1 children in 1960 to about 2 today), 1 in 3 pregnancies is unwanted, according to Dr. Jefferson Drezett, head of the Hospital Perola Byington, Latin America's largest women's health clinic. Meanwhile, 1 in 7 Brazilian women between the ages of 15 and 19 is a mother, and the average age at which women have their first child has fallen to 21, from 22.4 in 1996, according to a government-funded study.

Those numbers shock the Catholic Church. But the Church's response to the Recife rape and abortion has shocked public opinion. Some Brazilians hope the controversy may compel the country to deal seriously with an issue that affects so many of its citizens. "Brazil wants to be a world leader, but the government can't guarantee equality for women," says [NGO policy associate Beatriz] Galli. "This is not a topic that anyone wants to debate."
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Old 03-08-2009, 01:23 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by A_Wanderer View Post
What makes these rape babies any less sacred than Gods other children?

If abortion is absolutely wrong in the eyes of God then mustn't we be consistent, this isn't a slippery slope where we can let peoples opinions and medical details undercut Gods law.
This is precisely how the Catholic Church thinks too. And, frankly, although the Catholic Church stated that having a C-section was enough to ensure that her life wasn't in danger, I'm pretty sure that the official Catholic stance on this issue is that the child's life still morally takes precedent over that of the mother, even if, in this circumstance, you're actually given a choice.

Like it or not, the exception for rape, etc. is an ad hoc morally relativistic stance, not one based on hard erudition, which the Church prefers.

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These events need to be chalked up, if only to be reminded the next time the Church makes moral pronouncements against other groups.
Indeed. The romantic vision of the Catholic Church fostered during JPII needs to be dispelled. What we're seeing now with Benedict XVI has been, at the very least, everything that JPII believed too (as he was in a key position to determine morality even during the reign of JPII).
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