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Old 03-10-2009, 02:31 PM   #31
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And he cannot be excommunicated since he is a Protestant
Yeah well the Bishop figures he's already going to hell as it is.
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Old 03-10-2009, 06:08 PM   #32
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Where are the usual anti-choice people? The ones who are all about being the ones who decide if women and girls are allowed to reproduce or not?

I would think they might have something to say about this case.

Or is an unpleasant dose of reality making them as queasy as the rest of us?
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Old 03-10-2009, 07:02 PM   #33
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Yeah well the Bishop figures he's already going to hell as it is.
Why wink, it's true.
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Old 03-10-2009, 07:08 PM   #34
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Church excommunicates mother of 9-year-old rape victim – but not accused rapist

Church excommunicates mother of 9-year-old rape victim – but not accused rapist - World news, News - Belfasttelegraph.co.uk

Brazil rocked by abortion for raped child

Monday, 9 March 2009

Declaring that "life must always be protected", a senior Vatican cleric has defended the Catholic Church's decision to excommunicate the mother and doctors of a nine-year-old rape victim who had a life-saving abortion in Brazil.

Cardinal Giovanni Batista Re, who heads the Pontifical Commission for Latin America, told reporters that although the girl fell pregnant after apparently being abused by her stepfather, her twins had, "the right to live, and could not be eliminated".

In an interview with the Italian newspaper, La Stampa, the cardinal added: "It is a sad case but the real problem is that the twins conceived were two innocent persons. Life must always be protected."

Police believe the girl was sexually assaulted for years by her stepfather, possibly since she was six. That she was four months pregnant with twins emerged only after she was taken to hospital complaining of severe stomach pains.

The controversy represents a PR nightmare for the Vatican. The unnamed girl's mother and doctors were excommunicated for agreeing to Wednesday's emergency abortion yet the Church has not taken formal steps against the stepfather, who is in custody. Jose Cardoso Sobrinho, the conservative regional archbishop for Pernambuco where the girl was rushed to hospital, has said that the man would not be thrown out of the Church, because although he had allegedly committed "a heinous crime", the Church took the view that "the abortion, the elimination of an innocent life, was more serious".

The case has set off fierce debate in Brazil, where abortion is permitted only in cases of rape or a medical emergency. Brazil is one of the most populous Catholic countries, but conservative attitudes in rural areas are strongly at odds with the relatively progressive public view of abortion in major cities.

Even the President, Luiz Ignacio Lula da Silva, has waded into the row. "As a Christian and a Catholic, I deeply regret that a bishop of the Catholic Church has such a conservative attitude," he said "The doctors did what had to be done: save the life of a girl of nine years old. In this case, the medical profession was more right than the Church."

One of the doctors involved in the abortion, Rivaldo Albuquerque, has raised the prospect of public clashes at his local church, telling Globo, the nation's main TV network, that he would keep going to mass there, regardless of the archbishop's order. The young girl at the centre of the case escaped excommunication only because she is still a child in the eyes of Church authorities. The stepfather, who is 23, was arrested last week, apparently trying to escape to another region of the country. Police say he is also suspected of abusing the girl's handicapped 14-year-old sister. He is in protective custody, and if convicted faces up to 15 years in prison.


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Old 03-10-2009, 07:59 PM   #35
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And he cannot be excommunicated since he is a Protestant, not Catholic.
Where did you read this? I can't find any articles confirming it. I have though seen several articles with this quote:
Quote:
[Archbishop Cardoso Sobrinho] also said the accused stepfather would not be expelled from the church. Although the man allegedly committed "a heinous crime ... the abortion -- the elimination of an innocent life -- was more serious''.
And the same quote--which would seem to suggest that the stepfather is indeed at least nominally Catholic--is also referenced in the article trevster posted.
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Old 03-10-2009, 08:06 PM   #36
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I've read it in an article by Alexander Smoltczyk, a German reporter and columnist about all things Vatican, and a great critic as well, who said that most critics of the church leave that fact out. He relies on other newspaper articles.
I hope he is right, overwise I have to apologize for this misinformation.
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Old 03-10-2009, 08:20 PM   #37
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I want to see Bill Donohue speak out against all this anti-Catholic reporting.
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Old 03-10-2009, 08:23 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Vincent Vega View Post
I've read it in an article by Alexander Smoltczyk, a German reporter and columnist about all things Vatican, and a great critic as well, who said that most critics of the church leave that fact out. He relies on other newspaper articles.
I hope he is right, overwise I have to apologize for this misinformation.
Ah OK, I see it now.

If it's not too much trouble, would you mind translating this part of the article? The Web-based automatic translators are worthless as usual here.
Quote:
Denn erstens ist der Täter gar nicht katholisch, sondern ein Evangelikaler, und nach Medienberichten ein sehr gläubiger noch dazu. Und außerdem hätte sich der Mann auch kirchenrechtlich nicht schuldig gemacht. Denn er war an der Tötung werdenden Lebens nicht beteiligt, im Gegenteil, er war dagegen.

Anders offenbar als die Vergewaltigung einer Neunjährigen konnte er einen Schwangerschaftsabbruch nicht mit seinem Gewissen vereinbaren. Hat der Mann gesagt.
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Old 03-10-2009, 08:42 PM   #39
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It starts in the paragraph before:

Quote:
Nachdem am Mittwoch voriger Woche der Eingriff erfolgreich durchgeführt worden war, sprach der Erzbischof von einem "Verbrechen" und "Verstoß gegen die Gesetze Gottes" und exkommunizierte die Mutter des Mädchens, den Gynäkologen und weitere in den Fall involvierte Personen. Der Stiefvater wurde dagegen nicht exkommuniziert. Was manch einen wunderte. Besonders die üblichen Kritiker der katholischen Kirche. Aber das ist ungerecht.

Denn erstens ist der Täter gar nicht katholisch, sondern ein Evangelikaler, und nach Medienberichten ein sehr gläubiger noch dazu. Und außerdem hätte sich der Mann auch kirchenrechtlich nicht schuldig gemacht. Denn er war an der Tötung werdenden Lebens nicht beteiligt, im Gegenteil, er war dagegen.

Anders offenbar als die Vergewaltigung einer Neunjährigen konnte er einen Schwangerschaftsabbruch nicht mit seinem Gewissen vereinbaren. Hat der Mann gesagt.
"After the abortion was successfully performed the week before, the archbishop spoke of a "crime" and "violation of the law of God" and excommunicated the mother, the gynecologist as well as other people involved. However, the stepfather wasn't excommunicated; which left some wonder. Especially the usual critics of the church; but that is unfair.

First, the asshole (fitting translation for the word Täter I think) is not a Catholic, but an Evangelical, and according to some media reports a very firm believer at that. And he didn't act criminally according to canon law. After all, he was not involved in the murder of nascent life, to the contrary, he was against it.

Apparently differently from rape he could not arrange an abortion with his conscience. Said the man."

I'm never really good at translations. Hope it gets the point across.
It should be noted that Smoltczyk uses lots of irony and sarcasm, sometimes I would even say cynicism, in his articles.
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Old 03-11-2009, 02:09 AM   #40
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This story highlights the problematic stance with being against abortion except in the case of rape or when the mother's life is in danger. Those making the loudest noise here are lawyers and the church. Besides all of this, frequently doctors will have differing opinions on medical cases, so who can make a decision on a nine year old rape victim? God? A priest? A lawyer? A doctor? The nine year old? Differing medical opinions aside, it is not a stretch to see that a nine year old's uterus is too immature to carry such a pregnancy, and yet, they argue. It's not practical to be half against abortion.
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Old 03-11-2009, 08:04 AM   #41
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Jose Cardoso Sobrinho, the conservative regional archbishop for Pernambuco where the girl was rushed to hospital, has said that the man would not be thrown out of the Church, because although he had allegedly committed "a heinous crime", the Church took the view that "the abortion, the elimination of an innocent life, was more serious".

Wow, that's disturbing. So now abortion is a bigger crime than rape?

I'm glad the rest of the country disagrees with this nutjob!
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And if U2 EVER did Hawkmoon live....and the version from the Lovetown Tour, my uterus would leave my body and fling itself at Bono - for realz.
Don't worry baby, it's gonna be all right. Uncertainty can be a guiding light...
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Old 03-11-2009, 08:12 AM   #42
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I consider murder worse than rape.
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Old 03-11-2009, 09:06 AM   #43
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wink

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I consider murder worse than rape.
Ofcourse murder is bad. But at least the victim won't suffer anymore after that.

Rape victims carry their scars for the rest of their life. A rapist ruins someone's life completely, and that of them around. A murdered ruins the life of people related to the victim.
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And if U2 EVER did Hawkmoon live....and the version from the Lovetown Tour, my uterus would leave my body and fling itself at Bono - for realz.
Don't worry baby, it's gonna be all right. Uncertainty can be a guiding light...
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Old 03-11-2009, 07:14 PM   #44
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I consider murder worse than rape.
Always, or just generally?
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Old 03-12-2009, 04:30 AM   #45
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By the way, just to add, I've no clue where that above my last post came from. It's not supposed to be there.
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And if U2 EVER did Hawkmoon live....and the version from the Lovetown Tour, my uterus would leave my body and fling itself at Bono - for realz.
Don't worry baby, it's gonna be all right. Uncertainty can be a guiding light...
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