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Old 03-08-2009, 03:36 PM   #16
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The girl shouldnt suffer because of her evil step-father. You could take the view that 2 lives (babies) would outweigh the 1 of the child, but hell, thats like saying an eye for an eye. Nothing good comes from either situation, but if the potential twins arnt going to have a good life, and potential medical issues, why ruin 3 lives?
I think if they would've forced the girl to complete the pregnancy it would've been 3 lives lost. Those two babies cannot fully grow in a 9 year old girl's body. Either one of them dies early and the other might narrowly survive, or both get either born dead or, more likely, get miscarried when they start getting too big for the uterus.
And even if they would fully grow, there's the big chance the mother dies while giving birth. And to be honest, if it was me in that situation, I think that I would actually prefer dying at that point, rather than going into puberty raising two children that I got being raped by my stepfather.
That's not a life, that's hell on earth.

I think it's a good thing these people are excommunicated. The less loonies together, the better. I do not want to insult anyone who believes, but some people are taking this too far. WAY too far.
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And if U2 EVER did Hawkmoon live....and the version from the Lovetown Tour, my uterus would leave my body and fling itself at Bono - for realz.
Don't worry baby, it's gonna be all right. Uncertainty can be a guiding light...
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Old 03-08-2009, 05:02 PM   #17
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The people excommunicated are the mother of the child and the doctors, i.e. all the people involved in the abortion. Not the father.

The archbishop didn't excommunicate the loonies (doesn't take himself out, apparently).
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Old 03-09-2009, 06:25 AM   #18
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Wow. That makes even less sense.

So why wasn't the father excommunicated? Do they consider what he did normal? That there's nothing wrong with it? Completely fitting within the Catholic faith?
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And if U2 EVER did Hawkmoon live....and the version from the Lovetown Tour, my uterus would leave my body and fling itself at Bono - for realz.
Don't worry baby, it's gonna be all right. Uncertainty can be a guiding light...
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Old 03-09-2009, 06:38 AM   #19
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That's why the whole story became such an issue in the first place.
The archbishop admitted that what the father did was not right, but for him not reason to kick his butt out the church. Instead, he took issue with taking the life of these innocent unborn. The fate of the "mother" was not that relevant to him.
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Old 03-09-2009, 06:39 AM   #20
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Hypocrit.

Ah well, I guess we'll just have to hope that people who think as sickly as this guy will be extinct someday.
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And if U2 EVER did Hawkmoon live....and the version from the Lovetown Tour, my uterus would leave my body and fling itself at Bono - for realz.
Don't worry baby, it's gonna be all right. Uncertainty can be a guiding light...
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Old 03-10-2009, 01:11 AM   #21
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More Filipinos question birth-control taboo
A bill to provide contraception is the first to reach House debate in this largely Roman Catholic country.


By Jonathan Adams
Christian Science Monitor, March 10


QUEZON CITY, PHILIPPINES -- The battle over a ground-breaking reproductive health bill is heating up in the Philippines, a country where the influential Roman Catholic Church's opposition to artificial birth control has long held sway. A measure to provide government-funded family planning, contraceptives, and sex education has made its way onto the House floor for debate--the furthest any such draft legislation has ever reached.

...Backers of the bill say it's needed to prevent illegal abortions and help curb poverty by addressing overpopulation. But the church sees artificial birth control as immoral and has long prevented any efforts to provide government funding for such methods. It only supports "natural" birth control, such as the "rhythm method," by which women avoid having sex on the most fertile days of their monthly cycle. The church's allies warn that the bill could be a first step toward the legalization of abortion. A small group of them is holding up the bill in questioning on the House floor. Mr. Lagman and other sponsors hope to clear that hurdle when Congress comes back from break in mid-April.

About 81% of the Philippines' 96 million people are Catholics. In theory, they're bound to obey church leaders' authority. But a Pulse Asia poll conducted last fall found that 63% support the reproductive health bill, with 8% opposing (the rest were undecided)...The bill received support from a surprising quarter last fall: 69 professors at the prestigious Roman Catholic Ateneo de Manila University broke with their own church to sign an unusual open letter backing the legislation. In an interview in December, two of the professors said the bill would put the Philippines in line with other predominantly Roman Catholic countries, including Italy, Ireland, and Mexico. "We're the last Catholic country that hasn't allowed contraceptives and family planning of all kinds, systematically," said Mary Racelis, who is in the department of sociology and anthropology. "What's happening in our country is that women go for abortions because they don't have access to forms of contraception," added Marita Castro Guevara, from the department of interdisciplinary studies.

The bill's proponents cite data showing that as many as 500,000 women have illegal abortions in the Philippines each year, with some 80,000 going to the hospital due to complications. They say the bill would reduce abortions by providing better access to family planning resources...Although the bill doesn't fund abortion, its opponents are pushing a "slippery slope" argument. Last month, former Sen. Francisco Tatad argued that many developing countries that legalized abortion started by funding and promoting artificial contraception, the Philippine Star reported.

If the bill passes both houses, it would go to the desk of President Macapagal-Arroyo. Observers say they expect her to let it "lapse" into law, neither signing nor vetoing it. The president, herself a Roman Catholic, has said she has used birth control pills in the past--and later went to church confession about it. But as president, she's publicly toed the church's line on the issue, supporting "natural" family planning.
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Old 03-10-2009, 01:51 AM   #22
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I can only assume that we don't have any real Catholics in FYM.
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Old 03-10-2009, 09:07 AM   #23
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Makes you wonder even how many real Catholics there are in Catholic church communities. Whatever real Catholic means. I doubt the majority of any congregation faithfully follows all the teachings of its church, whatever the denomination.

As long as no one acknowledges or talks about it, it's all good. When there is wide open debate or disregard, the rules change. The Bible however, stays the same. Funny that.

Prior to the rise of ethical investing, the Vatican invested heavily in the pharmaceutical industry including companies producing birth control.
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Old 03-10-2009, 10:44 AM   #24
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This archbishop is sick minded. He cares more for the rules of the church than human rights. A nine year old pregnant with twins due to rape deserves an abortion. Her body can't handle it! It may kill her or something.

Some people need to be more Christ-like than church-like.
I agree with Pearl. A nine year old child could die from this pregnancy and/or delivery. Her womb is not strong enough. Plus, this poor innocent was raped.
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Old 03-10-2009, 11:00 AM   #25
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I can only assume that we don't have any real Catholics in FYM.
I am Catholic and I agree with the medical decision of an abortion. The victim was a nine year old child who was raped. The pregnancy could have killed her. The mother's life must be saved at all cost.

In the U.S. This little girl would not have been ex-communicated from any Catholic Church. And her father would have been turned over to the police. The Catholic Parish I attend, has zero tolerance towards rape and/or child abuse.
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Old 03-10-2009, 12:15 PM   #26
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Well, the father is in custody. And I don't think that it's entirely impossible in any other country in the world to have an archbishop who would act as differently. It might be more unlikely in countries such as the US as the church doesn't have such a firm standing here and the bishops are more aware of the possible backlashes.
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Old 03-10-2009, 12:42 PM   #27
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Oy. So this nine year old should have been forced to die in order to preserve two babies who would likely have also died? Why does this work for a 'real' Catholic? It was a medical intervention to save her LIFE. Do you really think that these babies' lives are so sacred that they should be allowed to kill that child?

Frankly, I don't. Nope. Not under any circumstances. And we're not even going to discuss the awfulness of a child who has been raped at nine, and gotten pregnant at nine. How must this girl be hurting right now? And her mother? Now is when they need support from the church, not excommunication. That can't have been an easy situation for any of them.

But then, churches aren't known for their ability to understand the psychology of what really happens when a woman has an abortion. Most women do not like having them, only do it when they can see no other choice -- pregnancy is expensive, medically and emotionally. And so is abortion. Most women do it once and never do it again.
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Old 03-10-2009, 12:55 PM   #28
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I've read the father started raping her when she was six. Frankly, this girl has gone through hell for so long. Then there comes the archbishop and says, "Your life is worthless, those of the two unborns is the only thing that counts." I think you can't have it worse.
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Old 03-10-2009, 02:03 PM   #29
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I hope that if the archbishop is right and there is a God, that he is judged according to the manner in which he passed judgment while on earth.

Mostly I just think he'll turn into compost.
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Old 03-10-2009, 02:19 PM   #30
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Just read, it was the stepfather. In other articles he was referred to as the father. And he cannot be excommunicated since he is a Protestant, not Catholic. Doesn't justify the actions of the archbishop at all, in my opinion, but it's an explanation why he wasn't excommunicated.
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