8.9 magnitude quake hits japan

The friendliest place on the web for anyone that follows U2.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
Japan are better prepared for a mega-earthquake than anyone else on earth. They run regular nation-wide drills. Prime Minister on television in a construction helmet and all.

I've seen a few articles/broadcasts highlighting just how amazing the response and reaction has been. Incredibly organised, smooth, efficient response from authorities (I saw one shot of what must have been dozens of fire trucks in convoy, apparently within a couple of hours of the quake - all according to plan) and a completely calm and composed population. Of course there's a limit to just how prepared you can be for something of this magnitude, but they're probably about as close as we (humans) can ever get, until we can accurately predict exactly where and when they're going to hit anyway.

In Tokyo at the moment a lot of services (such as transport) are still completely haywire, and the nuclear issue is uncomfortably close. Some news agency reported on 'panic' in the city, and this prompted a huge response on the Guardian website from Westerners in Tokyo, who are saying it is the exact opposite and that reporting otherwise was completely wrong and unfair. It's totally calm. Shops are open. There's food on the shelves. Some things are a bit manic - like trains - but they always are to some degree. One guy said that the dude showed up today, as pre-earthquake scheduled, to fit blinds at his place. He wasn't expecting that. And there are standard roadworks going on in his street. Its not 'normal', but its pretty close. That's amazing.
 
Well, there's also voices which give a hint of some dwelling concerns, such as this:
Auch die Klagen über eine mangelhafte Informationspolitik werden lauter, der Ton schriller: "Das wird ganz schlimm. Aber die Behörden berichten nicht richtig. Die sagen uns nicht, was wirklich ist. Die belügen uns. Wir alle haben solche Angst", sagt Kiyoko Yoshimura aus Tokio verzweifelt Reportern der Nachrichtenagentur dpa. "Viele fliehen mit ihren kleinen Kindern, wer die Möglichkeit hat, geht in den Süden", sagt sie. "Ich bin in Sorge um meine Enkel, die sollen nicht verstrahlt werden." Man versuche, Normalität vorzugaukeln. "Es wird alles getan, um keine Panik auszulösen. Im Kindergarten nebenan soll es morgen ein großes Fest geben." Auch ihre Freundin Tomoko kritisiert: "Es wird nicht korrekt informiert."
Source: Spiegel (German news magazine)

This woman, from Tokyo, complains about a general lack of information and incorrect information by the officials: "This is gonna be very bad. But the officials are not reporting correctly. They don't tell us what's really going on. They lie to us. We are very scared. Many are fleeing with their small children. Who can goes south. I'm anxious about my grandchildren. They mustn't be contaminated. They are doing everything to prevent panic. In the kindergarten next door a big fest is planned for tomorrow."
Her friend confirms: "They are not informing us correctly."

The article goes on that a growing anxiety and panic can be sensed, especially now that news are being spread about what to do against radiation etc. They also quoted two survivors of the nuclear bombs who said public officials and Tepco are not being honest about the danger and the consequences and are trying to downplay the risk.
Many Japanese, according to the article, seem very calm on the outside, but that's more to do with them generally showing less emotion and the fear of "losing face".
I hope that the people there can maintain their calm nonetheless, and the big catastrophe be averted.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPDA4jFHZb8&feature=player_embedded
 
i do believe that japanese officials downplayed the nuclear reactor story at first... but i can't really blame them, considering the sensitivity over the particular subject, and the fact that the country was already facing a disaster of epic proportions... they didn't feel the need to drop a third catastrophe in there until they were absolutely sure. might not have been the best way of doing it, but i understand why.


overall when you look at the relative order of things in japan, and contrast it to, say, haiti... well, needless to say japan is much more prepared and the people are handling a just horrific situation as well as they possibly can.
 
I agree, I wouldn't want to swap places with authorities there. It's very difficult to control the flow of information, which you need so people won't be bombarded with all kinds of fatal news at once in order to control the situation. Yet, the people are well aware of things going on so that it's always a very delicate matter, especially in societies where people are not used to being kept in the dark.
It is to be hoped that the situation can be kept under control and a meltdown be prevented.
Overall the Japanese response has certainly prevented things from being worse, and that's also thanks to the great precautions undertaken in all these years. In Japan, especially Tokyo, they've known for so long that it's just a matter of time until the next major quake happens.
It will take a few decades until countries such as Haiti are in a position to prepare their people in a way that is even remotely similiar to Japan, but seeing as many developing nations are facing at least some kind of natural disaster possibility this would be yet another area to develop measures.
 
How come the computer predictions on TV and in papers for both waves and possible nuclear radiation leakage spread all the way to America but not down to Australia? Do you know what I'm saying? Like there were people washed out by waves in Cali, but not here?
 
How come the computer predictions on TV and in papers for both waves and possible nuclear radiation leakage spread all the way to America but not down to Australia? Do you know what I'm saying? Like there were people washed out by waves in Cali, but not here?


the jet stream goes west to east, not north to south.
 
I don't know about radiation leakage maps specific to this incident; there's a bogus one floating around out there showing a color-coded teardrop-shaped plume moving towards the US, I read about that, but haven't seen any others. That one's a hoax. But like Irvine said, wind patterns determine how a radiation cloud spreads.

I think large tsunamis generated off Japan almost always cause more damage to the US West Coast than they do to Australia. The position relative to the originating fault and strike-line, and the topography of the surrounding seafloor, are the main determinants of how a tsunami spreads.
 
New York Times, Mar. 15
Last Defense at Troubled Reactors: 50 Japanese Workers


A small crew of technicians, braving radiation and fire, became the only people remaining at the Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Station on Tuesday—and perhaps Japan’s last chance of preventing a broader nuclear catastrophe. They crawl through labyrinths of equipment in utter darkness pierced only by their flashlights, listening for periodic explosions as hydrogen gas escaping from crippled reactors ignites on contact with air. They breathe through uncomfortable respirators or carry heavy oxygen tanks on their backs. They wear white, full-body jumpsuits with snug-fitting hoods that provide scant protection from the invisible radiation sleeting through their bodies.

They are the faceless 50, the unnamed operators who stayed behind. They have volunteered, or been assigned, to pump seawater on dangerously exposed nuclear fuel, already thought to be partly melting and spewing radioactive material, to prevent full meltdowns that could throw thousands of tons of radioactive dust high into the air and imperil millions of their compatriots. They struggled on Tuesday and Wednesday to keep hundreds of gallons of seawater a minute flowing through temporary fire pumps into the three stricken reactors, Nos. 1, 2 and 3. Among the many problems they faced was what appeared to be yet another fire at the plant.

The workers are being asked to make escalating—and perhaps existential—sacrifices that so far are being only implicitly acknowledged: Japan’s Health Ministry said Tuesday it was raising the legal limit on the amount of radiation to which each worker could be exposed, to 250 millisieverts from 100 millisieverts, five times the maximum exposure permitted for American nuclear plant workers. The change means that workers can now remain on site longer, the ministry said. “It would be unthinkable to raise it further than that, considering the health of the workers,” the health minister, Yoko Komiyama, said at a news conference.

Tokyo Electric Power, the plant’s operator, has said almost nothing at all about the workers, including how long a worker is expected to endure exposure. The few details Tokyo Electric has made available paint a dire picture. Five workers have died since the earthquake and 22 more have been injured for various reasons, while two are missing. One worker was hospitalized after suddenly grasping his chest and finding himself unable to stand, and another needed treatment after receiving a blast of radiation near a damaged reactor. Eleven workers were injured in a hydrogen explosion at reactor No. 3.

Nuclear reactor operators say that their profession is typified by the same kind of esprit de corps found among firefighters and elite military units. Lunchroom conversations at reactors frequently turn to what operators would do in a severe emergency. The consensus is always that they would warn their families to flee before staying at their posts to the end, said Michael Friedlander, a former senior operator at three American power plants for a total of 13 years. “You’re certainly worried about the health and safety of your family, but you have an obligation to stay at the facility,” he said. “There is a sense of loyalty and camaraderie when you’ve trained with guys, you’ve done shifts with them for years.” Adding to this natural bonding, jobs in Japan confer identity, command loyalty and inspire a particularly fervent kind of dedication. Economic straits have chipped away at the hallowed idea of lifetime employment for many Japanese, but the workplace remains a potent source of community. Mr. Friedlander said that he had no doubt that in an identical accident in the United States, 50 volunteers could be found to stay behind after everyone else evacuated from an extremely hazardous environment. But Japanese are raised to believe that individuals sacrifice for the good of the group.

...Daiichi is not synonymous with Chernobyl in terms of the severity of contamination. The Ukrainian reactor blew up and spewed huge amounts of radiation for 10 days in 1986. But workers at the plants have a bond. Among plant employees and firefighters at Chernobyl, many volunteered to try to tame, and then entomb, the burning reactor—although it is not clear that all were told the truth about the risks. Within three months, 28 of them died from radiation exposure. At least 19 of them were killed by infections that resulted from having large areas of their skin burned off by radiation, according to a recent report by a United Nations scientific committee. And 106 others developed radiation sickness, with nausea, vomiting, diarrhea and dropping blood counts that left them highly vulnerable to infections. The people who had suffered radiation sickness developed other problems later, according to the report: cataracts, severe scarring from the radiation burns to their skin and an increased number of deaths from leukemia and other blood cancers. Some of those Chernobyl workers were exposed to levels of radiation far beyond what has been measured to date at Daiichi—especially helicopter pilots who flew through radiation-laden smoke spewing from the reactor to drop fire-extinguishing chemicals on it.

Radiation close to the reactors was reported to reach 400 millisieverts per hour on Tuesday after a blast inside reactor No. 2 and fire at reactor No. 4, but has since dropped back to as low as 0.6 millisieverts at the plant gate. Tokyo Electric and Japanese regulators have not released any statistics on radiation levels inside the containment buildings where engineers are desperately trying to fix electrical systems, pumps and other gear wrecked by Friday’s earthquake and tsunami. But nuclear experts said that indoor radiation levels were likely to be higher because the containment buildings were probably still preventing most radiation from leaving the plant.

The site is now so contaminated with radiation, experts say, that it has become difficult for employees to work near the reactors for extended periods of time. According to one expert’s account of nuclear emergency procedures, workers would be cycled in and out of the worst-hit parts of the plant. In some cases, when dealing with a task in a highly radioactive area of the plant, workers might line up and handle the task only for minutes at a time before passing off to the next worker, said Katsuhiko Ishibashi, a former professor in the Research Center for Urban Safety and Security at Kobe University. Tokyo Electric has refused to release the names or any other information about the 50 workers who stayed behind, nor have utility executives said anything about how they are being relieved as they become tired or ill.

...If the plant operator is strictly limiting the exposure of each worker at Daiichi—and thus calling on hundreds of volunteers to make up the 50 on site at any given time—then Chernobyl may offer some consolation. To clean up the Chernobyl site after the accident, the Soviet Union conscripted workers in proportion to the size of each of its republics, and developed a system to limit their exposure. “They sent up to 600,000 people in to clean up the radioactive debris around the plant and build a sarcophagus,” said Dr. John Boice, an author of the study, a professor of medicine at Vanderbilt and the scientific director of the International Epidemiology Institute in Rockvillle, Md. The workers, known as “liquidators,” were sent into contaminated zones for limited periods. “To date there’s very little evidence for adverse effects,” Dr. Boice said. “It was pretty smart. A large number of people got a relatively small dose. There may be a small risk of leukemia, but that’s not conclusive.”
Wow.
 
I've not heard of a tsunami ever actually striking Saipan, the island where I lived for 11 years (though we had plenty of warnings), even though the island is only about a three hour flight south of Japan. I heard they got a two foot wave this last time, but no damage that I heard about it. There was some whirlpool effect I guess on Saturday morning during the XTerra Triathalon that was problematic for the swimmers, but that was it.
 
U2inUtah said:
Here's a really cool website showing pictures of the Chernobyl exclusion zone, incuding the abandoned city of Pripyat, as it looks today.

KIDDofSPEED - GHOST TOWN - Chernobyl Pictures - Kidofspeed - Elena

Wow... crazy how the exclusion zone still applies today, I would have thought the radiation would dissipate with time? Does this mean that people will never be able to return to within 30kms of the Fukushima plant?
 
Wow... crazy how the exclusion zone still applies today, I would have thought the radiation would dissipate with time? Does this mean that people will never be able to return to within 30kms of the Fukushima plant?

The half-life period for caesium-137 is about 30.5 years. The fallout will be absorbed by plants and other organic matter. Like in Chernobyl, you would be able to go there after a couple years, but you should not touch anything or dig in the dust.
 
Red dots should not look that frightening. My god...I felt a weird urge to want to go in and try and get rid of them the way you try to get rid of a bug infestation. I saw a Google Earth image this past weekend on the Weather Channel, a before and after snapshot of Japan, and the difference was eerie. The "after" photo looked so desolate. It was fascinating in the absolute worst way possible.

Such a horrific situation. To all those in the area who've reported in, so glad you're all right, and Thora, I hope to every deity imaginable that the girl you mentioned you knew is all right as well. My thoughts go out to everyone who is suffering through this nightmare, I just can't even imagine...

And the talk of all the nuclear stuff terrifies and depresses the ever-loving shit out of me. I've been watching the news the last couple nights a bit and they talk about it, and at the end I feel really, really numb and deeply scared. How the people in Japan are remaining so calm about all this, I do not know.

As for that link about the inane Pearl Harbor bullshit...

It still surprises me that I am surprised how stupid people can be.

Ugh. Yes :sigh:. I mean, in a way I'm not surprised, but still...for Christ's sake, people, use your brains.

Angela
 
Just got a hold of my former host family from when I stayed in Japan in 2005. I don't know why it just occurred to me that I could use Facebook to contact them :doh:. My host sister says they're all fine, but they may have to evacuate :(. I'm just glad to know they're well.
 
I finally just got word about one of the families I know in Sendai. Their immediate family is ok, although everyone she knows have lost people. They feel lucky because she thought for sure they were going to die. Their home is seriously damaged. They had no power up til now. The worst thing though, is that she says they have now run out of food. :( It feels awful not being able to do something for them. Unfortunately she has not heard from the other family we know in Sendai.
 
I'm glad the people you guys know are all right, relatively speaking, though I'm sorry to hear about the surrounding circumstances involving them all :(.

bonocomet, even if you can't send food directly I'm sure there's got to be some other way to help. If nothing else, at least, being a supportive, concerned friend is definitely something they could use. Have you gotten a chance to look at any aid or donation things or something? I do understand the feeling of helplessness, though.

Angela
 
U2, Rihanna featured on new album to aid Japan | Entertainment | Reuters

LONDON (Reuters) - Irish rockers U2 and pop star Rihanna are among the artists expected to be featured on a digital-only album being rushed out by Universal Music to raise funds for Japanese quake and tsunami victims.

The world's biggest record label aims to make the album available by the end of the week, although the lineup of artists has yet to be finalized. Proceeds will go to the Japanese Red Cross, a spokesman for the group said on Monday.

"We are doing it only digitally because it is faster, and this will be a worldwide release. The plan is to have it available later this week," he added.

Key to the album's success will be finding more major acts willing to waive their royalties on the song appearing on the record.

Lady Gaga, also part of the Universal stable, may be one of the stars tapped to contribute to the album, having already raised money for the victims of Japan's recent natural disasters by selling a special wristband
 
have they been reporting about the radioactive plume passing west to east across the pacific, US and atlantic?? apparently it is reaching Europe today but they claiming there is no risk to human health

in the US, were you advised to stay indoors or anything over the past few days?

here's a simulation from the french nuclear safety institute

http://www.irsn.fr/FR/popup/Pages/irsn-meteo-france_19mars.aspx
 
I'm glad the people you guys know are all right, relatively speaking, though I'm sorry to hear about the surrounding circumstances involving them all :(.

bonocomet, even if you can't send food directly I'm sure there's got to be some other way to help. If nothing else, at least, being a supportive, concerned friend is definitely something they could use. Have you gotten a chance to look at any aid or donation things or something? I do understand the feeling of helplessness, though.

Angela

Thank you Angela :hug:
 
very worrying indeed... i just don't understand why they haven't encased the plant in sand and concrete yet?!?! wtf are they waiting for?


Japanese nuclear officials fear crack in reactor core
Possible damage at Fukushima nuclear power plant could cause leak of high levels of radiation

Justin McCurry in Tokyo
guardian.co.uk, Friday 25 March 2011 09.12 GMT

Nuclear safety officials in Japan fear the core of a reactor at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant may have cracked, causing a leak of high levels of radiation.

Growing uncertainty over the state of the stricken reactor prompted the government to tell people living within a 12-19 mile (20-30km) radius of the plant to consider leaving their homes temporarily.

The government's chief spokesman, Yukio Edano, said 130,000 residents in the area had been encouraged to leave to improve their quality of life, not because their health was at risk.

The nuclear emergency, 150 miles north of Tokyo, has caused severe disruption to business, supply routes and other services in the area.

On Thursday, three workers were exposed to radiation after stepping in contaminated water in the turbine building of the No 3 reactor. They were trying to cool the crippled reactor when the accident occurred.

"The contaminated water had 10,000 times the amount of radiation as would be found in water circulating from a normally operating reactor," said Hidehiko Nishiyama, a spokesman for Japan's nuclear safety agency. "It is possible that there is damage to the reactor."

Two of the men received possible beta ray burns to their legs. All three have been transferred to a special radiation treatment facility.

Edano said the source of the leak remained unknown. "We are exploring every possibility, but we don't think this is a new situation, rather that a certain amount of radiation may have leaked from the reactor. This is a possibility that we have been mentioning for some time.

"But at this point we don't know if the radiation is coming from the reactor itself or from another source."

Nuclear officials say the leak may have come from pipes or the reactor's pool for storing spent fuel rods, which workers have been struggling to cool off since the plant was badly damaged in the 11 March earthquake and tsunami.

Officials were preparing themselves for the possibility that the reactor core was damaged in an explosion three days after the disaster that destroyed its containment building. The reactor contains 170 tonnes of radioactive fuel in its core, and is the only one of the facility's six reactors that contains the potentially more dangerous plutonium-uranium mixed oxide fuel.

Thursday's accident forced a temporary halt to work on two reactors while technicians check radiation levels.

"We should try to avoid delays if at all possible, but we also need to ensure that the people working there are safe," Nishiyama said.
 
very worrying indeed... i just don't understand why they haven't encased the plant in sand and concrete yet?!?! wtf are they waiting for?

From what I've heard it's still just too hot. I guess if you encase the cores in concrete while they are still very hot, it insulates them. Then, if any water/moisture gets in, there can be a steam explosion.


I heard on the radio yesterday that because the power plant is run by a private corporation, they hesitated in pumping saltwater on the cores because they knew that would ruin the plant. I guess they thought they could try and keep it viable as a power plant (until reality set in). :angry:
 
I don't want my sushi microwaved from the inside:

Japan Frantically Tries To Trace Radioactive Water In Pacific Ocean

The plant operators also deliberately dumped 10,000 tons of tainted water – measuring about 500 times above the legal limit for radiactivity – into the ocean Monday to make space at a storage site for water that is even more highly radiactive.


Oh well, nothing to worry about then:

Radiation safety: What you should know – The Chart - CNN.com Blogs

It's true that radioactive particles from a nuclear disaster like this do get into the food supply, but so far there's no indication that there's cause for alarm. The particles emitted from the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant bind to dust, which is how they travel through the air and eventually fall on the ground, according to CNN's chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

And how about what that water might do to fish? If you're still craving sushi, it seems that, unlike after the Gulf oil disaster, there isn't as much concern about the safety of fish from Japan, Eatocracy reports. Fishing in the prefectures near to the nuclear plant - Fukushima, Miyagi and Iwate - has been suspended since the March 11 earthquake and tsunami, which makes it less likely that tainted fish will reach the market.

:doh: Sure.
 
Fish is known not to migrate, especially tuna. (After some deliberation: :wink: )

On the upside, very good additional reason to stop eating red tuna and blue-fin tuna before it's entirely gone extinct. :)
 
Back
Top Bottom