$700 Billion - To Bail or Not to Bail...That is the question - Page 2 - U2 Feedback

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Old 09-24-2008, 09:38 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by sue4u2 View Post
I don't think it's the loan or bail out, if you will that bothers most people - that are paying attention, as long as they pull out the part of it that states:


Dirty Secret Of The Bailout: Thirty-Two Words That None Dare Utter

I don't want this monster going through without the proper oversight and bipartisan review going along with it.
No more blank checks for this administration or Wall Street. They can't handle their money as it is, and I can't afford to bail out ANYONE, thank you very much.
Exactly. This is exactly what happened before the Iraq invasion. Congress and the American people were not given access or the ability to review the intelligence much of which contradicted the Bush administrations public claims. We all know how that turned out. The brazen corruption of these people is unbelievable.
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Old 09-24-2008, 09:44 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by sue4u2 View Post
I don't think it's the loan or bail out, if you will that bothers most people - that are paying attention, as long as they pull out the part of it that states:


Dirty Secret Of The Bailout: Thirty-Two Words That None Dare Utter

I don't want this monster going through without the proper oversight and bipartisan review going along with it.
No more blank checks for this administration or Wall Street. They can't handle their money as it is, and I can't afford to bail out ANYONE, thank you very much.
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Old 09-24-2008, 09:59 PM   #18
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I watched Bush just a few minutes ago trying to scare the hell out of the masses to pass this immediately. I read earlier that Dick Cheney and Henry Paulsen went into a closed door meeting with leading Republicans to squelch the rhetoric coming from some Republicans about their dislike of this plan.
According to the report, Dick and Henry came out much worse off than they though they would. In other words, they tried to bully Republican leaders into going along with this, as is, and they wouldn't. My own Senator, Rep. Richard Shelby is completely against this and has gone on TV saying so. He has an actual plan for the oversight of the monies, as well as a great deal of other people.
That gives me hope, that if this bail out must be done, the tax payers won't be footing the entire bill.
Bush & Dick need to stop trying to bully and scare people.
Just work this out, dammit
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Old 09-24-2008, 10:01 PM   #19
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i never post in fym anymore but i'm giving it a shot

this whole thing angers me so much. i guess it's because i personally know someone who bought a house that's too big and too expensive for them (i'm not judging, my friend has told me they HAVE to have two roommates for them to pay their mortgage. when they don't, they can't afford anything) thanks to the housing bubble. maybe it's because i'm not sure if i'd ever want to own a house, but i just am so stunned how many people bought a huge house hoping they could refinance later, or didn't bother seeing their adjustable rate mortgage would go up in a few years to something they couldn't afford.

thanks to the bubble being burst, there are huge homes that are available for rent in this city because no one can sell their house. we could afford (and want to) move to a bigger house but can't because we couldn't sell this one unless we lost our shirts.

i don't think this is a good fix at all, to just hand over the money. i know something has to be done, but i just think it's such a knee-jerk reaction, and i don't appreciate mccain pressuring everyone to make a decision omgrightnowcomeondosomething. suspending his campaign to work on this? wtf. maybe i'm incredibly naive and not knowing about the economy, but i don't think we'll have some huge collapse if we just wait even a week for this to be discussed. and like sue said, bush isn't helping by scaring people. isn't that going to make it worse? i couldn't even watch the whole thing, i was so disgusted.
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Old 09-24-2008, 10:24 PM   #20
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maybe i'm incredibly naive and not knowing about the economy, but i don't think we'll have some huge collapse if we just wait even a week for this to be discussed.
I know, I had a strange sense of deja vu.
I'm a bit naive about the economics of all of this it too, but what I do know - for all intents and purposes it has already crashed.
Another week or so to be sure we aren't screwed even more and to make sure it's done right, it's what has to be done.
Even at that, It's not even guaranteed to fix the problem.
I'm not a conspiracy theorist type of person, but I almost feel like this is a financial overthrow of the US government. Or this administration is trying to bilk us out of everything it can before it leave office. Even at the expense of it's own party totally loosing face.
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Old 09-24-2008, 10:50 PM   #21
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Anyone want to give me a quick run-down of what our "fearless leader" said in his terror-inducing, shitfest tonight? I'm at the point where I can no longer listen to him speak for more than 30 seconds.
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Old 09-24-2008, 11:07 PM   #22
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Anyone want to give me a quick run-down of what our "fearless leader" said in his terror-inducing, shitfest tonight? I'm at the point where I can no longer listen to him speak for more than 30 seconds.
He's just caused a panic of the already panicked.
Let me put it this way.. If I had any money in the bank, I'd be at the ATM pulling it out. Unless you pass this proposal without any strings.
You won't be able to get a loan, send your kids to college, your bank will fail and small businesses will not be able to get help to succeed. Jobs will be lost and it will be a long and painful recession.
You know everything that basically been going on all along with the exception of the priviledged few.
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Old 09-24-2008, 11:45 PM   #23
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I'm going to implore everybody to read this piece by Paul Krugman. He's brilliant but beyond that he's written a piece that I think is understandable and accessible to people who don't really get what's going on.

Quote:
So let’s try to think this through for ourselves. I have a four-step view of the financial crisis:

1. The bursting of the housing bubble has led to a surge in defaults and foreclosures, which in turn has led to a plunge in the prices of mortgage-backed securities — assets whose value ultimately comes from mortgage payments.

2. These financial losses have left many financial institutions with too little capital — too few assets compared with their debt. This problem is especially severe because everyone took on so much debt during the bubble years.

3. Because financial institutions have too little capital relative to their debt, they haven’t been able or willing to provide the credit the economy needs.

4. Financial institutions have been trying to pay down their debt by selling assets, including those mortgage-backed securities, but this drives asset prices down and makes their financial position even worse. This vicious circle is what some call the “paradox of deleveraging.”

The Paulson plan calls for the federal government to buy up $700 billion worth of troubled assets, mainly mortgage-backed securities. How does this resolve the crisis?

Well, it might — might — break the vicious circle of deleveraging, step 4 in my capsule description. Even that isn’t clear: the prices of many assets, not just those the Treasury proposes to buy, are under pressure. And even if the vicious circle is limited, the financial system will still be crippled by inadequate capital.

Or rather, it will be crippled by inadequate capital unless the federal government hugely overpays for the assets it buys, giving financial firms — and their stockholders and executives — a giant windfall at taxpayer expense. Did I mention that I’m not happy with this plan?

The logic of the crisis seems to call for an intervention, not at step 4, but at step 2: the financial system needs more capital. And if the government is going to provide capital to financial firms, it should get what people who provide capital are entitled to — a share in ownership, so that all the gains if the rescue plan works don’t go to the people who made the mess in the first place.

That’s what happened in the savings and loan crisis: the feds took over ownership of the bad banks, not just their bad assets. It’s also what happened with Fannie and Freddie. (And by the way, that rescue has done what it was supposed to. Mortgage interest rates have come down sharply since the federal takeover.)

But Mr. Paulson insists that he wants a “clean” plan. “Clean,” in this context, means a taxpayer-financed bailout with no strings attached — no quid pro quo on the part of those being bailed out. Why is that a good thing? Add to this the fact that Mr. Paulson is also demanding dictatorial authority, plus immunity from review “by any court of law or any administrative agency,” and this adds up to an unacceptable proposal.

I’m aware that Congress is under enormous pressure to agree to the Paulson plan in the next few days, with at most a few modifications that make it slightly less bad. Basically, after having spent a year and a half telling everyone that things were under control, the Bush administration says that the sky is falling, and that to save the world we have to do exactly what it says now now now.

But I’d urge Congress to pause for a minute, take a deep breath, and try to seriously rework the structure of the plan, making it a plan that addresses the real problem. Don’t let yourself be railroaded — if this plan goes through in anything like its current form, we’ll all be very sorry in the not-too-distant future.
This bears repeating:

Quote:
after having spent a year and a half telling everyone that things were under control, the Bush administration says that the sky is falling, and that to save the world we have to do exactly what it says now now now.
And in case you don't get it:

Quote:
after having spent a year and a half telling everyone that things were under control, the Bush administration says that the sky is falling, and that to save the world we have to do exactly what it says now now now.
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Old 09-25-2008, 02:02 AM   #24
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When it comes to televised presidential addresses meant to calm an anxious populace... Bush is no Franklin Roosevelt.
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Old 09-25-2008, 06:05 AM   #25
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When it comes to televised presidential addresses meant to calm an anxious populace... Bush is no Franklin Roosevelt.

Hey, now as my man Biden says, Roosevelt got on the TV back in 1929 and let everyone know everything was going to be all right...

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Old 09-25-2008, 11:26 PM   #26
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I think this truly deserves the smiley:

Bad News For The Bailout - Forbes.com

In fact, some of the most basic details, including the $700 billion figure Treasury would use to buy up bad debt, are fuzzy.

"It's not based on any particular data point," a Treasury spokeswoman told Forbes.com Tuesday. "We just wanted to choose a really large number."


Yes, um ...... that is indeed a very large number. We'd prefer one that's not pulled out of your collective asses.
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Old 09-25-2008, 11:38 PM   #27
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I think this truly deserves the smiley:

Bad News For The Bailout - Forbes.com

In fact, some of the most basic details, including the $700 billion figure Treasury would use to buy up bad debt, are fuzzy.

"It's not based on any particular data point," a Treasury spokeswoman told Forbes.com Tuesday. "We just wanted to choose a really large number."


Yes, um ...... that is indeed a very large number. We'd prefer one that's not pulled out of your collective asses.
Well, the thing is: They don't know which number is the correct one. And it's even impossible to tell which range really is the correct one.
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Old 09-26-2008, 12:07 AM   #28
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Well, the thing is: They don't know which number is the correct one. And it's even impossible to tell which range really is the correct one.
Which begs the question, are they, just like cori said "pulling it out of their collective asses."
Come on, what kind of decision it that? maybe the "decider" Bush thinks like this, but not the people.
This is one of the reason's it's not a done deal, like this administration thought it would be.
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Old 09-26-2008, 12:21 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by sue4u2 View Post
I don't think it's the loan or bail out, if you will that bothers most people - that are paying attention, as long as they pull out the part of it that states:

Dirty Secret Of The Bailout: Thirty-Two Words That None Dare Utter
Quote:
Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency.
WHAAAATTT?!
Quote:
In short, the so-called "mother of all bailouts," which will transfer $700 billion taxpayer dollars to purchase the distressed assets of several failed financial institutions, will be conducted in a manner unchallengeable by courts and ungovernable by the People's duly sworn representatives. All decision-making power will be consolidated into the Executive Branch - who, we remind you, will have the incentive to act upon this privilege as quickly as possible, before they leave office.
No ing way! The whole system of checks and balances was put into place so that one government branch doesn't have supreme power over anything, to prevent just that type of corruption!
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Old 09-26-2008, 01:02 AM   #30
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WHAAAATTT?!

No ing way! The whole system of checks and balances was put into place so that one government branch doesn't have supreme power over anything, to prevent just that type of corruption!
Yeah, but the current administration has systematically eroded these checks and balance's over the course of time, to bring us to this.

They really thought they would have the supreme power by today.
So far it hasn't worked. But they are coming really close.
Tomorrow is another day.
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