58,000 lives have been taken in Baghdad, Iraq, in the last 90 days.

[deep]

The Associated Press: Baghdad takes aim at stray dogs

 

[juliaguliaxo94]

 

[INDY500]

I'm lovin' it.

 

[Jive Turkey]

That's fucking horrible

 

[the iron horse]

If you have a pet dog you think is completely domesticated and friendly, when your pet is hungry put a bowl of food down and while the dog is eating, move in close and try taking it away.

I understand why Baghdad is taking this action. Stray, hungry dogs are dangerous. The dogs have killed children.



Baghdad takes aim at stray dogs

By BUSHRA JUHI (AP) – 1 day ago

BAGHDAD — Baghdad officials said Saturday that 58,000 stray dogs have been killed in and around the Iraqi capital over the past three months as part of a campaign to curb an increasing number of strays blamed for attacks on residents.

A statement released from the Baghdad provincial government said 20 teams, made up of police shooters and veterinarians, had been moving around Baghdad and the outer-lying regions daily looking for and putting down the strays. The operation, which was first announced in 2008, truly took off in April after funds were allocated.

The surge in strays — estimated by provincial officials to have reached 1.25 million — is ironically linked to what officials say is an improvement in some elements of daily life in Baghdad, a city that for seven years has been struggling to return to normalcy after the 2003 U.S.-led invasion to topple Saddam Hussein.

Officials with the provincial veterinary directorate said the dogs are eating more and having bigger litters.

Figures for the number of attacks by packs of stray dogs were not available Saturday, the last day of the weekend in Iraq.

But officials said resident complaints have increased steadily in tandem with the rise in the stray population. In the capital, dogs have attacked children, in some cases killing them.

Efforts since the campaign was first announced in 2008 met with limited success because of a lack of funding and follow-through. There are not believed to be any dog shelters in Baghdad.

The teams begin their work daily at 6 a.m., and coordinate with relevant security forces in the area — ostensibly to ensure that their presence does not draw retaliatory fire by security forces who may mistake them for insurgents.

Provincial officials said before the teams move into an area, residents are also notified, and warned to not pick up meat they find on the ground because it could be the poisoned food used to lure and kill the dogs.

Under Saddam Hussein's regime, stray dogs were routinely shot. But their numbers grew steadily following the 2003 U.S.-led invasion when a host of more serious security issues sidelined efforts to deal with the dogs.

 

[BVS]

If you have a pet dog you think is completely domesticated and friendly, when your pet is hungry put a bowl of food down and while the dog is eating, move in close and try taking it away.

I understand why Baghdad is taking this action. Stray, hungry dogs are dangerous. The dogs have killed children.

What kind of dogs are you raising?

How many accounts do we have of strays killing children?

 

[Jive Turkey]

Not speaking for the strays, but if you have a dog that you cant take food away from, you need to get a handle on your dog

I read the article. I understand why they're doing it, but I still think its fucking horrible

 

[deep]

try and take away a "tool" from someone, if they rasie a fuss,
we should shoot them, right?

 

[Kieran McConville]

Just this one time, I can't really see how Iron Horse is all that wrong. Stray, hungry dogs are indeed dangerous. At best they are a nuisance with limited prospects (I'd suspect) of finding good homes in the probably not terribly placid suburbs of Baghdad.

 

[kafrun]

God.. why did I open this thread? Necessary or not, that picture is horrible.

 

[deep]

I suppose it is an economic thing.

But, it seems the solution might be to to stop or slow the reproduction.

There should be an effort to come up with an economic contraception. An oral long term contraception would be best. Then a couple of times a year they could put the baited food out.

This current solution is just a vicious cycle of canine slaughter.

 

[Liesje]

As the resident canine ambassador it sickens me....but what else is to be done? Even in the US we cannot control our dog population and have overcrowded, underfunded shelters and perfectly good, healthy, well trained pets being euthanized daily.

IMO, whether or not the dogs resource guard (guard their food/scraps) is incidental. Everyone has their own tolerance level for that, I probably have a different one than many (I absolutely do not tolerate it), but what upsets me more is the health and conditions of the animals. To me it is a quality of life issue. Is a dog really better off on the streets sick and starving, or likewise in an underfunded shelter pacing in a small cement cell?

 

[Liesje]

There should be an effort to come up with an economic contraception. An oral long term contraception would be best. Then a couple of times a year they could put the baited food out.

As far as I know, no such thing exists for dogs. If Beth is still around maybe she can correct me if I'm wrong. There is a "mis-mate" shot available but it comes with its own risks, many vets will not use it, and you have to administer it within a certain time interval. It would most likely be used by someone with high value breeding dogs, if there is an "oops" mating and they don't want to have to spay the bitch to abort the litter or have the litter on record in sire's studbook.

In the US there are many feral cat colonies and groups that round up ferals, alter them, and release them again. I suppose the same could work for dogs except dogs are really scavengers so they are more drawn to the human population as a food source. There is more risk of exposure to illness and disease, plus more danger depending on their level of aggression.

 

[BVS]

Stray, hungry dogs are indeed dangerous.

Doesn't this depend on breed? Or training?

I'm no expert, but I've had plenty of experience with strays and have never really had any issue with strays attacking just because they are hungry.

 

[Liesje]

I have very little experience with strays, but experience with dogs and dog behavior. I doubt a stray dog (or any dog) will attack you unprovoked, unless the dog is mental, rabid, or guarding young. Dogs are not going to attack and try to eat humans. It's more likely that "attacks" or bites are fear-based. Most dog bites are (domestic dogs, anyway). You may be walking down the street and unintentionally corner a feral dog in a doorway, triggering the "fight or flight" response which could lead to a bite.

 

[BVS]

That's been my experience as well...

 

[INDY500]

At best they are a nuisance with limited prospects (I'd suspect) of finding good homes in the probably not terribly placid suburbs of Baghdad.

The Prophet Mohammed wasn't what you'd call a dog lover. For the most part they are forbidden to be kept as pets.

 

[maycocksean]

I have a lot of experience with strays, or as we called them in Saipan, "boonie dogs." They're everywhere there. In fact one of the things that has been a change for us (and a refreshing one when I'm out running) is that there simply aren't any dogs wandering the streets. The boonie dogs on Saipan were generally in pretty awful condition. They weren't super dangerous, I don't think. Most times if you were being chased and bent to down as if to pick up a rock they'd run in the other direction pretty quick, as rocks are how a lot of the locals deal with them. The boonie dog's life isn't a good one--in addition to being sick, malnourished etc, they are often hit by cars and occasionally, snatched up and cooked up as someone's supper.

I heard that a few years ago there was a move to have a campaign to gather up all the boonie dogs and have them spayed/neutered by volunteer veternarians but apparently it was blocked by the islands' one regular vet--who charges extortionary rates-- who I guess didn't want any free spaying/neutering happening in his territory.

They are supposed to have a pound there but because of the governments perennial economic crisis, there's never been funding to open one.

 

[Diemen]

If you have a pet dog you think is completely domesticated and friendly, when your pet is hungry put a bowl of food down and while the dog is eating, move in close and try taking it away.

If you can't take away your dog's food bowl safely, you're either a negligent owner for not training your dog to accept your interference at any time, or an ignorant owner for not knowing how to train your dog properly in the first place.

 

[Kieran McConville]

The Prophet Mohammed wasn't what you'd call a dog lover. For the most part they are forbidden to be kept as pets.

Well somebody must have been keeping them as pets, at some point! How else do you suppose that Baghdad would have a problem with stray dogs in the first place?

And to my earlier comment I perhaps associate danger with strays that start to gather in packs, more so than utter terror at one single unfed dog that happens to be hungry.

 

[Jive Turkey]

I'm sure Liesje would know better than me, but I'm pretty certain that if your dog is growling at you for taking its food, it doesn't respect you as being dominant.

 

[Liesje]

Dominance theory has been debunked. If a dog growls at you for reaching for his food, it's simply because he wants that resource and feels he has to protect it. Dogs form fluid social hierarchies that humans should not attempt to be a part of. A dog knows the difference between a human and another dog. At my house it works like this:

Me














my dogs

 

[Jive Turkey]

Liesje, are you calling Cesar Millan an asshole?

 

[Liesje]

Pretty much. Actually I think he's a neat guy and Id like to meet him, but I wouldn't let him touch my dogs He has no formal training or schooling in animal behavior. His "exercise, discipline, affection" mantra is not at all unique and any dog person knows this is simply common sense. His "rehabilitation" methods are based on outdated, flawed research that is no longer accepted by trained behaviorists. His most commonly used technique is flooding, which is relatively simple to understand but can be devastating when used in the wrong situation (but, you're never going to see that on the TV show...). Most of the time I agree with what he says to the owners and disagree with how he handles the dogs.

 

[Jive Turkey]

Pretty much.

lol

 

[BoMac]

Dominance theory has been debunked. If a dog growls at you for reaching for his food, it's simply because he wants that resource and feels he has to protect it. Dogs form fluid social hierarchies that humans should not attempt to be a part of. A dog knows the difference between a human and another dog. At my house it works like this:

Me














my dogs


















Phil

Wow, you're tough.

 

[maycocksean]

Wow, you're tough.

 

[maycocksean]

Pretty much. Actually I think he's a neat guy and Id like to meet him, but I wouldn't let him touch my dogs He has no formal training or schooling in animal behavior. His "exercise, discipline, affection" mantra is not at all unique and any dog person knows this is simply common sense. His "rehabilitation" methods are based on outdated, flawed research that is no longer accepted by trained behaviorists. His most commonly used technique is flooding, which is relatively simple to understand but can be devastating when used in the wrong situation (but, you're never going to see that on the TV show...). Most of the time I agree with what he says to the owners and disagree with how he handles the dogs.

Really. . .wow. I didn't know that. Not that we're big fans of his or anything.

We're still trying to figure out what to do about our dog. We saw her when we went back to visit Saipan and she was doing alright, but the situation she is in right now--being looked after by our former colleagues who live in our little housing complex but not having any one taken full-on ownership--is no longer tenable.

Eh. . . .you know what, let me PM you. No sense in derailing the whole thread to bore everyone with my dog issues.

 

[Liesje]

Sean I actually thought of you and your dog when I started reading this thread and wondered how she was doing. My own female has gone through some major ups and downs lately.

Now getting off topic but the thing to remember about CM is that he is basically a small time celebrity with a popular TV show, but that alone is not any sort of validation nor does it compensate for a lack of actual qualifications. I respect him for his patience with the types of dog owners he deals with (my solution would be smacking them with a 2x4) and for bringing some positive attention to the "vicious" breeds often under attack and threatened by breed-specific legislation. But as far as as his actual techniques with dogs, they are outdated, based on shallow reasoning, and all over the place, at best.

 

[Jive Turkey]

tss!

*pinches Liesje on the scruff of the neck*