5 Harvard Students answer questions on their Faith-who represented theirs the best? - Page 2 - U2 Feedback

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View Poll Results: Who did the best job explaining and representing their Faith in this forum?
The Jewish Guy 2 20.00%
The Buddist Girl 3 30.00%
The non traditional Christian-Mormon 2 20.00%
The traditional Christian 3 30.00%
The Muslim Girl 4 40.00%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 10. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-13-2009, 03:18 PM   #16
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the moderator was an atheist-nice company.



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ok . . .
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Old 03-14-2009, 05:26 AM   #17
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So much for unprejudiced thinking.



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The moderator spoke about people like you.


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The moderator was an Atheist-nice company.



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Seriously, it doesn't matter to me personally what these 5 people think. It matters to them and that's all that is important.
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Old 03-14-2009, 06:37 AM   #18
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What's wrong with being an atheist?
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Old 03-14-2009, 08:07 AM   #19
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The fact is Mormonism is a cult. ..
Hoo boy. Here we go. . .

Seriously, I don't know why it's so important to discredit the Mormons. Somehow, I feel every time we do that it's not the finest moment for our faith.
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Old 03-14-2009, 09:23 AM   #20
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Hoo boy. Here we go. . .

Seriously, I don't know why it's so important to discredit the Mormons. Somehow, I feel every time we do that it's not the finest moment for our faith.
I completely disagree. If we let them continue telling people they're Christian when they're not, we're doing a huge discredit to our faith. Out finest moment is standing up for truth. Not saying apples and oranges are the same thing. That makes no sense.
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Old 03-14-2009, 04:42 PM   #21
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If we let them continue telling people they're Christian when they're not, we're doing a huge discredit to our faith. Out finest moment is standing up for truth.
'Standing up for truth' in whose eyes? I don't find this line of thinking to add up. By definition, anyone who isn't Christian doesn't see your particular beliefs as 'the truth' in the way you mean that anyway; therefore you'll incur no additional respect from them for framing your objections in these terms. I can understand skepticism concerning why Mormons sometimes categorize themselves as 'just another sect of Christians'--what's the matter with being a separate and distinct religion? is that a socially demoting insult somehow? I don't see why--but not the claim that you make your own doctrines more appealing to others by ridiculing theirs.
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Old 03-14-2009, 04:49 PM   #22
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Thank you Yolland and Sean.

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Old 03-14-2009, 09:24 PM   #23
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'Standing up for truth' in whose eyes? I don't find this line of thinking to add up. By definition, anyone who isn't Christian doesn't see your particular beliefs as 'the truth' in the way you mean that anyway; therefore you'll incur no additional respect from them for framing your objections in these terms. I can understand skepticism concerning why Mormons sometimes categorize themselves as 'just another sect of Christians'--what's the matter with being a separate and distinct religion? is that a socially demoting insult somehow? I don't see why--but not the claim that you make your own doctrines more appealing to others by ridiculing theirs.
Yolland -- where in this discussion have I said Christianity is the ultimate universal truth? That's not at all what I'm talking about here. I'm standing up for the truth that Mormonism is not Christianity. It's completely different. Anyone who gives the two faiths a quick glance can see that. On the surface, yes, they sound similar, but when you hold the two up to the light they're terribly different. It's absurd to think they're both Christian. Why is it so wrong for me to make that statement? I'm not attacking diamond as a person. He has every right to believe what he wants to believe, but, as a Christian myself, if he's going to say his faith is Christian, I have to object. It's simply just not. We're talking about complete night and day differences in a variety of fundamental truths. What if I said Christians were Jewish? I'm really Jewish, Yolland. I'm just like you are. You're Jewish and I'm Jewish. What would you say? And honestly, the differences between Judaism and Christianity aren't as deep as those between Christianity and Mormonism.
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Old 03-14-2009, 10:00 PM   #24
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Anyone who gives the two faiths a quick glance can see that.
Exactly. So why the need to discredit their faith? And yes, it's not just highlighting the differences (which I wouldn't have a problem with) but an active attempt to discredit. See some of your quotes below:

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The fact is Mormonism is a cult.

it's secretive (which she touched on, but didn't get back to) and there's no historical basis for it's book (yet, it claims to be an enhancement of the Bible, which has more archaeological and historical support every day.).

(and frankly, if I'm honest, more in line with Satan's wish for power. I know you'll say I'm being hateful in saying this, but he did want to be like God and that's what led to his fall. there's no denying this.) And the Book of Mormon was translated by divine providence? Then why was the original translation written in a low reading level with poor grammar? Why has the Book of Mormon been changed so much over the years? Why does it plagiarize the Old Testament and take OT names, switch some letters around and assign them to new people? It just doesn't sound divine to me.
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Old 03-14-2009, 10:17 PM   #25
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Yeah, I'm explaining how it's cultish in nature. It just is. It's taken something that's mainline (Christianity) and twisted it, but it still says it's the same. I know the word cult sounds harsh, but by definition, that's what it is. I'm not attacking, just defining.

Check out:

cult - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

and you'll find this definition: "a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious"

The definition of spurious also fits:
spurious - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

"outwardly similar or corresponding to something without having its genuine qualities"

See what I mean?
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Old 03-14-2009, 10:24 PM   #26
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Oh please, you are attacking, because you cling to another mad pack of superstition which you find gratifying, do you feel the same way about Scientologists, Seven Day Adventists, and Muslims?
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Old 03-14-2009, 10:27 PM   #27
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Do I disagree with them, yes. Scientologists and Muslims don't call themselves Christians though. And I don't see any Seventh Day Adventists picking fights here.
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Old 03-14-2009, 10:42 PM   #28
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Yolland -- where in this discussion have I said Christianity is the ultimate universal truth? That's not at all what I'm talking about here. I'm standing up for the truth that Mormonism is not Christianity.
As I said, "I can understand skepticism concerning why Mormons sometimes categorize themselves as 'just another sect of Christians,'" since after all they do have their own wholly separate additional scriptures as well as a very large body of practices and doctrines entirely unique to them, far more extensive than the differences between say Catholicism and Lutheranism. But if you seek only to contest the claim that it makes sense to unproblematically lump them in under the 'Christianity' label, then why say stuff like this:
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The fact is Mormonism is a cult. It's taken Christian terminology and twisted it to mean something completely different
........
That's completely contradictory to what the Bible says (and frankly, if I'm honest, more in line with Satan's wish for power. I know you'll say I'm being hateful in saying this, but he did want to be like God and that's what led to his fall. there's no denying this.)
........
And the Book of Mormon was translated by divine providence? Then why was the original translation written in a low reading level with poor grammar?
.........
It just doesn't sound divine to me.
Why the need to ridicule? Why not point out the doctrinal, scriptural and practice differences without the derisive, contemptuous tone, then leave it up to the reader or listener to decide for themselves whether it makes conceptual sense to label Mormonism as Christianity? The level of emotion you display about this would seem to suggest it's about something more than just questionable theological distinction-drawing for you. It ain't hard for the average non-Christian to spot that Mormonism is doctrinally much further from any decent-sized Christian sect than the rest of them are from each other. You don't need to go for the jugular in order to hit home that point, and I don't understand who you think is going to see it as a "finest moment" if you do, nor why.
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What if I said Christians were Jewish? I'm really Jewish, Yolland. I'm just like you are. You're Jewish and I'm Jewish. What would you say?
That already exists; it's called Jews for Jesus, and its purpose is to destroy Judaism and Jewish identity by strategically subsuming it (through aggressive proselytizing) within Christianity, where it can 'live on' mounted and stuffed as a charmingly exotic, lovingly curated monument to an unenlightened past. But I'm not really seeing the analogy here, because for us, that's not an objection about proper theological framing, nor certainly about Christianity being a 'twisted' version of Judaism, or a Satanic power-wish, or a 'non-divine-sounding' religion, none of which are at all how we view Christianity. It's more analogous to what Native Americans feel when some WASP guy who happens to have maybe a Lakota great-grandfather renames himself 'Eagle Little Feather,' then goes around aggressively propounding his own amalgam of Lakota traditions with other ideas drawn from the New Age lexicon, all further sweetened by regularly flaunting his blood-quantum cred: that their culture, their people, their spiritual traditions, which have already suffered so much attrition from their historically marginalized position, are emphatically not up for sale to anyone seeking the personal gratification of winning others over to his spiritual views, whence they can help him grow his church, his sweat lodge, his book sales or whatever. But you're not in a position like that, and so I don't understand what all this agitation is for. How is it a threat to you if someone believes very different things from you about Jesus' place in the universe, yet still considers and presents themselves as a Christian? It gives them an unwarranted leg-up in proselytizing perhaps, is that the concern?
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Old 03-14-2009, 11:56 PM   #29
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Yolland, I appreciate what you're saying. If I seem too harsh, I appologize. The finest moment thing came across different than I intended. Other finest moments of the faith are love and humility, and yes, I don't always get those right. If I haven't here, I'm sorry.

At the same time though, my faith does ask of me to stand up for it. Part of what I'm trying to do here is display the differences between Christianity and Mormonism. Some of these differences include the historical and archaeological support for the Bible, and the lack thereof for the Book of Mormon. It's just another fact. Even the National Geographic will tell you this. I'm in no way trying to ridicule Mormons by saying that. Again, I've said diamond has every right to believe what he wants to believe, but let's look at the two and see how they're different. And again, if you look at the definition of cult that I posted above and then look at Mormonism, it fits. Is that really ridicule? Also, I did not say Mormonism is a "twisted version of Christianity" as you said I did. I said it has twisted elements of Christinaity to mean something different. I used the word "twisted" as a verb. Maybe "significiantly atlered" would be a better choice of words. I also did not say it was Satanic-powerish as you said I did, I just commented on the similarities between the idea of becoming Godlike between Mormon theology and what led to Satan's fall. I know that seems like a harsh comparison, but my point was that it's another example of how Mormon theology is very different from Christian theology. If you look at that objectively, am I wrong? Aren't the two lines of thinking in that comparison similar and don't they differ from what Christianity teaches? That was my point. However, I can fully understand that it sounds harsh, so I appologize for pointing out the similarities. As far as the original text of the Book of Mormon being translated at a low reading level - it doesn't sound divine. Again, am I wrong? And can I not state my opinion on that? It sounds like Joseph Smith wrote it himself -- and that's not even a slam to him. He didn't receive a formal education during his youth and, therefore, it sounds like he wrote the text himself. Is that a fair assessment to make?

But again, honestly, if I came across too harsh, I am sorry.
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Old 03-14-2009, 11:57 PM   #30
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That one group of believers in Chirst understand His nature differently, but agree on his divinity from another group of believers- shouldn't disqualify that group of believers by the other.

And that is the crux of the problem one poster cannot get thru his head.

When I look at Sunni and Shia Muslims, I know of their differences however: both groups are considered Muslim.

Even though one group may claim the other group is not a group of "true Muslims"-doesn't make it true.


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