45% Of Students Don't Learn Much In College - Page 3 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind
Click Here to Login
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 01-25-2011, 01:58 AM   #31
Blue Crack Addict
 
PhilsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Standing on the shore, facing east.
Posts: 18,874
Local Time: 01:03 AM
You're all talking about me.

I'm a sophomore right now. I'm a communications major. I'm a business minor. I have about a 3.7 GPA. By the time I graduate, the total cost will be a little over $100,000. I'll still owe most of it.

I have no idea if I'll be able to get a job. Let's hope so.
__________________

__________________
PhilsFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2011, 09:40 AM   #32
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Canadiens1131's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 10,363
Local Time: 02:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilsFan View Post
You're all talking about me.

I'm a sophomore right now. I'm a communications major. I'm a business minor. I have about a 3.7 GPA. By the time I graduate, the total cost will be a little over $100,000. I'll still owe most of it.

I have no idea if I'll be able to get a job. Let's hope so.
Could be worse, you could have been spending around 100k on a Journalism degree in this transitional, turbulent media climate

Quote:
Originally Posted by AliEnvy View Post
As there is a need for shorter degrees that deliver real skills at a reasonable cost
We already have these - vocational schools, and some very decent ones in Canada and the U.S, too. Unfortunately I think society looks down on vocational education or apprenticeships.

I think a reckoning in university eudcation is coming eventually in the West, and maybe our values will shift from paying for externalities like big, green campuses and musty, century-old buildings with tuition money.

We have no choice as a society but to change, eventually, because resourcefulness and innovation from the developing world will force us to find a better way to educate our kids without breaking the bank. We fight about all this stupid shit like Creationism and re-writing history textbooks, which distracts us from the fact that with the widening income gap between rich and poor, intellectual capital is becoming more and more out of reach for many.
__________________

__________________
Canadiens1131 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2011, 10:34 AM   #33
Refugee
 
AliEnvy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 2,320
Local Time: 06:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadiens1131 View Post
We have no choice as a society but to change, eventually, because resourcefulness and innovation from the developing world will force us to find a better way to educate our kids without breaking the bank. We fight about all this stupid shit like Creationism and re-writing history textbooks, which distracts us
Yep.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadiens1131 View Post
intellectual capital is becoming more and more out of reach for many.
Nope. What used to be the exclusive domain of university libraries and classrooms is now at our fingertips. That is, for those so inclined and who do not intend to seek permission from credentialing bureaucrats.
__________________
AliEnvy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2011, 11:06 AM   #34
Blue Crack Addict
 
PhilsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Standing on the shore, facing east.
Posts: 18,874
Local Time: 01:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadiens1131 View Post
Could be worse, you could have been spending around 100k on a Journalism degree in this transitional, turbulent media climate
That's what it is, actually.
__________________
PhilsFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2011, 01:42 PM   #35
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,501
Local Time: 10:03 PM
Trader Joe's will give you some consideration for you degree.
__________________
deep is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2011, 02:09 PM   #36
Refugee
 
Cactus Annie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: The Mighty Jagrafess of the Holy Hadrojassic Maxaroedenfoe
Posts: 2,146
Local Time: 06:03 AM
Maybe they lack motivation

Maybe they suffer from separation anxiety

Maybe they dislike the subjects they are studying

Maybe they want to do something else yet their pushy parents are forbidding them from doing what they want
__________________
Cactus Annie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2011, 02:16 PM   #37
Forum Moderator
 
yolland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,471
Local Time: 07:03 AM
It's a little frustrating to not have information such as which colleges and majors we're talking about, but, that is a built-in limitation of the CLA. The most useful indicator supplied may be the number of students who'd written a 20+ page paper or read >40 pages per week for a course. In my field (poli sci), there was a lot of curriculum overhaul back in the 1990s in response to concerns about how easy it was in many poli sci departments for majors to get all the way through without ever writing a research paper or engaging in seminar discussion/group work (as a component of the grade). Particularly since poli sci is a popular major for aspiring lawyers, who must be able to write well and to critically analyze arguments, this was a big problem. Of course, those overhauls will have had sharply varying degress of success, and that's only looking at one field.

As the OP article points out, particularly for underclassmen, too many large, lecture-based courses undoubtedly contribute to the problem as well. I do have the students in my larger 200-levels (which are around 200 students, give or take) write a few ~5-10 page papers during the semester, including face-to-face meetings with each student to discuss revisions and so forth, but it truly is a marathon to fit all that in, and I couldn't do it without multiple TAs working with me on the grading (I do still review the papers they've graded after they've graded them, so it's professional development for them as well). And no one should be surprised that part-time untenured faculty (more than 50% of all faculty nationwide now) are more likely to cut corners on reading and writing assignments and to inflate grades; they're typically working multiple teaching jobs, carrying large class loads for peanuts, and nervously looking ahead to the next time their contract comes up for review, so all told they've probably got less breathing room for labor-intensive teaching, even though they're usually free from publishing and committee work requirements. As for professors who care more about their research than their students, well, when you make that a job requirement, you're gonna attract a lot of that type of person.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AliEnvy View Post
What used to be the exclusive domain of university libraries and classrooms is now at our fingertips. That is, for those so inclined and who do not intend to seek permission from credentialing bureaucrats.
The Gen-X infogeek in me says Right On, but the teacher in me just laughs bleakly. Access isn't educational by itself; you still have to actually read, critically analyze, and synthesize original responses to what you've "accessed." And I don't know any academics (in the humanities and social sciences, anyway) who WOULDN'T say those skills are on the decline. Very few people have the self-discipline and innate intellectual rigor to voluntarily subject themselves to the kinds of 'pressure' situations needed to build up high-level research skills--not the least of which is ensuring quality and breadth of information.
__________________
yolland [at] interference.com


μελετώ αποτυγχάνειν. -- Διογένης της Σινώπης
yolland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2011, 02:54 PM   #38
Refugee
 
AliEnvy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 2,320
Local Time: 06:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yolland View Post
As the OP article points out, particularly for underclassmen, too many large, lecture-based courses undoubtedly contribute to the problem as well. I do have the students in my larger 200-levels (which are around 200 students, give or take) write a few ~5-10 page papers during the semester, including face-to-face meetings with each student to discuss revisions and so forth, but it truly is a marathon to fit all that in, and I couldn't do it without multiple TAs working with me on the grading (I do still review the papers they've graded after they've graded them, so it's professional development for them as well). And no one should be surprised that part-time untenured faculty (more than 50% of all faculty nationwide now) are more likely to cut corners on reading and writing assignments and to inflate grades; they're typically working multiple teaching jobs, carrying large class loads for peanuts, and nervously looking ahead to the next time their contract comes up for review, so all told they've probably got less breathing room for labor-intensive teaching, even though they're usually free from publishing and committee work requirements. As for professors who care more about their research than their students, well, when you make that a job requirement, you're gonna attract a lot of that type of person.
Thank you for describing what the bubble looks like on the inside.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yolland View Post
The Gen-X infogeek in me says Right On, but the teacher in me just laughs bleakly. Access isn't educational by itself; you still have to actually read, critically analyze, and synthesize original responses to what you've "accessed." And I don't know any academics (in the humanities and social sciences, anyway) who WOULDN'T say those skills are on the decline. Very few people have the self-discipline and innate intellectual rigor to voluntarily subject themselves to the kinds of 'pressure' situations needed to build up high-level research skills--not the least of which is ensuring quality and breadth of information.
I don't disagree. I'm not suggesting access to information by itself is educational to the degree that we value higher learning. But bricks and mortar are no longer as necessary in the traditional sense.

So if/when the bubble bursts and many actual bricks and mortar institutions go down, distance learning may evolve and increase in quality and become more of the norm as a departure from the mail-it-in/cereal-box-degree reputation it has now.
__________________
AliEnvy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2011, 03:10 PM   #39
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Canadiens1131's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 10,363
Local Time: 02:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AliEnvy View Post
Nope. What used to be the exclusive domain of university libraries and classrooms is now at our fingertips. That is, for those so inclined and who do not intend to seek permission from credentialing bureaucrats.
Although it's nice to think of it like that, the ability to look up a piece of information instantly does not equal critical thinking or long-term memory retention.

The availability of information has indeed been democratized, but I think university still provides critical reasoning skillz the Google ain't so hot at dishing out alone.
__________________
Canadiens1131 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2011, 03:17 PM   #40
ONE
love, blood, life
 
LuckyNumber7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Leicester, UK
Posts: 12,367
Local Time: 01:03 AM
45% of students dont learn much in college because they're moronic.

It's so incredibly amazing... in middle school I understood why they were.

In high school I understood why they were there, but I didnt understand why they were there in my class.

In college... it just doesn't make any sense. Why are they still here!!?
__________________
LuckyNumber7 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2011, 03:18 PM   #41
Refugee
 
AliEnvy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 2,320
Local Time: 06:03 AM
It's interesting that you both assumed that the library and classroom at our fingertips comment referred solely to access to information.

Think interactive video technology and virtual classrooms.
__________________
AliEnvy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2011, 03:18 PM   #42
ONE
love, blood, life
 
LuckyNumber7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Leicester, UK
Posts: 12,367
Local Time: 01:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilsFan View Post
You're all talking about me.

I'm a sophomore right now. I'm a communications major. I'm a business minor. I have about a 3.7 GPA. By the time I graduate, the total cost will be a little over $100,000. I'll still owe most of it.

I have no idea if I'll be able to get a job. Let's hope so.
Ouch that sucks. That's the one beauty about Florida, the state school system is pretty awesome. I'm a freshman CS major, college is pretty expenseless here if you abide by state qualifications for scholarships. It's pretty much just the cost of living that you pay for.
__________________
LuckyNumber7 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2011, 03:23 PM   #43
Forum Moderator
 
yolland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,471
Local Time: 07:03 AM
I took "credentialing bureaucrats" to suggest you were talking about autodidacticism, not distance learning. I've taught (small) distance-learning courses before, in fact I'm doing one right now. It has its place, but the technology isn't really all there yet and the dropout rates are discouragingly high; another decade will give a clearer sense what the future holds, I think. The workplace hasn't really caught up to the implicit model of learning yet, either--few companies overall have much use for graduates whose teamwork skills are solely of the electronic variety. But it's still a classroom; I'm a teacher and mentor to students, not a database at some anonymous consumer's "fingertips." I know that's not how you meant it, but I dislike those kinds of metaphors intensely.
__________________
yolland [at] interference.com


μελετώ αποτυγχάνειν. -- Διογένης της Σινώπης
yolland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2011, 03:24 PM   #44
ONE
love, blood, life
 
financeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 10,122
Local Time: 07:03 AM
The education in neo-liberal economies is largely a vehicle for producing brain-washed automatons. If it is true that 45% of students don't learn much in college, then that is probably precisely as intended.
__________________
financeguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2011, 03:36 PM   #45
Forum Moderator
 
yolland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,471
Local Time: 07:03 AM
Tidying the collar of my Mao suit right now before dashing off to gloat about Marx to another faceless hallful of brainwashed automatons.
__________________

__________________
yolland [at] interference.com


μελετώ αποτυγχάνειν. -- Διογένης της Σινώπης
yolland is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:03 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com