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Old 10-16-2012, 11:21 PM   #331
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He also has black friends you know.
Exactly. That's what it reminds me of.
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Old 10-16-2012, 11:25 PM   #332
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He also has black friends you know.
Instead of being given a blue knit cap when he was born, his father received a tiny sombrero.
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Old 10-16-2012, 11:26 PM   #333
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I think it's clear that Mitt Romney had a giant, beach ball sized hanging curve thrown his way, and he went all A-Rod on us and swung and missed.

Benghazi.

Romney allowed a giant black mark on the Obama administration to be turned against him over a simple case of semantics. He took an easy zing and turned around and zinged himself.

There are incredibly important questions about why the security requests were denied, how an attack was allowed to take place on the anniversary of 9/11, and why the administration tried to lay the blame on a video that it now appears they knew full well wasn't the cause... yet Romney lost that easy, meatball of an argument because he focused on what the definition of the word is is.

Baffling... huge moment in the debate. The only thing Mittens has going for him on that one is that the next debate is all foreign policy focused... so he can turn the attention back on the questions that really matter, rather than Barry's use of the phrase terror... but wow what a giant whiff on that one tonight.
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Old 10-16-2012, 11:26 PM   #334
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I don't think you're biased, deep. Just wrong.
oh I have a bias for Obama and against Romney

I also can have wrong opinions, I change my opinions and beliefs when I get better information to replace ? less good information

I personally feel Obama bettered Romney tonight especially compared to last time.

but taking my bias into account I did a slight adjustment and see it being pretty close with each side being able to call their guy the winner. If current polls are correct and Romney is at 49 to Obama 47, gallup has it at 50 - 46 for Romney

then this will shake out as a slight win for Romney, and with the momentum going his way, I would call this a slight win for him, a 'net' win.

of course I could be wrong, in 4 -5 days, there will be enough polls to come to some kind of consensus and perhaps some change in the polls.
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Old 10-16-2012, 11:28 PM   #335
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semantics.
Okay, good. It wasn't just me!
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Old 10-16-2012, 11:33 PM   #336
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Oh no..Ibanez. Is he a legal immigrant?
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Old 10-16-2012, 11:36 PM   #337
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Did he get fired?
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Old 10-16-2012, 11:37 PM   #338
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Headache in a Suitcase View Post
I think it's clear that Mitt Romney had a giant, beach ball sized hanging curve thrown his way, and he went all A-Rod on us and swung and missed.

Benghazi.

Romney allowed a giant black mark on the Obama administration to be turned against him over a simple case of semantics. He took an easy zing and turned around and zinged himself.

There are incredibly important questions about why the security requests were denied, how an attack was allowed to take place on the anniversary of 9/11, and why the administration tried to lay the blame on a video that it now appears they knew full well wasn't the cause... yet Romney lost that easy, meatball of an argument because he focused on what the definition of the word is is.

Baffling... huge moment in the debate. The only thing Mittens has going for him on that one is that the next debate is all foreign policy focused... so he can turn the attention back on the questions that really matter, rather than Barry's use of the phrase terror... but wow what a giant whiff on that one tonight.
Maybe I'm missing something here, but I just don't see the Libya attacks as quite the failure on the part of the Obama administration you're suggesting, largely because the implied answers are so terrible as to be implausible:

Why were the security requests denied? Because the Obama administration just doesn't care about the security of it's personnel? Come on. . . I'd have a lot of questions about the request, what was the nature of the denial, who made the decision to deny additional security and what the reasons were. But that doesn't add up to a callous disregard for the safety of diplomatic personnel by the administration as a whole.

Why did they lay blame on the video? Because the Obama administration wanted to hide what. . .? It seems more reasonable to conclude that the facts simply weren't clear at the time. Also reasonable, is that they may not have not wanted to admit that they didn't see the attack coming. Still it would be rather foolish to put the blame on the video when you know full well that the video wasn't responsible. They would have had to know the truth would come out so an intentional misplacing of blame would have been pretty dumb.

Finally, I just don't see the Libya attacks being the great game-changer when it comes to Romney vs. Obama on foreign policy. It wasn't in tonight's debate. I don't think it will be in the final debate either.
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Old 10-16-2012, 11:39 PM   #339
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one poll, from Huffington site

Quote:
Who won the debate?

Barack Obama 40.18%

Mitt Romney 38.67%

Neither 21.15%
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Old 10-16-2012, 11:40 PM   #340
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i think a CNN poll that just came up is fairly interesting... people tend to think Obama won, and I can see that.

80+% seem to think that Obama did the same or better than last time, which is the most obvious thing in the world...

but what i find interesting is that some 70 odd percent thought that Romney was the same or better than the last debate... split about evenly between better or the same...

and CNN said the debate was 33% democratic, 38% republican, and the rest identified as independent...

i dunno if it means anything at all... and we'll see a ton more numbers coming out soon... but i do find it interesting that the opinion of anyone who isn't a democrat either didn't change or got better on Romney after this debate.

so basically... even though Obama probably won here, did he win by enough to slow down Romney's momentum? will be interesting to see how things play out in the next few days...
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Old 10-16-2012, 11:42 PM   #341
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no one thought it was.

except apparently me.

i did hear callers on a particular radio talkers show ( an ? independent and leaning towards some progressivism person) after the (1st) debate saying how they liked that Obama didn't get all "agressive". Some thought he won, too by being that way.
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Old 10-16-2012, 11:45 PM   #342
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Those polls a realistic reaction to what occurred from people who watched the debate. Wait until the media (which seems to be heavily favoring Obama's performance) has an opportunity to spoonfeed the population a second-hand reproduction of the debate and you'll see the numbers shift significantly toward Obama.

Personally, I don't think it was even close. I can't imagine anyone in a parallel universe, let alone our own, who would consider Romney's performance stronger than Obama's.
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Old 10-16-2012, 11:48 PM   #343
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First impressions are an interesting thing:

During the first debate, both my wife and I immediately noticed that Romney seemed to really answer the first question he was asked--it was striking (I say "seemed" because neither candidate actually answers the questions asked most of the time. ..but it helps tremendously if they at least sound like they are answering the question). He looked really impressive.

Tonight, we both noticed that Romney was NOT answering the first question that was asked of him. Again, very noticeable.
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Old 10-16-2012, 11:50 PM   #344
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the buzz is on Obama's side.
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Old 10-16-2012, 11:51 PM   #345
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Originally Posted by maycocksean View Post
Maybe I'm missing something here, but I just don't see the Libya attacks as quite the failure on the part of the Obama administration you're suggesting, largely because the implied answers are so terrible as to be implausible:

Why were the security requests denied? Because the Obama administration just doesn't care about the security of it's personnel? Come on. . . I'd have a lot of questions about the request, what was the nature of the denial, who made the decision to deny additional security and what the reasons were. But that doesn't add up to a callous disregard for the safety of diplomatic personnel by the administration as a whole.

Why did they lay blame on the video? Because the Obama administration wanted to hide what. . .? It seems more reasonable to conclude that the facts simply weren't clear at the time. Also reasonable, is that they may not have not wanted to admit that they didn't see the attack coming. Still it would be rather foolish to put the blame on the video when you know full well that the video wasn't responsible. They would have had to know the truth would come out so an intentional misplacing of blame would have been pretty dumb.

Finally, I just don't see the Libya attacks being the great game-changer when it comes to Romney vs. Obama on foreign policy. It wasn't in tonight's debate. I don't think it will be in the final debate either.
why did Bush say we were going to Iraq for WMD's, when they knew there weren't any? why did he do what he did in New Orleans?

it doesn't have to make sense.

it could be for sinister reasons... it could be just a plain and simple and horrible oversight. either way it was a fuck up.

how is it not plausible that the administration wanted to hide said fuck up? it's certainly worth a discussion. and that's the point... the discussion should have been about the handling of the incident, which there are serious questions about... not over the timing and use of the word terror, which is just plain stupid.
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