2012 Conventions; Tampa & Charlotte

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On the spectrum the Democratic party is center/center-right. No, they're not on the left side of the spectrum. Even Obama is center-right. That's why all that socialist/communist/marxist talk is so stupid and refects bad on those stating it.

We forget about this too often in the US. I mean, the conservative PM of the UK did an "It Gets Better" ad. Can you even imagine someone like Romney doing that in the US?
 
Romney came out over the weekend and stated that he wouldn't repeal all of the Affordable Care Act. Basically he'll only repeal the mandate, which will make everything unsustainable.
 
Romney came out over the weekend and stated that he wouldn't repeal all of the Affordable Care Act. Basically he'll only repeal the mandate, which will make everything unsustainable.

He claimed that he would keep "allowing people with preexisting conditions to get health care" in an interview, but then later clarified that he only meant that people with preexisting conditions who already have insurance to keep their insurance. In other words, he endorsed completely unsustainable policy to look "moderate" and then backpedaled by saying that he supports insurance companies indeed being insurance companies and paying for claims. He is a confusing man.
 
I read that he also supposedly meant to say (well his aide had to interpret) that the marketplace will take care of people with preexisting conditions. And it's been doing a bang up job of that so far. :banghead: I just can't comprehend such a cavalier dismissive attitude towards people who are suffering. Mrs. Romney has a preexisting condition, but obviously no worries about affording care. Another thing that he was for before he was against, no matter how much he denies that.

His comments about health care give me such a headache. I'll just bang my head against a wall some more instead of going to a doctor.
 
Sadly, the Republican party in general and you in particular have abdicated any form of responsible conservative argument in favor straw man arguments, sanctimony, tweaking the noses of liberals for your own entertainment, and what was the word you used. . .ah yes, demagoguery. . .which is a shame. Because the very imbalance towards a liberal understanding of these issues that you claim to deplore both among the American public and here in FYM is something you yourself perpetuate.

I can only guess that you confuse my rhetorical certainty with sanctimony.

But yes, I take great pleasure in tweaking liberals only because, judging from their reactions and retorts, most are so unaccustomed to their positions being ridiculed or challenged. Do you blame me?
 
agreed.

the GOP -- by far the most right wing mainstream party in the developed world --

You say that like it's a bad thing. Yes, if you think the U.S. should be more like Europe, don't vote Republican.

but the opposing side has no plan. none. and what they say may sound good for the 24-hour news cycle, briefly, but when it all adds up, it doesn't add up.

Pretty sure I heard Democrat after Democrat warning that Paul Ryan wanted to "end Medicare as we know it." Or that Ryan's Path to Prosperity would result in massive cuts to education, research , etc. Detailed legislation to reform entitlements and balance the budgets sound suspiciously like plans to me.
 
Detailed legislation to reform entitlements and balance the budgets sound suspiciously like plans to me.
But his "balanced budget" doesn't make any sense, as I have been stating over and over again. He thinks "tax loopholes" is a magic wand that can make $4.6 trillion appear out of thin air. That's insanity.

He's also a proven liar (don't pull the Clinton card, I'm not a Clinton fan and never have been) who pretty much just makes things up whenever he wants to. That's the man that Mitt Romney chose.
 
PhilsFan said:
But his "balanced budget" doesn't make any sense, as I have been stating over and over again. He thinks "tax loopholes" is a magic wand that can make $4.6 trillion appear out of thin air. That's insanity.

And note how neither of them could name a specific loophole this past Sunday.

Turning Medicare into a voucher program certainly is ending it as we know it.

I agree, we need entitlement reform. Ryan isn't offering any with any basis in reality.
 
You say that like it's a bad thing. Yes, if you think the U.S. should be more like Europe, don't vote Republican.

In terms of recessionary economics, actually, Europe has done a fair job of emulating the GOP lately.
 
I can only guess that you confuse my rhetorical certainty with sanctimony.

Piously carrying on about the deficit while advocating cutting taxes for "job creators". . .yeah, that's sanctimony.

But yes, I take great pleasure in tweaking liberals only because, judging from their reactions and retorts, most are so unaccustomed to their positions being ridiculed or challenged. Do you blame me?

It's unproductive is all.
 
But yes, I take great pleasure in tweaking liberals only because, judging from their reactions and retorts, most are so unaccustomed to their positions being ridiculed or challenged. Do you blame me?

Um, no? Speaking for myself, please, by all means, debate me when an issue comes up.

And given the way you responded in the same-sex thread, deciding to bow out instead of answering half the questions posed to you by many people in there, I don't know if you really have much room to talk.

Besides, as Sean said, it doesn't add to the discussion, and it doesn't really make anyone want to hear what you have to say, even if it's valid.
 
INDY500 said:
Detailed legislation to reform entitlements and balance the budgets sound suspiciously like plans to me.

Paul Ryan's budget is dependent on US unemployment rate to drop to 2.8% by 2028. Sure that's a plan. Just like it's my plan to win the lottery.
 
Piously carrying on about the deficit while advocating cutting taxes for "job creators". . .yeah, that's sanctimony.
.

most if not all of the time post Nixon (and maybe Nixon except i didn't pay attention to everything he did pre-Watergate) Republic Presidents have let the Budget ballon while at the same time not striving for a balanced budget. Chenney said balancing the budget wasn't a big deal.

And then porceeded to reverse Pres Clinton's Budget Surplus by starting 2 wars without raising taxes (bever been done before), making Medicare Part D ?an funded mandate.

Then as just about as soon as Pres Obama took office....
they sanctimoniously declare "...we must balance The Budget..."

what a crock.

AND of course then without making the wealthy & very wealthy corporations pay their fair share... they go for almost every program that helps the middle class, the working class, the poor, the younger disabled, the frail/or poor elderly, inner-city familes etc

which in many cases is what almost all republicans on the national, and many in the Stateb level wanted all along was to decimate these programs...
 
Detailed legislation to reform entitlements and balance the budgets sound suspiciously like plans to me.

Detailed? The likes of independents and Rand Paul disagree. Medicare as a voucher program that doesn't and can't assure that if that person doesn't choose wisely or the "competitive private market" fails that the senior won't be left on their own.
 
anitram said:
Paul Ryan's budget is dependent on US unemployment rate to drop to 2.8% by 2028. Sure that's a plan. Just like it's my plan to win the lottery.

2.8% is probably below what would occur at full employment, and is close to impossible and probably not desirable.
 
Paul Ryan's budget is dependent on US unemployment rate to drop to 2.8% by 2028. Sure that's a plan. Just like it's my plan to win the lottery.
:lmao: wow. the last time it was around that, my mom was a newborn. i guess he plans on starting ww3 around 2017? just so i can prepare. hey, if we fight the germans again, my degree will really come in handy then! fuck it, i'm voting romney.
 
‘God,’ ‘Jerusalem,’ and the DNC - Dennis Prager - National Review Online
The most important event at either national convention was the “vote” taken by the Democratic delegates on a last-minute resolution to reinsert the words “God” and “Jerusalem” into the Democratic-party platform.

Regarding God: Since Karl Marx, the aim of the Left, everywhere on earth, has been a godless society. And the Democratic party has evolved over the last half century from a liberal party into a leftist one.
So much so that it is now indistinguishable from any of the leftist parties in Western Europe.

Yes, Franklin D. Roosevelt was a left-wing president — as concerned the size of the state and its role in the economy. That is of great importance, of course. But an ever-expanding state is only half of the Left’s agenda. A thoroughly secular society is the other half. And in that regard, Franklin Roosevelt was no man of the Left. He regularly spoke of the need to defend and preserve “Christian civilization” and of the centrality of the Bible and religion to American life.

Here are three representative statements by FDR:

We guard against the forces of anti-Christian aggression. (Madison Square Garden, October 28, 1940)

On this day — this American holiday — we are celebrating the rights of free laboring men and women. The preservation of these rights is vitally important now, not only to us who enjoy them — but to the whole future of Christian civilization. (Labor Day, September 1, 1941)

The world is too small to provide adequate “living room” for both Hitler and God. In proof of that, the Nazis have now announced their plan for enforcing their new German, pagan religion all over the world — a plan by which the Holy Bible and the Cross of Mercy would be displaced by Mein Kampf and the swastika and the naked sword. (State of the Union Address, January 6, 1942)

However, by the mid-1960s, to speak of militantly atheistic Communism’s threat to Judeo-Christian civilization the way Roosevelt spoke of the Nazi threat to it was to invite left-wing mockery. “Godless Communism” was dismissed as laughable.

So it is not surprising that whereas previous Democratic-party platforms all contained references to God, the 2012 party-platform committee voted to remove any such reference.

The 2008 Democratic-party platforms had included this sentence:

We need a government that stands up for the hopes, values, and interests of working people and gives everyone willing to work hard the chance to make the most of their God-given potential.

Obviously, the removal from this sentence of only the word “God-given” was deliberate. The question is, Why was it excised?

The answer is simple: America’s Left wants a godless society here in the United States, just as Europe’s Left has created such a society there — and the Democratic party is run by the Left.
To anyone who watched or simply heard the “vote” among those on the floor of the convention, it was as clear as day that at least half the Democratic delegates wanted the word “God-given” and the reference to Jerusalem as Israel’s capital to stay out of the party platform.

Democrats and liberals respond that the charge that the Left aims to establish a godless America is a calumny because millions of Democrats believe in God. Indeed, the delegate who introduced the resolution to restore the excised words, former Ohio governor Ted Strickland, introduced himself as an ordained minister of the United Methodist Church.

But this response is a non sequitur. The fact that tens of millions of Democrats and liberals (though relatively few leftists) believe in God is unrelated to the fact — I repeat, fact — that the Left wants a godless society.

Why, then, do many God-fearing Americans support a party and movement dedicated to removing God from as much of American life as possible? Because they are naïve about the Left.

The removal of the reference to Jerusalem as Israel’s capital was equally revealing and significant. The Left thinks that Israel is just as responsible for the Middle East conflict as the Palestinians and other Arabs and Muslims are. Indeed, the Left often sees Israel as more responsible for this conflict. In their view, it follows that the United States must therefore be scrupulously neutral between Israel and its enemies — as if there is a moral symmetry between them.

And finally, the convention vote itself was revealing. The blatant lie — enacted in front of a national audience, no less — that two- thirds of the delegates voted aye for the resolution was a classic example of how the Left behaves when in power.

In his address to the Democratic convention, former president Bill Clinton noted that even a broken clock is right twice a day.

What is true for a broken clock, however, is not true for a broken moral compass.

I'm telling you, this "they denied God three times" meme is quietly spoke about in fly-over country and will be on voters minds in Nov. It already has cost Obama any chance at North Carolina.
 
Right, 'cause not wanting to make a big production out of mentioning God every five minutes clearly means that they want everyone to become atheists and reject anything spiritual :rolleyes:. And as for those on the left who DO have some level of religion, some of whom are-gasp-CHRISTIAN, even, how do you explain them?

Come on already, aren't we done with the whole, "If you're not religious this is a bad thing" attitude? I noted a few pages back the way they handled that was dumb, but rest assured very few people, if any, on the left want a "godless society". All we suggest is that nobody try and force their religion on other people and that people shouldn't rely solely on religion for lawmaking purposes, no matter which religion it is (I guarantee you many of the very same people who think Christianity should be the basis for our laws would be, and are, freaking out at the idea of a Muslim using their religion to make laws. Isn't that one of the big worries the religious right have about Obama, after all, that he's a secret Muslim trying to impose his religion on everyone? Isn't that why some states have made rulings regarding sharia law?).

You can be as religious as you please and live your life by whatever faith you so choose. It matters none to me, and it doesn't matter to most others, either. Just don't push it on other people. This is really, truly not that difficult a concept to understand.

And this is coming from someone who lives in "flyover country", too, thank you.
 
‘God,’ ‘Jerusalem,’ and the DNC - Dennis Prager - National Review Online


I'm telling you, this "they denied God three times" meme is quietly spoke about in fly-over country and will be on voters minds in Nov. It already has cost Obama any chance at North Carolina.
This is patently absurd. The goal is not a Godless society. The goal is a government that doesn't sponsor religion. You know the difference, but you don't agree that it exists because you are trying to accuse the left of the dog whistles, without a hint of irony.
 
I'm telling you, this "they denied God three times" meme is quietly spoke about in fly-over country and will be on voters minds in Nov. It already has cost Obama any chance at North Carolina.




the superstitious folk in flyover country do realize Hussein Obama told the party to put those things back in, right?
 
I've never heard of "flyover country" What the heck does that mean?

We have flyovers here too, we just do it on giant broomsticks.

Apparently some in the GOP are panicking that Obama got a 6 point jump in some polls after the convention. Donald Trump said that the GOP convention wasn't good and that they better get to work. And he is the authority.
 
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