2008 Vice-Presidential Thread

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I think Obama made a great choice. I've heard people going on about how Biden isn't a fresh face, so to speak, and if Obama really was about change he'd pick someone on the margins. However, we as Americans as we've seen throughout history, are often resistant to change at first. Picking a running mate from out of left field would alienate the people that might like Obama but feel he's too grandiose in his goals. Biden represents stability, and he's already established himself as one of the most respected members of the Senate. He's well versed in foreign policy and will be able to get through to the "older" part of the Washington crowd that doesn't want to leave the status quo.
 
My friend got his text message at 3:16 am. I emailed him at 2:00 am with the pick and since I had a late night, I assume the info came out a while before I knew. That didn't work well.



What of the promise from Obama that his supporters* would be the first to know?



*(looks at BonosSaint's avatar)
 
^The choice leaked to the media. With the constant presence of media around 24/7 in this day, I'm amazed Obama was able to keep the choice a secret for as long as he did. Honestly, if anyone's going to get their feathers ruffled over something as trivial as this, (and I was a one who signed up for the text alert), they clearly have no grasp on what's important in this campaign. It wasn't a decision on the Obama campaign's part, but it happened. I would hope no one would be so immature as to get upset over it. :huh:

The bitterness of many of Hillary's supporters was somewhat understandable at first, but now it's just pathetic.
 
Just out of curiosity, if the primaries had turned out differently and they could have, would you have called some of Obama's black supporters who decided not to support a Clinton ticket or just not bothered to go out and vote pathetic or would you have thought some of their anger justified cause I would have. I don't think I would have called them pathetic under that circumstance. Is there a greater comfort level in calling a woman pathetic? Just asking.

By the way, calling them "pathetic" is not a very pragmatic strategy of bringing some of these women back to the fold.

Ah, that bitter thing again too. You guys need some versatility in word choice.

Obama was entitled to choose whomever he wanted to for vice-president. I never thought differently--which brings the thread back to topic. Nobody should be pissed about the text thing. It was a hyped-up technology gimmick that landed flat. I thought it was a pretty good PR idea. I also thought it wasn't a big deal, because even if it had worked, 2 seconds after the first text, it would have been all over the internet anyway. I was perfectly content to give the supporters that 2 second advantage. It would have been a pretty cool cultural event.
 
Of course you leave out the fact that 2 million Iraqis have fled the country and that the level of segregation has drastically increased. And Biden's plan was to have a limited central government, not to "chop it up".



He's from Scranton, Pa. actually, and is less liberal than Obama according to this analysis:

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/thefix/2007/03/mirror_mirror_on_the_wall_whos.html

Even the Iraq Study group rejected the idea of dividing up Iraq as Biden's proposes given how ethnically mixed the country is even today. Biden opposed the plan which has saved lives in Iraq and brought about dramatic improvements in Iraq's security, political, and economic environment.
 
I absolutely would feel the same way if the shoe was on the other foot. Obama won the nomination fair and square according to the Democratic party rules. I would've been disappointed had the situation been reversed, since I'm an Obama supporter. However, I would've gladly supported Hillary. How can one be angry at a situation like this, whether it would've turned out in Hillary's or Obama's favor? It's simply the way the election system is set up: We vote for the candidate of our choosing, but the candidate with the most votes wins. Barack Obama got more votes than Hillary Clinton under the rules of the DNC. There was nothing unfair about it. I'm a young woman myself, and I personally think that if a grand majority of the women who were supporting Hillary were doing so simply because she's a woman, they're missing the point. I was extremely proud that Hillary, as a woman, was able to come so far, but I didn't admire her because she's the same gender as me. I admired her because she was intelligent, courageous, and she fought to help the American people. These are some of the reasons I admire and support Obama. I'm not of the same race or gender as Obama, but I support him for his values and vision. We all know Hillary and Obama have very little difference in terms of policy and stances on the issues. If one was truly supporting either candidate on that basis, which I would hope any intelligent, informed citizen would do, it shouldn't be that difficult to support the other candidate regardless of which one captured the nomination.
 
Listening to McCain's communications people get interviewed makes me want to throw things at the TV.


Listening to McCain himself get interviewed or hearing him speak in any capacity makes me want to throw something at the TV. Usually, I fall into a deep sleep before I can reach over and pick something up, though. ZZzzzzzzzzz....
 
Anybody have any idea why MSNBC was advertising special saturday editions of Hardball and Countdown tonight at 8 but in the last few hours they are advertising only a two-hour edition of Hardball, no Countdown, instead?
 
Biden is not as safe as you think. He voted against the 1991 Gulf War to remove Saddam's military from Kuwait, a war that even the French actively supported with ground troops. His opinion on the whole issue was closer to that of Yemen and Cuba which voted against the UN resolution authorizing military force in the Security Council, than it was to the position of the rest of the members of the security council.

Didn't he also vote in favour of the 2003 Iraq invasion, in which case he got it wrong on both counts! 0 out of 2, not a good record. :no:

But overall, I think this is a fairly good choice by Obama.
 
41713769.jpg


:drool:
 
I absolutely would feel the same way if the shoe was on the other foot. Obama won the nomination fair and square according to the Democratic party rules. I would've been disappointed had the situation been reversed, since I'm an Obama supporter. However, I would've gladly supported Hillary.

I didn't ask if you would have supported Hillary if she had been the nominee.
I asked if you would find it appropriate to call a group of hypothetical black supporters of Obama (angry at a substantial pro Clinton media who used racial epithets against Obama) who chose to walk away from the election pathetic.
 
I asked if you would find it appropriate to call a group of hypothetical black supporters of Obama (angry at a substantial pro Clinton media who used racial epithets against Obama) who chose to walk away from the election pathetic.

This wasn't addressed to me, but I'll butt in anyway.

Probably. I think anybody who would throw a tantrum like that and essentially throw the election to a candidate who is not only substantially different from the party's nominee (and the party's nominee has positions that are exactly like the slighted candidate's), but has positions that are openly hostile to that person's social, ethnic, racial group, whatever, is pathetic, short-sighted, and self-centered. The stakes for all are just too high for that kind of snit.
 
I found myself taken aback as I read the results of MSNBC.com's poll inquiring about their readers' opinion of the Biden pick last night, just an hour or two after the news had broken. I was taken aback by the comments of a handful of those who had voted that they thought Biden was the wrong choice. They were Hilary supporters, and each one, in one way or another, said that Biden was a bad choice and that Obama should have picked Hilary, and 'sorry but he[Obama] just lost my vote'.

I don't know how many of you are out there that share this viewpoint, but I beg of you, please, come to your senses!

Do you not understand that all the indications are that Senator Clinton did NOT. WANT. TO. BE. V. P.? And that the reason is that there are certain financial records that the Clintons don't want to give up? And that in all likelihood Senators Obama and Clinton agreed that it wasn't going to happen MONTHS ago, as Senator Clinton was preparing to concede? She didn't want it, and yet a staggering number of you are acting as if Senator Clinton was just waiting for Senator Obama's call, and Senator Obama just snubbed her. This is a fantasy that you have made up, perhaps in an attempt to justify your decision to vote for Senator McCain in November.

You are behaving like sore losers. That candidate that wins your heart doesn't always win the election. Some us are still infuriated about Al Gore's loss in 2000, but we eventually had to move on. And Senator Clinton didn't have an election stolen from her by a partisan Supreme Court either. She simply lost, fair and square - it's not as if there's any foul play to be pissed off about. When the candidate that wins your heart loses, you have to move on to the next best thing - the candidate that wins your mind even if not your heart. The broad strokes of Senator Obama's policies and Senator Clinton's policies are essentially identical for the most part. Yet you want to vote for the guy who stands for everything your own candidate was fighting and will continue to fight for?

I have searched and searched for a rational explanation for this, and I can only think of one: The majority of you are women, and you are afraid that you won't see another woman come along in your lifetime capable of winning the presidency of this country. It's possible that some of you have projected all of the hope you've ever had of women making it in a world of men onto Senator Clinton, and that when she was defeated, you felt it as not only a rejection of her, but a rejection of women in a world of men, period. Perhaps this is understandable. Perhaps, as a guy, it is impossible for me to really know what it's like to be a woman in a man's world. I accept that.

But can't you see that if Senator Obama, a black man, were to be elected president, that that would do more to clear a path for women to be elected in the future than anything else ever has in the history of this nation? It would be a historic, barrier-breaking declaration that you don't have to be a white male to be elected president anymore. It would be a turning point in our history, the point where we, as a people, started crossing out the superficial limitations of race and gender among others that have been pre-requisite to the highest office in the land for so long.

And you would rather Senator McCain win? So that not only will the country continue to be run on policy that contradicts everything your own candidate stands for, but also that we as a people will send the world the message that, even when a black man and a woman got this far, we STILL couldn't bring ourselves to do it, that we just elected yet another white man, and that, when we had the chance of a lifetime to shatter the so-called glass ceiling, we instead opted to call a repair man to come in and fix the cracks that Senators Obama and Clinton have worked so hard for the past year and a half to make? Is that REALLY what you want?

I don't think it is. My great fear is that just enough of you will go to the polls in November and with Senator Clinton's loss still stinging, vote for Senator McCain, thinking that not enough of you will vote for him to actually give him victory, and then at 3AM the next morning, when all the news networks are calling the election for Senator McCain, you will be staring at your TV with an unsatisfied, sinking feeling, as you slowly come to the realization of what you've done - that your bitterness and disappointment over Senator Clinton's loss will have led you to put a man in the Oval Office that will spend at least four years doing everything he can to move the country in the opposite direction of where Senator Clinton and Senator Obama would want to take it. And that two years later, you'll find yourselves pissed off at McCain's policies the same way you've been pissed off at George Bush's policies, and you'll be kicking yourself for not voting for Obama, only then, it'll be too late.

To vote McCain out of spite like that - to quote something Chris Matthews said a couple months ago - would be a ridiculous way to use the vote for which people fought and died.

Don't let that happen. I don't think you truly want to. So please, listen to what Senator and President Clinton say at the convention this week - their speeches will more than likely be primarily geared to give you their blessing and encouragement to vote for Senator Obama - and please, please, think, really think, about what you're doing long and hard before you go to the polls in November. The direction this country goes in may will depend on it.
 
i just find the whole fractured party thing mind boggling. To not vote for a candidate simply because you wanted another one running, but you still support the same ideas, is ludicrious. If McCain wins the election, the USA has something seriously rotten going on with its people.
 
I found myself taken aback as I read the results of MSNBC.com's poll
But can't you see that if Senator Obama, a black man, were to be elected president, that that would do more to clear a path for women to be elected in the future than anything else ever has in the history of this nation?

If one would like to see a woman President they should vote for McCain

In 2012 Hillary will be the odds on favorite.

That will not be the case if Obama is elected.
 
If one would like to see a woman President they should vote for McCain

In 2012 Hillary will be the odds on favorite.

That will not be the case if Obama is elected.

No one can accurately predict that outcome. There are so many variables that could come into play between now and 2012 that could nullify this little scenario, that to vote in this election based on anticipating a Hillary win in 2012 is far too risky, and just plain foolish.


Excellent post, namkcuR.
 
So how about that Biden?


:lol:

There will be at least one spin-off, don't worry :D

He had to pick Biden, don't think he had much of a choice there among those who were being considered. It's weird- I remember posting a long time ago about his comment about Obama being bright, clean, and articulate and all that. Now he's the VP. I wonder if McCain will actually dare to make an ad using that quote..

Also I watched some of Fox News' coverage of Biden, that Neil Cavuto kept harping over and over about Biden's "compound" and his "Hyde Parklike" driveway. They are so pathetic.
 
In my opinion -

The BEST CANDIDATE for the president would be Hillary Clinton. That would make her the best choice for VP. And I predicted a LONG LONG time ago, that this party would fracture based on the Hillary Obama race. This was another reason, she should have been the choice as she should have chosen him if she had won.

Maybe he next election they will not use proportional delegates to pick the candidate.
 
i loved ur post namkcuR... Well said.

I too, can't get over the fact that the Clinton supporters are so upset about their loss that they are going to vote for McCain just because their candidate lost. That's really supporting the democratic cause... not!
To me, it's childish and immature. My candidate lost so f-you i am gonna vote for the other party, so there...nanner, nanner, nanner... *sticks out tongue*


shit, I am a woman too and thought wow if Hillary were to become president what a amazing earth shattering historical event that would be. When she lost well, I was disappointed but hey, I didn't throw a fit and stamp my feet and say, well I am not voting for Obama then I am going to vote for a Republican whose policies, values and views go against everything that I believe in for the next four years. :huh:

I completely support Obama and will vote for him in Nov.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NrQ36Djf2E

Fox News

In a blistering new ad, John McCain’s campaign accused Barack Obama of passing over Hillary Clinton as his running mate because she pointed out his flaws during the Democratic primaries.

Obama announced Delaware Sen. Joe Biden as his vice presidential pick Saturday, following reports that Clinton was not even vetted for the job.

McCain’s ad capitalizes on the lingering tension between Obama and Clinton’s supporters, with just one day remaining until the Democratic National Convention in Denver.

“She won millions of votes. But isn’t on his ticket. Why? For speaking the truth,” the narrator in the ad says.

The ad then quotes Clinton criticizing Obama for being vague and “increasingly negative.”

“The truth hurt. And Obama didn’t like it,” the narrator says.

Clinton’s supporters have had mixed reactions over Obama’s selection of Biden, but some felt flat-out dissed – even though in recent weeks, few insiders believed Clinton to be a realistic choice for Obama.

Some Clinton supporters even speculated that the Obama campaign delivered the text message announcing his decision at 3 a.m. as payback for Clinton’s primary-season “3 a.m.” ad questioning his judgment in a crisis.

McCain’s ad not only targets Clinton’s disenchanted supporters, but it also plays into his theme that Obama is a fussy celebrity.

The Arizona senator’s campaign has gone after Obama hard for his selection of Biden, underscoring Biden’s own criticism of Obama, and the experience gap they allege Obama was trying to fill by choosing the seasoned chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee as his running mate.

The Republican National Committee even posted a “countdown” clock on its Web site ticking off the “time until Biden’s next gaffe.”

The Republican Party claimed Biden’s first gaffe came when he called Obama “Barack America” during their appearance together in Springfield, Ill., Saturday.

But McCain also told CBS News he thinks Biden is a “wise selection” and “very formidable.”
Speculation turned instantly to McCain and whom he would choose as a running mate to counter Biden.

Most experts consider the leading contender to be former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney, who dropped his presidential bid earlier this year, and Minnesota Gov. Tim Pawlenty.

His campaign claims Obama’s selection will having no bearing on its own running-mate decision.

McCain is expected to make the announcement at a rally on Friday, Aug. 29, one day after the Democratic convention ends, potentially minimizing Obama’s post-convention bounce in the polls.

Meanwhile, the Clintons, who are both set to speak at the Denver convention, swiftly issued statements in support of Obama after his running-mate decision was made.

“Senator Biden will be a purposeful and dynamic vice president who will help Senator Obama both win the presidency and govern this great country,” Hillary Clinton said.

Bill Clinton’s office released a statement saying the former president “continues to be committed to doing whatever he can to ensure that Senator Obama is the next president of the United States.”

But with a roll-call vote for Hillary Clinton set for the convention, the spectacle could revive some of the divisiveness that characterized the Democratic primary season.

Biden was not a favorite among Democratic delegates to be Obama’s vice presidential pick.
In a CBS News/New York Times poll from Aug. 18, 28 percent of those surveyed said Clinton would be their top choice.

Biden trailed at 6 percent.
 
I have heard a weird rumor that McCain is contemplating picking Hillary.
 
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