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Old 08-24-2008, 09:31 PM   #391
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I will just contribute that when Obama makes an appearance like this, dark suit, tie, flag pin -
American flag in the back ground, he has a much better chance of picking up a few undecided voters.

It may seem silly. But there really is a "Presidential image" that some people prefer.

And if his fickle young supporters think this is 'selling out'.

Than they should run Obama for something else.

and not something as 'traditional" as POTUS.
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Old 08-24-2008, 09:41 PM   #392
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Originally Posted by Dreadsox View Post
If you read back....

My comment was in response to another statement.....

And I resent being called "you people" when you quote me.

If you think voting strictly party lines is in the best interest of a country all times, then your loyalty is to a party and not the country.

If you can show me where I have EVER consistently thrown around the word traitor, let me know. I will take back my statement. But personally I find you and a few others' hatred of McCain to be so blinding....it is pointless to engage in a discussion.
I don't hate McCain. That would take entirely too much effort. Do I dislike him and think he has no character at the moment? Pretty much yeah.

When did I say that you "consistently" threw around that word? I even said specifically on this thread! I didn't, you manufactured that so you could be outraged, I can only presume. So please feel free to take back your statement now. I do think that you actually like taking offense by reading things into people's statements. This is a wonderful example.

I quoted you because you were the last person above my post who used the term. I was too lazy to quote all the others, but that's why I said you people so that you wouldn't think I was talking about you only.
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Old 08-24-2008, 10:27 PM   #393
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deep View Post
I will just contribute that when Obama makes an appearance like this, dark suit, tie, flag pin -
American flag in the back ground, he has a much better chance of picking up a few undecided voters.

It may seem silly. But there really is a "Presidential image" that some people prefer.

And if his fickle young supporters think this is 'selling out'.

Than they should run Obama for something else.

and not something as 'traditional" as POTUS.
isn't it a shame that his skin color is permanent?
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Old 08-25-2008, 12:18 AM   #394
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isn't it a shame that his skin color is permanent?
why?

do you think a black man should not be president?
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Old 08-25-2008, 12:25 AM   #395
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Originally Posted by deep View Post



I will just contribute that when Obama makes an appearance like this, dark suit, tie, flag pin -
American flag in the back ground, he has a much better chance of picking up a few undecided voters.

It may seem silly. But there really is a "Presidential image" that some people prefer.

And if his fickle young supporters think this is 'selling out'.

Than they should run Obama for something else.

and not something as 'traditional" as POTUS.
George Bush looked real commanding and presidential standing on the 9/11 rubble pile, during MISSION ACCOMPLISHED, and gazing steel-eyed into the camera warning Saddam Hussein to leave Iraq. I think he always had a flag pin.

And yet

maybe meaningless symbols haven't served us that well the last 8 years. Hopefully this year, whatever their choice, the voters decide on content.
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Old 08-25-2008, 12:35 AM   #396
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George Bush looked real commanding and presidential standing on the 9/11 rubble pile, during MISSION ACCOMPLISHED, and gazing steel-eyed into the camera warning Saddam Hussein to leave Iraq. I think he always had a flag pin.
Did you miss the parts where I have said W is the worst President ever and that I never thought he was qualified. I never voted for him. I voted for Gore, Kerry.

and you do realize that W barely got elected.

do you think if he looked just a little less Presidential,
that perhaps he might have lost?


and did you read what I wrote
that presenting the right image could sway a few undecideds Obama's way?

Do you want him to lose?
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Old 08-25-2008, 12:52 AM   #397
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Did you miss the parts where I have said W is the worst President ever and that I never thought he was qualified. I never voted for him. I voted for Gore, Kerry.

and you do realize that W barely got elected.

do you think if he looked just a little less Presidential,
that perhaps he might have lost?


and did you read what I wrote
that presenting the right image could sway a few undecideds Obama's way?

Do you want him to lose?
I wasn't trying to call you a W lover or accuse you of anything else. Sorry if it sounded that way. Just trying to make the point that calling such basis for picking the President "silly" makes it sound more carefree and innocent then it really is.
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Old 08-25-2008, 01:01 AM   #398
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sure, no problem

I have been watching these Presidential elections pretty close for many years now

I was really disappointed at what determined people's choice in 2000


I am just calling these things as I perceive them


I think I get some of it right and some of it wrong

of course, I think I am getting it right more of the time than not.
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Old 08-25-2008, 09:37 AM   #399
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why?

do you think a black man should not be president?
just pointing out that he will never fit the "presidential image" that some people prefer.
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Old 08-25-2008, 10:28 AM   #400
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Kind of changing the topic ....

The more I think about it, the more I'm liking Biden as Obama's VP. I can't imagine a ticket with two sitting senators doing real well. With an approval rating in the low teens, I think most people will perceive these two guys as being part of the problem. Plus I think it takes away any attack on McCain's age, who is only 5 or 6 years older than Biden.

Obama, Biden, and McCain are all sitting senators who have never run a business, a state, or presided over an economy. This is why I think McCain would benefit tremendously from picking a governor, hopefully Mitt Romney, who along with having done all of the above, is a Washington outsider and not viewed as part of the problem.
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Old 08-25-2008, 10:32 AM   #401
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this thread is why Republicans win presidential elections.

they suck it up and get in line and cast their votes. they're pragmatic, and they know how to prioritize, and they know that idealistic notions about the "best" candidate are for fools and suckers.

man up, Democrats. stop pretending that this is a democracy or that your voice and vote are heard and that doing what's right is some sort of moral victory instead of doing what is necessary. especially after Cheney vastly expanded the powers of the executive branch over the past 8 years, we're not voting for a president, we're essentially electing a monarch.

get it right.
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Old 08-25-2008, 12:58 PM   #402
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this thread is why Republicans win presidential elections.

they suck it up and get in line and cast their votes. they're pragmatic, and they know how to prioritize, and they know that idealistic notions about the "best" candidate are for fools and suckers.

man up, Democrats. stop pretending that this is a democracy or that your voice and vote are heard and that doing what's right is some sort of moral victory instead of doing what is necessary. especially after Cheney vastly expanded the powers of the executive branch over the past 8 years, we're not voting for a president, we're essentially electing a monarch.

get it right.
Indeed.
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Old 08-25-2008, 03:52 PM   #403
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Indeed.


sorry to be so brutal about it, but it's true.

Obama only needs to retain the same % of Democrats that Kerry got. if he gets that, he wins. that's what the current math says, even in light of some small poll increases by McCain in the past week or so.
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Old 08-25-2008, 03:56 PM   #404
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Originally Posted by Se7en View Post
just pointing out that he will never fit the "presidential image" that some people prefer.
Which people?
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Old 08-25-2008, 04:38 PM   #405
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Had the situation been reversed, with Hillary winning the nomination, I'm sure that a lot of African Americans would be very angry that Obama didn't win, and as a result would likely not vote in the election. Few would vote for McCain. Either option though, would show that these African American voters, like many of Hillary's female supporters, were voting for their candidate for the wrong reasons.
I don't think that's a fair conclusion. In the analogy being made, the main motive for these hypothetical African-American voters staying home would be that they can't conscience voting for a party that failed to speak up when racist jibes were employed in the media (by Democrats no less) against one of its own candidates. That doesn't prove anything one way or the other about why they preferred Obama. I do agree with you otherwise, and to the extent that I can imagine myself in their place, I do believe that in the end, I'd grit my teeth, then go ahead and vote for the candidate whose platform I find the best for our country, despite my grievances with his/her party's apparent tolerance for racist attacks on candidates. Because it really does become a lesser of two evils choice at that point (and for many, that's all elections ever are anyway). But I don't think it's fair to say that deciding otherwise demonstrates having preferred one primary candidate over the other for the wrong reasons. And personally I wouldn't describe that decision as pathetic--shortsighted, perhaps dangerously so, but not pathetic. It isn't childish to be deeply angered by a refusal to take racism or sexism seriously.
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