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Old 08-23-2008, 01:50 PM   #331
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I think Obama made a great choice. I've heard people going on about how Biden isn't a fresh face, so to speak, and if Obama really was about change he'd pick someone on the margins. However, we as Americans as we've seen throughout history, are often resistant to change at first. Picking a running mate from out of left field would alienate the people that might like Obama but feel he's too grandiose in his goals. Biden represents stability, and he's already established himself as one of the most respected members of the Senate. He's well versed in foreign policy and will be able to get through to the "older" part of the Washington crowd that doesn't want to leave the status quo.
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Old 08-23-2008, 02:31 PM   #332
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My friend got his text message at 3:16 am. I emailed him at 2:00 am with the pick and since I had a late night, I assume the info came out a while before I knew. That didn't work well.


What of the promise from Obama that his supporters* would be the first to know?



*(looks at BonosSaint's avatar)
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Old 08-23-2008, 02:47 PM   #333
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^The choice leaked to the media. With the constant presence of media around 24/7 in this day, I'm amazed Obama was able to keep the choice a secret for as long as he did. Honestly, if anyone's going to get their feathers ruffled over something as trivial as this, (and I was a one who signed up for the text alert), they clearly have no grasp on what's important in this campaign. It wasn't a decision on the Obama campaign's part, but it happened. I would hope no one would be so immature as to get upset over it.

The bitterness of many of Hillary's supporters was somewhat understandable at first, but now it's just pathetic.
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Old 08-23-2008, 03:09 PM   #334
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Just out of curiosity, if the primaries had turned out differently and they could have, would you have called some of Obama's black supporters who decided not to support a Clinton ticket or just not bothered to go out and vote pathetic or would you have thought some of their anger justified cause I would have. I don't think I would have called them pathetic under that circumstance. Is there a greater comfort level in calling a woman pathetic? Just asking.

By the way, calling them "pathetic" is not a very pragmatic strategy of bringing some of these women back to the fold.

Ah, that bitter thing again too. You guys need some versatility in word choice.

Obama was entitled to choose whomever he wanted to for vice-president. I never thought differently--which brings the thread back to topic. Nobody should be pissed about the text thing. It was a hyped-up technology gimmick that landed flat. I thought it was a pretty good PR idea. I also thought it wasn't a big deal, because even if it had worked, 2 seconds after the first text, it would have been all over the internet anyway. I was perfectly content to give the supporters that 2 second advantage. It would have been a pretty cool cultural event.
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Old 08-23-2008, 03:41 PM   #335
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Of course you leave out the fact that 2 million Iraqis have fled the country and that the level of segregation has drastically increased. And Biden's plan was to have a limited central government, not to "chop it up".



He's from Scranton, Pa. actually, and is less liberal than Obama according to this analysis:

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/thefi...wall_whos.html
Even the Iraq Study group rejected the idea of dividing up Iraq as Biden's proposes given how ethnically mixed the country is even today. Biden opposed the plan which has saved lives in Iraq and brought about dramatic improvements in Iraq's security, political, and economic environment.
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Old 08-23-2008, 03:52 PM   #336
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I absolutely would feel the same way if the shoe was on the other foot. Obama won the nomination fair and square according to the Democratic party rules. I would've been disappointed had the situation been reversed, since I'm an Obama supporter. However, I would've gladly supported Hillary. How can one be angry at a situation like this, whether it would've turned out in Hillary's or Obama's favor? It's simply the way the election system is set up: We vote for the candidate of our choosing, but the candidate with the most votes wins. Barack Obama got more votes than Hillary Clinton under the rules of the DNC. There was nothing unfair about it. I'm a young woman myself, and I personally think that if a grand majority of the women who were supporting Hillary were doing so simply because she's a woman, they're missing the point. I was extremely proud that Hillary, as a woman, was able to come so far, but I didn't admire her because she's the same gender as me. I admired her because she was intelligent, courageous, and she fought to help the American people. These are some of the reasons I admire and support Obama. I'm not of the same race or gender as Obama, but I support him for his values and vision. We all know Hillary and Obama have very little difference in terms of policy and stances on the issues. If one was truly supporting either candidate on that basis, which I would hope any intelligent, informed citizen would do, it shouldn't be that difficult to support the other candidate regardless of which one captured the nomination.
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Old 08-23-2008, 04:22 PM   #337
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Listening to McCain's communications people get interviewed makes me want to throw things at the TV.
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Old 08-23-2008, 05:06 PM   #338
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Listening to McCain's communications people get interviewed makes me want to throw things at the TV.

Listening to McCain himself get interviewed or hearing him speak in any capacity makes me want to throw something at the TV. Usually, I fall into a deep sleep before I can reach over and pick something up, though. ZZzzzzzzzzz....
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Old 08-23-2008, 05:15 PM   #339
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Anybody have any idea why MSNBC was advertising special saturday editions of Hardball and Countdown tonight at 8 but in the last few hours they are advertising only a two-hour edition of Hardball, no Countdown, instead?
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Old 08-23-2008, 08:06 PM   #340
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Bush is a bad man, but assuming that he's stupid is the biggest mistake the Dems every made. It's what cost you guys two Presidential elections.
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Old 08-23-2008, 08:08 PM   #341
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Biden is not as safe as you think. He voted against the 1991 Gulf War to remove Saddam's military from Kuwait, a war that even the French actively supported with ground troops. His opinion on the whole issue was closer to that of Yemen and Cuba which voted against the UN resolution authorizing military force in the Security Council, than it was to the position of the rest of the members of the security council.
Didn't he also vote in favour of the 2003 Iraq invasion, in which case he got it wrong on both counts! 0 out of 2, not a good record.

But overall, I think this is a fairly good choice by Obama.
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Old 08-23-2008, 09:25 PM   #342
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Old 08-23-2008, 10:56 PM   #343
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I absolutely would feel the same way if the shoe was on the other foot. Obama won the nomination fair and square according to the Democratic party rules. I would've been disappointed had the situation been reversed, since I'm an Obama supporter. However, I would've gladly supported Hillary.
I didn't ask if you would have supported Hillary if she had been the nominee.
I asked if you would find it appropriate to call a group of hypothetical black supporters of Obama (angry at a substantial pro Clinton media who used racial epithets against Obama) who chose to walk away from the election pathetic.
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Old 08-23-2008, 11:09 PM   #344
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I asked if you would find it appropriate to call a group of hypothetical black supporters of Obama (angry at a substantial pro Clinton media who used racial epithets against Obama) who chose to walk away from the election pathetic.
This wasn't addressed to me, but I'll butt in anyway.

Probably. I think anybody who would throw a tantrum like that and essentially throw the election to a candidate who is not only substantially different from the party's nominee (and the party's nominee has positions that are exactly like the slighted candidate's), but has positions that are openly hostile to that person's social, ethnic, racial group, whatever, is pathetic, short-sighted, and self-centered. The stakes for all are just too high for that kind of snit.
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Old 08-23-2008, 11:12 PM   #345
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Ah, then you are consistent. I don't always find that consistency.
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