2008 U.S. Presidential Election: Vice-Presidential Debate

[toscano]

Anyone else not like being referred to as "Joe six pack" ??

interesting - Sarah Palin's Lies

 

[Strongbow]

I doubt Sarah Palin would have made the same mistake, that being probably the first time she'd ever even heard of Hezbollah.

That is certainly what you would like to think, but with Biden, we continue to hear about things that never happened.

 

[purpleoscar]

Really?

What do you think of Joe Bidens words below:



I hope you didn't pay attention to the above because it is flat out WRONG!

The United States and France NEVER kicked Hezbollah out of Lebanon! Biden never introduced a resolution to deploy NATO forces to Lebanon. Hezbollah was already apart of the government in Lebanon long before Bush was elected President.

Barack Obama picked Joe Biden because of his "knowledge and experience". Ironic that if Sarah Palin had made the same mistake, people in here would be foaming at the mouth, but Joe Biden makes an out of this world mistake like this, and he gets a free pass, despite the fact that he has been in the Senate for 35 years to Sarah Palin's 35 days on the campaign trail.

 

[phillyfan26]

We cannot play the same "Fact vs. Fiction" game with Palin because she didn't say anything of substance.

I'd prefer the guy who says a lot and is occasionally wrong to the person who says nothing and still hasn't shown America she has any knowledge or viewpoints.

 

[purpleoscar]

We cannot play the same "Fact vs. Fiction" game with Palin because she didn't say anything of substance.

I'd prefer the guy who says a lot and is occasionally wrong to the person who says nothing and still hasn't shown America she has any knowledge or viewpoints.

She wants to control spending and keep taxes low. She doesn't want a timeline for Iraq so insurgents can plan an attack somewhere. She wants the counter-insurgency tactics in Iraq to be applied in Afghanistan. She wants updated regulation for the latest derivatives and to prevent companies hiding debt off of the balance sheet. She let the public know that they should think about not living above their means. She wants to increase the supply of energy to keep costs reasonable. She wants to allow the pursuit of alternative energies. She wants drilling in ANWR vs. McCain who needs convincing still. She is okay with a progression to give more rights to homosexual couples as long as the definition of marriage stays the same. She doesn't want to have presidential meetings with dictators without preconditions.

To conservatives there is substance. To liberals the above is not substance because they don't agree with it.

 

[Diemen]

She wants to control spending

Spending $14.7 million on a rec center for a town with an annual budget of $20 million doesn't seem like controlled spending to me

She doesn't want a timeline for Iraq so insurgents can plan an attack somewhere. She wants the counter-insurgency tactics in Iraq to be applied in Afghanistan. She wants updated regulation for the latest derivatives and to prevent companies hiding debt off of the balance sheet...

It's funny, but you'd think that in her years in politics prior to joining the McCain campaign she would've had the opportunity to share her opinion on these matters. She didn't. Given her relative ineptitude at actually answering direct questions in relation to those, and her reliance on tried and true McCain campaign talking points to get her through, I sincerely doubt those are her own stances and not the stances the McCain campaign has asked her to voice. You'd think if these were really her own stances she'd be able to comfortably discuss and elaborate on them beyond the talking point that's in lock step with the McCain campaign. She hasn't shown that capability yet, and so she demonstrates a lack of substance to many here and elsewhere.

And finally...

To liberals the above is not substance because they don't agree with it.

You really need to stop making statements about what liberals think and or believe. You're hardly an expert on the matter.

 

[purpleoscar]

Spending $14.7 million on a rec center for a town with an annual budget of $20 million doesn't seem like controlled spending to me

It's funny, but you'd think that in her years in politics prior to joining the McCain campaign she would've had the opportunity to share her opinion on these matters. She didn't. Given her relative ineptitude at actually answering direct questions in relation to those, and her reliance on tried and true McCain campaign talking points to get her through, I sincerely doubt those are her own stances and not the stances the McCain campaign has asked her to voice. You'd think if these were really her own stances she'd be able to comfortably discuss and elaborate on them beyond the talking point that's in lock step with the McCain campaign. She hasn't shown that capability yet, and so she demonstrates a lack of substance to many here and elsewhere.

And finally...

You really need to stop making statements about what liberals think and or believe. You're hardly an expert on the matter.

I make whatever statements I want slick. Who are you trying to fool? Conservatives have opinions on liberals just like liberals have opinions on conservatives. Most of the people on this board are liberals and it seems you guys want nothing but comfortable agreement. Should I start demanding you to be an expert on conservative views before you air your opinion? Get over it Mr. Ego.

Considering that most of the United States has a horrible record of spending she would be a good place to start. Looking at her Alaskan record as governor is not of note to you I suppose. She has to have a perfect budget and she can't change her mind over the years. She wanted the Bridge to nowhere at first but changed her mind and moved on since then. Her recent accomplishments are the reason for her as a VP pick.

Maybe if Obama didn't make any spending promises and decided to use tax increases to balance the budget I would be convinced he's better but he didn't. Anyways how do you get more tax revenue by increasing taxes in a recession? You have to have a gain on your income statement to pay taxes. Palin understands increasing taxes on businesses to give middle class tax breaks punish production and reward consumer spending. Corporations provide jobs. She understands the American public need to personally control their spending which is something the government can only give incentives for at best.

She stays on McCain talking points because she's the VP. She's supporting the presidential candidate. Even Biden has to follow talking points despite disagreeing with Obama in the past. When he made comments about clean coal he had to make an about face to match Obama. Actually Biden was intelligent enough to know that he wasn't the best pick for VP from his own words. Most of his hard hitting was attacking Bush and loading the entire blame of the economy on Republicans. If Democrats win with that line that will be an incredible magic trick.

The debt certainly increased for other reasons that republicans can be blamed for but democrats like the increased entitlement spending, and haven't done anything in the past 2 years to stop it. It looks like the only change that will happen is when the conservative wing of the Republican party actually takes over and stops copying democrats.

Tell me how Obama is going to balance the budget. I'd like to hear this. There must be an explanation.

 

[Diemen]

Considering that most of the United States has a horrible record of spending she would be a good place to start. Looking at her Alaskan record as governor is not of note to you I suppose. She has to have a perfect budget and she can't change her mind over the years. She wanted the Bridge to nowhere at first but changed her mind and moved on since then. Her recent accomplishments are the reason for her as a VP pick.

Funny. I seem to remember a big deal being made when she first joined the campaign about he she was against earmarks, despite the fact that as governor of Alaska she held the largest per capita earmark spending out of any other governor. That certainly doesn't seem like a change of heart. And then even she herself used the bridge to nowhere as an example of her stance against earmarks. Oh, expect she neglected to mention that she was initially in favor of it, and very vocal about her support, too.

She understands the American public need to personally control their spending

Is this supposed to be some unique, especially insightful view of hers? It's common sense.

When it comes to balancing the budget, I find it extremely funny to hear anyone who has supported the current Republican party & the party of the past 8 years trying to paint the Democrats as the ones we should worry about when it comes to spending. If I recall correctly, Bill Clinton, a Democrat and one of those nasty liberals, didn't do too shabby when it came to balancing the budget. The Republican Party hasn't been the party of small government in a long, long time.

She stays on McCain talking points because she's the VP. She's supporting the presidential candidate. Even Biden has to follow talking points despite disagreeing with Obama in the past.

She stays on the McCain talking points because she isn't knowledgeable enough to expand on them. Biden showed he is comfortably actually relating real world issues to the talking points and expanding on them. Palin did not.

 

[diamond]

Biden showed he is comfortably actually relating real world issues to the talking points and expanding on them. Palin did not.

Yeah that's right Hamas=Hezballoh



<>

 

[anitram]

They have to do a lot with personal responsibility and not waiting around for the government to solve problems through social welfare programs.

I find that interesting because the people that get branded as elitist by this group are usually the ones who spent a lot of $ on their educations, and who work in highly paid industries and pay the highest taxes in the land. They are certainly not waiting around for welfare and probably have never relied on it.

 

[Diemen]

Yeah that's right Hamas=Hezballoh



<>

Keep trying, good buddy

 

[phillyfan26]

How is McCain going to "cut spending" if he's spending so much money in Iraq? That's the biggest money problem we have. I wish Obama and Biden would note that more.

 

[U2democrat]

Obama's in town today, and I have a VIP pass to go see him

They're expecting 50,000, with room for only 10,000. This is going to be interesting.

If my parents can get tickets it looks like I'll be seeing Biden tomorrow too


Living in a swing state is insanity. I'm not used to this kind of attention!

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

I think Jacoby Ellsbury winked at me last night too-or maybe he just had dirt in his eye


The Corner on National Review Online


A very wise TV executive once told me that the key to TV is projecting through the screen. It's one of the keys to the success of, say, a Bill O'Reilly, who comes through the screen and grabs you by the throat. Palin too projects through the screen like crazy. I'm sure I'm not the only male in America who, when Palin dropped her first wink, sat up a little straighter on the couch and said, "Hey, I think she just winked at me." And her smile. By the end, when she clearly knew she was doing well, it was so sparkling it was almost mesmerizing. It sent little starbursts through the screen and ricocheting around the living rooms of America. This is a quality that can't be learned; it's either something you have or you don't, and man, she's got it.

 

[U2Fanatic4ever]

Laura,
good luck and have a blast! Living in a swing state=fun. tell us all about it when you get back..

 

[Se7en]

Living in a swing state is insanity. I'm not used to this kind of attention!

i thank god every morning that i don't live in a swing state. ray:

 

[purpleoscar]

Funny. I seem to remember a big deal being made when she first joined the campaign about he she was against earmarks, despite the fact that as governor of Alaska she held the largest per capita earmark spending out of any other governor. That certainly doesn't seem like a change of heart. And then even she herself used the bridge to nowhere as an example of her stance against earmarks. Oh, expect she neglected to mention that she was initially in favor of it, and very vocal about her support, too.

Alaska has a small population that still requires lots of infrastructure, but she also had a person before her who wanted huge spending. At least she spend much less than him and was willing to fight corruption. I'm sure Alaska has a way to go but she wasn't there long enough. Better to use her talents as a possible future president than just Alaska.

Is this supposed to be some unique, especially insightful view of hers? It's common sense.

Commonly people aren't pursuing that. The savings rate is historically low. She better mention it or else people will continue blaming only politicians and ignore their responsibility. Scapegoating is a pastime for some people. If you control your spending then you are in the smart minority.

When it comes to balancing the budget, I find it extremely funny to hear anyone who has supported the current Republican party & the party of the past 8 years trying to paint the Democrats as the ones we should worry about when it comes to spending. If I recall correctly, Bill Clinton, a Democrat and one of those nasty liberals, didn't do too shabby when it came to balancing the budget. The Republican Party hasn't been the party of small government in a long, long time.

Yeah they weren't a party of small government since the Clinton era where they pushed moving welfare to the states and time limits on welfare plus controlling spending. I'm sure Clinton was happy being there during the Contract with America years. It makes him look good. At least he didn't use his line item veto on them. I'll give him credit for that. Many conservatives only pursued the Republican party because Democrats promised more spending and were in the "cut 'n run" attitude on the war. Anyways what has the house done recently? What is Obama's plan? What is the House's plan? Obama said McCain's idea of a spending freeze is a hatchet and only a scapel is necessary. What does that mean in concrete terms. He wants more spending and more taxes. The taxes better be enough to cover the new spending. America's debt is so bad now that we have to go back to the end of WWII to see worse. Much of that debt wasn't the war but spending entitlements for health care and education which Democrats thought weren't enough. When the Republicans moved to the left the Democrats often move farther to the left to be in competition. I disagree with past Republicans on that. Maybe if the Democrats moved to the right on spending control they would gain some conservatives. Actually that would be a smart move for Obama if he made his campaign about controlling spending faster than McCain by using the tax increases, but he would have to reduce spending promises. I'm not sure he wants to cut those promises.

She stays on the McCain talking points because she isn't knowledgeable enough to expand on them. Biden showed he is comfortably actually relating real world issues to the talking points and expanding on them. Palin did not.

Yeah but lots of what Biden said was just backtracking from comments he had before or useless opinions about the war which the democratic party was way behind on. His small town Home Depot comments weren't even accurate. The guy is out of touch. Quantity doesn't mean much without quality. Their focus is not going to war in the first place and making it harder to do so in the future. That only makes sense if Russia, Iran, Venezuela, N. Korea and others act this way as well.

If the Obama campaign thinks anything like this thread:

http://forum.interference.com/f199/mahmoud-ahmadinejad-at-the-general-assembly-189884.html

Then the republicans are right about Obama being weak on foreign policy and can't be trusted.

JohnMcCain.com - McCain-Palin 2008

Sarah Palin's Lies

These will be the talking points on both sides from now on until the other debates.

 

[BVS]

Tell me how Obama is going to balance the budget. I'd like to hear this. There must be an explanation.

Has either one of the canidates even mentioned balancing the budget? I know for sure McCain hasn't, you can't promise years in Iraq, tax cuts, and balanced budget; even with conservative fuzzy math, that doesn't work.

 

[namkcuR]

I think Jacoby Ellsbury winked at me last night too-or maybe he just had dirt in his eye


The Corner on National Review Online


A very wise TV executive once told me that the key to TV is projecting through the screen. It's one of the keys to the success of, say, a Bill O'Reilly, who comes through the screen and grabs you by the throat. Palin too projects through the screen like crazy. I'm sure I'm not the only male in America who, when Palin dropped her first wink, sat up a little straighter on the couch and said, "Hey, I think she just winked at me." And her smile. By the end, when she clearly knew she was doing well, it was so sparkling it was almost mesmerizing. It sent little starbursts through the screen and ricocheting around the living rooms of America. This is a quality that can't be learned; it's either something you have or you don't, and man, she's got it.

This guy was Olbermann's 'Worst Person In The World' last night.

 

[bonoman]

I think he's discribing Keith Olbermann in that comment as well. Keiths just like Bill, with the only difference being I agree with his POV more.

Oh an Keith is a lot funnier and doesn't take himself as serious. He knows he's there for entertainment and that's it.

 

[Strongbow]

How is McCain going to "cut spending" if he's spending so much money in Iraq? That's the biggest money problem we have. I wish Obama and Biden would note that more.

McCain knows that withdrawing prematurely from Iraq would be a mistake and would end up costing the United States more in the long run as the US would risk having to send large numbers of troops back to the region. McCain supports only withdrawing troops from Iraq as conditions warrent it.

General David Petraeus has been promoted to CENTCOM commander and is now in charge of Iraq and Afghanistan. If Obama happens to win and takes office in January 2009, he would be wise to listen to General Petraeus and forget his foolish time based withdrawal plans for Iraq. Only as conditions improve and the Iraqi's prove ready to handle the security situation, can the United States responsibly withdraw from the country. Obama claimed the surge strategy would fail and increase violence in Iraq. Obama could not have been more wrong, and Bush and McCain more right. If Obama is smart, he will essentially differ to Petraeus on both Iraq and Afghanistan if he happens to become President.

 

[purpleoscar]

Has either one of the canidates even mentioned balancing the budget? I know for sure McCain hasn't, you can't promise years in Iraq, tax cuts, and balanced budget; even with conservative fuzzy math, that doesn't work.

http://www.politico.com/static/PPM103_jobsforamericashshs.html

See page 4. I'm sure the bailout has pushed the goal into the second term because some tax cuts are happening and 700 billion - 1 trillion is being added on to the debt. So probably he will have to find 10 trillion over the years to reduce the deficit. Iraq will be reduced and Afghanistan will continue so the war won't be cut. It will have to be entitlement programs they have to find efficiencies. When the business cycle comes back there will be more government revenue collected. He will probably freeze spending. I hope that if they balance the budget they start paying (like in Canada) the debt down to reduce the interest payments. That will help with keeping tax cuts permanent.

 

[Strongbow]

I'd prefer the guy who says a lot and is occasionally wrong to the person who says nothing and still hasn't shown America she has any knowledge or viewpoints.

You mean you prefer a guy who is on another planet when it comes to substance. At least Sarah Palin understands that it would be foolish to prematurely withdraw US troops from Iraq and does not have some WILD plan to divide Iraq into 3 countries like Biden.

 

[BVS]

http://www.politico.com/static/PPM103_jobsforamericashshs.html

See page 4.

Yes, they both have "plans" on their websites but McCain has never mentioned it, it's not his priority for he's a moron when it comes to the economy.

When the business cycle comes back there will be more government revenue collected. He will probably freeze spending.

Freeze spending? What evidence do you have that conservatives now a days want this? There is none.

 

[Bluer White]

Oh an Keith is a lot funnier and doesn't take himself as serious. He knows he's there for entertainment and that's it.

Keith seems pretty serious to me, most of the time.

He is entertaining though.

 

[U2democrat]

I was supposed to see Biden tomorrow but he has cancelled all campaign events as his mother-in-law is gravely ill. Best wishes to the Biden family...seeing Beau shipped off to Iraq and now Jill Biden's mother is very sick.

 

[U2Fanatic4ever]

I was supposed to see Biden tomorrow but he has cancelled all campaign events as his mother-in-law is gravely ill. Best wishes to the Biden family...seeing Beau shipped off to Iraq and now Jill Biden's mother is very sick.

wow.. sorry to hear about this.. Prayers going his way from me too.

 

[maycocksean]

Anyone else not like being referred to as "Joe six pack" ??

interesting - Sarah Palin's Lies

Well, I don't drink so. . .I guess I can't be Joe Six Pack.

 

[maycocksean]

I would say it's tossed around towards people who are condescending like the only way someone might be conservative is if they're some uneducated hick. (which your comments about "rural values" does seem a bit condescending.) Being that this site is extremely liberal, I doubt many on here see how condescending they can be towards people in little town America. A recent example is all the sudden bashing of anything "folksy.
The "betcha" and that sort of thing is in the common language where I live. Are we all too uneducated to be elected to high office because of the way we talk?

Condescension cuts both ways. It's simply a way of saying "I'm better than you" and I've heard it from both liberals and conservatives on this forum. "Let he/she who is without sin cast the first stone" and all that. . .

I really don't have a problem with a spirited debate between liberal and conservative points of view. Unfortunately that doesn't happen very often on this forum and it's not solely the fault of the "liberal tone" of the forum. I have yet to see a conservative poster on this forum not resort to the kind "liberals hate America and love the terrorists" kind of nonsense in their arguments. When this is the kind of "argument" you're presenting can you really complain when you're condescended to? I mean is it really so hard to concluded that both liberals and conservatives love their country and want the best for it, they just disagree on the best way to get there.

So like I say, the denigration of the character and "values" of a particular point of view most definitely cuts both ways. Lot of straw men in this house. . .

 

[maycocksean]

Sting's observation of Biden's mistatement of facts is well taken.

I find it ludicrous though, his implication that only Democratic politicians engage in this kind of dishonesty. The Republicans always tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Is that it?