2008 U.S. Presidential Election: Vice-Presidential Debate - Page 25 - U2 Feedback

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Old 10-05-2008, 12:32 PM   #361
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Originally Posted by Bluer White View Post
Let's make them rurals count for 3/5's of a vote.


there's too much to respond to, and it feels like this thread has moved on, but with the language coming out of the McCain campaign, the continued defense of George W Bush and Sarah Palin as "one of us," i think you'll see that the snobbery is coming out of the mouths of the "rurals" and is sent to wither the "elites" with words like "new york times" and, gosh, even "east coast" meant to be terms of derision.

if there's anyone who's made the case that anyone should count less, it's the rurals towards the "elites."

(even though we still have no idea what an elite is).
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Old 10-05-2008, 12:37 PM   #362
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Irvine, I've read your posts for quite some time and I know that you are far left and you're not moving toward the center anytime soon, so I will waste little time trying to explain rural values to you. Basically, they have a lot to do with "guns, god, and religion." They have to do a lot with personal responsibility and not waiting around for the government to solve problems through social welfare programs. They have to do with, according to a lifetime democrat-voting colleague who will be voting for McCain/Palin this year--that there is an abortion litmus test in todays democratic party that turns many people away.
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(which your comments about "rural values" does seem a bit condescending.)

pot? kettle much?



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A recent example is all the sudden bashing of anything "folksy.
The "betcha" and that sort of thing is in the common language where I live. Are we all too uneducated to be elected to high office because of the way we talk?

no, what most of us are reacting to is that she's pretending and amping up her folksiness and that it's inauthentic and made to pander. like when Hillary tried to come off like Annie Oakley and bowl and do shots of whiskey or when she would suddenly get a much different cadence to her words when she'd speak in a black church.

what i'm reacting to is inauthenticity, and i'm wondering why the "rurals" continue to buy it, and the question still stands: why vote these "values" instead of voting on the "issues." there's really not much question that, 1) Democrats are better for poor people and better for the economy, and 2) abortion isn't going anywhere anytime soon, no matter what the Republicans tell you.

so why continue to vote Republican if you are poor?

and, btw, though i've moved, i spent the last 4 years living in a neighborhood with people who are far poorer and probably less educated than you and your neighbors. or do they not count because they're the urban poor?


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Simply put, people like Obama or Kerry are too far to the left for many in "rural america" to stomach.

why? because one is black and the other is smart? haven't we learned what happens when you put folksiness and "authenticity" (despite one having the bluest blood imaginable ... i suppose finding Jesus suddenly makes you authentic) ahead of basic competency -- you get the Bush presidency, two failed wars, economic collapse, and a major American city washes out to sea.
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Old 10-05-2008, 01:46 PM   #363
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haven't we learned what happens when you put folksiness and "authenticity" (despite one having the bluest blood imaginable ... i suppose finding Jesus suddenly makes you authentic) ahead of basic competency -- you get the Bush presidency, two failed wars, economic collapse, and a major American city washes out to sea.

OUCH!!!

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Old 10-05-2008, 02:09 PM   #364
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OUCH!!!



i didn't even touch the erosion of civil liberties or the total destruction of the Justice Department.
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Old 10-05-2008, 02:15 PM   #365
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you get the Bush presidency, two failed wars, economic collapse, and a major American city washes out to sea.
Well, lets compare the Bush Presidency to the Clinton Presidency on some key foreign policy and economic facts:


Clinton years: tried to go after Al Quada with some bombing efforts and police efforts, and did little damage to the network.

Bush years: invaded Afghanistan and successfully overthrew the Taliban government. Got Pakistan to reverse its support for the Taliban and capture hundreds of Al Quada members hiding in Pakistan. Captured and killed thousands of Al Quada members all over the world.


Clinton years: tried to enforce UN Security Council resolutions against Saddam's Iraq including heavily bombing the country. Efforts failed and UN inspectors were forced to leave and were not allowed back in. Efforts to enforce UN Security Council resolutions and completely disarm Saddam failed.

Bush years: Invaded Iraq and removed Saddam regime from power enforcing 17 UN Security Council resolutions against Iraq and insuring that Saddam's regime was disarmed.

Clinton years: left two hostile regimes in power in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Bush years: removed those regimes and replaced them with democratic governments.

Clinton years: Heavily cut defense spending to its lowest level as a percentage of GDP since 1939.

Bush years: increased defense spending, expanded the size of the military, and increased important research and development and procurement programs for modern weapon systems.


National Federal Debt as a percentage of GDP:

Clinton Years 64.5%

Bush Years 61.9%




Annual GDP growth rate:

Clinton Years 5.4%

Bush Years 4.8%




Annual Poverty Rate:

Clinton Years 13.3%

Bush Years 12.3%




Annual Inflation Rate:

Clinton Years 2.60%

Bush Years 2.69%




Annual Unemployment Rate:

Clinton Years 5.21%

Bush Years 5.20%






Two wars that have succeeded in removing grave threats to the United States and replaced threatening dictatorships with developing democracies. On economics, Bush years have roughly been the same as the Clinton years and better in some area's especially the poverty rate. No economic collapse at all based on the most important national macro-economic statistics. Instead, some of the best economic performance figures this country has ever seen rivaling the Clinton years.


But the greatest work of fiction above by Irvine is that a major American city has washed out to sea, and the Bush administration is at fault for it.
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Old 10-05-2008, 02:21 PM   #366
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Serenity now.
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Old 10-05-2008, 02:55 PM   #367
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I love the irony of people like Strongbow's posts.

On a U2 forum.

It's the same with Springsteen republicans. It's gotta just eat away at them knowing the artists they must enjoy so much share the opposite political views.

Same with the Pearl Jam frat boy republican fans.

Oh, it's so fantastic.


Strongbow: pump your fists in the air at your next u2 concert when they play "Pride" and remember that McCain voted against making his Bday a national holiday.

Enjoy.
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Old 10-05-2008, 03:03 PM   #368
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I love the irony of people like Strongbow's posts.

On a U2 forum.

It's the same with Springsteen republicans. It's gotta just eat away at them knowing the artists they must enjoy so much share the opposite political views.

Same with the Pearl Jam frat boy republican fans.

Oh, it's so fantastic.


Strongbow: pump your fists in the air at your next u2 concert when they play "Pride" and remember that McCain voted against making his Bday a national holiday.

Enjoy.
One of the things I love about Bono is he understands that it takes all kinds to accomplish what needs to be done.

As for McCain - he has made statements about that vote - and I believe he is sincere when he says it was a mistake.
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Old 10-05-2008, 03:06 PM   #369
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Yes, he's very sincere. Did you know he was a war hero?

BTW, it seems as though he's sent his pit bull from Alaska to stoke the racial fires:

Analysis: Palin's words may backfire on McCain - Yahoo! News
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Old 10-05-2008, 03:06 PM   #370
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Sting's observation of Biden's mistatement of facts is well taken.

I find it ludicrous though, his implication that only Democratic politicians engage in this kind of dishonesty. The Republicans always tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Is that it?
Fact is, they all distort and play with the facts. This argument that my guy doesn't lie or tells less fibs ect....is such BS. And it happens on both sides, but we look at our guy through a filtration system based on bias.
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Old 10-05-2008, 03:07 PM   #371
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JOFO View Post
I love the irony of people like Strongbow's posts.

On a U2 forum.

It's the same with Springsteen republicans. It's gotta just eat away at them knowing the artists they must enjoy so much share the opposite political views.

Same with the Pearl Jam frat boy republican fans.

Oh, it's so fantastic.


Strongbow: pump your fists in the air at your next u2 concert when they play "Pride" and remember that McCain voted against making his Bday a national holiday.

Enjoy.
I don't really think one's political views has an impact on whether or not one can be a fan of the band. I'm agnostic, and I'm a huge fan. I don't roll my eyes when Bono talks about faith or God. To be a fan, you don't have to adopt every belief of a band or performer you admire.
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Old 10-05-2008, 03:16 PM   #372
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Originally Posted by JOFO View Post
I love the irony of people like Strongbow's posts.

On a U2 forum.

It's the same with Springsteen republicans. It's gotta just eat away at them knowing the artists they must enjoy so much share the opposite political views.

Same with the Pearl Jam frat boy republican fans.

Oh, it's so fantastic.


Strongbow: pump your fists in the air at your next u2 concert when they play "Pride" and remember that McCain voted against making his Bday a national holiday.

Enjoy.
Many of U2's spiritual and religious writing has much more in common with those that are Republicans rather than many of the louder voices in the Democratic party who tend to dismiss, question or avoid religion. Being a multi-national corporation themselves, they are certainly more supportive of free trade than many in the Democratic party have been. They are not in favor of high taxes on the rich as seen by the move of many of their assets to the Netherlands to avoid increased taxes. While I'm sure they are in favor of alternative energy, I'm sure they would not support many of the more extreme energy proposals that would increase fuel cost or prevent them from touring in the manner they have toured over the past few decades. Unlike many Democrats, they are not pacifist, and supported wars in Bosnia, Kosovo, and Afghanistan. They also honor and respect the US military unlike many of the more extreme elements of the Democratic party.
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Old 10-05-2008, 03:23 PM   #373
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First of all, who cares what U2 thinks.

Second, what is this "they" - I'm sorry but if you can elucidate Larry's views on these matters, I'd love to hear them. Or Adam's.
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Old 10-05-2008, 03:32 PM   #374
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Many of U2's spiritual and religious writing has much more in common with those that are Republicans rather than many of the louder voices in the Democratic party who tend to dismiss, question or avoid religion. Being a multi-national corporation themselves, they are certainly more supportive of free trade than many in the Democratic party have been. They are not in favor of high taxes on the rich as seen by the move of many of their assets to the Netherlands to avoid increased taxes. While I'm sure they are in favor of alternative energy, I'm sure they would not support many of the more extreme energy proposals that would increase fuel cost or prevent them from touring in the manner they have toured over the past few decades. Unlike many Democrats, they are not pacifist, and supported wars in Bosnia, Kosovo, and Afghanistan. They also honor and respect the US military unlike many of the more extreme elements of the Democratic party.

Oh I get it; you're insane.
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Old 10-05-2008, 04:34 PM   #375
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Yes, he's very sincere. Did you know he was a war hero?

BTW, it seems as though he's sent his pit bull from Alaska to stoke the racial fires:

Analysis: Palin's words may backfire on McCain - Yahoo! News
Maybe they will.

Its one of the thins I do not like about Obama. I think some of his associations are questionable. If you believe that questioning the associations with people that most mainstream Americans would consider quite radical is a racial thing, I think you are wrong.

Do you have proof that somehow McCain did not mean what he said?

Are republicans not allowed to be U2 fans in your book?
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