2008 U.S. Presidential Election: Second Debate

[anitram]

These debates are an absolutely awful waste of time. I thought the format sucked and frankly most of the questions were asinine. Is healthcare a privilege or a responsibility? Give me a break - honestly that's a question so uninspired and stupid that I can't blame either candidate for their answer. You want to write a philosophical paper about it, go ahead, but it is a terrible debate question.

That said, I read a quote the other day by Peggy Noonan, who is a loud, proud self-proclaimed Republican and she said that McCain and Palin are not big enough for this moment. I think that is exactly right and it's what happened to Hillary. They are running against a man while the people are voting for a movement. It is pretty clear bifurcation that has completely flown over McCain's head.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

It was terrible, I shut it off. I knew it was over when Tom Brokaw started to get on my last nerve. Neither one would even say flat out if they think health care should be a commodity. Why, are they afraid of offending the health care companies that they take money from? Gross.

Very rude

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ed-k1xOCsMs

 

[Utoo]

It was terrible, I shut it off. I knew it was over when Tom Brokaw started to get on my last nerve. Neither one would even say flat out if they think health care should be a commodity. Why, are they afraid of offending the health care companies that they take money from? Gross.

I don't know--I think that commodity question was just an example of poorly created questions. It seemed like the audience were trying to make their questions sound smart, and instead a few of them came up with bungled questions that didn't really make much sense.

"Is healthcare a commodity?" What on earth does that mean? There are probably a dozen different ways of looking at the question, and the lady who asked gave no indication of what she was really asking about. Are you asking whether it is a good that can be purchased vs. a right---thus the same as Brokaw's question? Are you asking whether one should be allowed to shop around, to barter for better prices? Are you asking if government or firms will be able to buy and sell people's healthcare packages the same way banks bought and sold packages of mortgages? What are you asking???

Not all of the audience questions were bad. There were a few, however, that were good questions but that the questioner really can't have expected a variety of answers. The one about "Will the $700B bailout/economic troubles affect our role as world peacekeepers?" comes to mind. Sure, an honest answer would be that we may not have the funds or desire to go to all corners of the world to protect other people on our dime. Or, that we probably have no interest in relieving Africa's debt & ONE Campaign-type stuff. But can you really expect the candidates to say anything other than "we are the world's most important peacekeepers," "we'll do what we believe is morally right," etc.?

 

[U2isthebest]

It all comes down to the fact that you can't turn a town hall meeting into a debate. It's like trying to put a square peg in a round hole. That format simply doesn't add up to the strict debate formula of question, answer, answer, rebuttal, rebuttal, that characterize real debates. It's too disorganized.

 

[U2isthebest]

Here's an interesting article I just found on HuffPo about how McCain's infamous "My friends" and other phrases are turning off the American public. It sounds easy to dismiss, but it's things like this that are part of voters' decision-making.

Jeffrey Feldman: The McCain-isms that Lost the Debate, If Not the Election

 

[Vincent Vega]

McCain-ism #3: "I Know How To" - The Know-It-All

My friend now calls McCain God since he knows everything.

When he spoke about oil drilling and "fundamental economics" I had to cringe. His "my hero" phrase was especially so bad because they followed each other quite closely. In just a couple of minutes he said "Reagan, my hero" and "My hero is a guy named Teddy Roosevelt".
And "my friends" might work at a town hall meetings since about 95% of the attendees are already in favor of him and probably don't mind. At a debate speaking to at least as many undecideds and Obama supporters it comes over pretty bad to call them friends.

 

[U2isthebest]

My friend now calls McCain God since he knows everything.

When he spoke about oil drilling and "fundamental economics" I had to cringe. His "my hero" phrase was especially so bad because they followed each other quite closely. In just a couple of minutes he said "Reagan, my hero" and "My hero is a guy named Teddy Roosevelt".
And "my friends" might work at a town hall meetings since about 95% of the attendees are already in favor of him and probably don't mind. At a debate speaking to at least as many undecideds and Obama supporters it comes over pretty bad to call them friends.

I'm still waiting for McCain to explain how he knows how to fix the economy since just a few months ago he said, "I'll admit, the economy isn't something I've understood as well as I should."

 

[VintagePunk]

The repetition makes him seem old and doddering and phony. I think it must have turned a lot of people off, even subconsciously, because as far as content went in the debate, I would have scored it closer than many of the polls seemed to indicate.

 

[BVS]

I haven't heard this mentioned yet, but didn't McCain say something about reforming Social Security is easy? Then why hasn't he done it? Not enough time?

 

[U2isthebest]

I haven't heard this mentioned yet, but didn't McCain say something about reforming Social Security is easy? Then why hasn't he done it? Not enough time?

I think I mentioned something about it in the debate thread last night, but I don't remember. Since McCain wants to privatize Social Security, I'm wondering how he'll weasel his way out of that. Had the Bush privatization plan, which McCain supported, actually have happened, we would have lost millions upon millions of dollars invested as Social Security during the collapse of the financial institutions. What might being so gung ho just a few months ago for privatization be called John? Is it...poor judgment?

 

[dazzledbylight]

Prediction: McCain will accidently call Obama a cunt. No-one says a word. The audience, moderator and Obama just quietly file out knowing there is no point now. McCain is left standing there behind the podium in a completely empty auditorium. The networks cut to sitcom re-runs. Fox try valiantly for about half an hour to blame the far left hate America crowd for inventing the word and making it popular, then shift to vocal breakdowns in an attempt to claim he said ‘current’. One by one staff, production crew and hosts leave the studios quietly, knowing there is no point now. Sean Hannity is left sitting there behind his desk in a completely empty studio.

OMGawd!!!!


I WISH!!!

 

[Vincent Vega]

"My friend" is the one thing you hear everyone talking about, and no one was positive about it so far.

I'm also curious, since no expert I've read so far claimed to know how to solve this crisis, how McCain suddenly happens to more than any person that makes a living by studying such crises.

 

[Diemen]

I thought that McCain sounded even emptier in a few of his responses than Palin typically does. Especially when he went into Social Security and finding Bin Laden. If these things are so easy and you know what to do and how to do it, then, um.... why the hell haven't you done it or shared how to do it with the rest of us yet? Or better yet, how about explaining just how to do it, since you already know and all. Plus, as you said, it's easy, so it must be easy to explain, right?

It's as if he thinks that simply saying that is all the proof people need.

 

[dazzledbylight]

If he calls me his fucking friend one more time, I'm throwing a heavy object at my TV.

U2dem














I was soooo wanting to do THAT at one point (same reason) !!

 

[dazzledbylight]

No, Mac was trying to do paint O as a youngster..by "that one".

Like a fatherly figure referring to a youngster.

Nothing more, nothing less.

<>

oh, pleaseeeeee.....

.then why did he drop his voice lower almost like a whisper.......


nah, that was direspect, dude!

 

[dazzledbylight]

Brck Obm won the debte.
There.

 

[dazzledbylight]

These debates are an absolutely awful waste of time. I thought the format sucked and frankly most of the questions were asinine. Is healthcare a privilege or a responsibility? Give me a break - honestly that's a question so uninspired and stupid that I can't blame either candidate for their answer. You want to write a philosophical paper about it, go ahead, but it is a terrible debate question.

i don't know about that anitram..........

some thots ............
Among the Calvinists (and at least one other Protestant Denomination and neo con views.........IF you are wealthy then you are a worthy person.

Poverty = unworthiness

Thus health care is more of a Privilege of those who are Worthy.......
....and therefore....

.... there is no obligation = responsibility to try to give Health CAre to those who don't have [the Unworthy] it because various reasons.....poverty, loss of job and maybe no able to use the COBRA (system) /or a pre-existing condition keeping a person from getting insurance.


Where in society that supported individualism, AND a Community POV it would be considered a responsibilty to have people covered.

And in the long run......that coverage drawing from a big pool of people who bring costs down ie like peole getting more preventitive care in the first place, people using the ER less as their "Primary Care" facility...etc

 

[corianderstem]

Dazzledbylight, do you know how to use the new multi-quote feature? It allows you to quote multiple people in one post, rather than making a new post for each comment.

 

[dazzledbylight]

and the idea I believe behind helping to shore up the housing mortgage situation is b/c people WITH houses are more able to stay at their jobs = money = more buying power, and more cash (for now) to circumvent the credit Freeze that IS affecting people more & more.

 

[dazzledbylight]

Dazzledbylight, do you know how to use the new multi-quote feature? It allows you to quote multiple people in one post, rather than making a new post for each comment.

THANKS cori,

I DO know how ( and love the feature), but I'm rushing before i have to leave here...so I reverted back to the long time Habit of single posts!

 

[kellyahern]

If you were betting on how many times McCain said "my friends" last night . . . well if you picked 22, you won the pool, according to Hardball with Chris Matthews.

Oh, and there's a new t-shirt.

 

[dazzledbylight]

II heard about that! thanks for the pic!