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Old 09-27-2008, 08:09 AM   #151
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Despite what I thought was pretty much a draw last night, no big mistakes from either of them, but no crushing blows either, it seems that many pundits gave a slight edge to McCain, while initial polls done by media companies gave a fairly decent lead to Obama, most notably, among undecideds.

One thing I do expect is that Obama will come out stronger in the next one. I think that he has the ability to adapt a little better than McCain, whereas McCain is stuck in that more rigid 'stay the course' style. He can pull out big surprises from his political bag of tricks as shown by his selection of Palin, and the "suspension" of his campaign, but I'm not convinced he's capable of this on a more subtle level, one that would enable his clear win of a debate.
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Old 09-27-2008, 08:31 AM   #152
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Wow! What a cheap shot! It's called showing some respect to the other candidate. Do you repiglican fools even know what that is??? you rude and condescending fucks! Just because somebody agrees with you on certain things doesn't mean they are not ready to lead!
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Old 09-27-2008, 08:48 AM   #153
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That was rational
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Old 09-27-2008, 09:07 AM   #154
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What I found from the debate is the total different way mccain and obama speak. Obama always seems calm and fresh, not like he is trotting out the messages, i like his little stammering he sometimes has.

Mccain comes across as the drunk uncle that heehaws his way through christmas pulling coins out of your ear and wanting to give you pony rides on his lap. He is smarmy, condescending, does the who 'huuuh huuuh' beavis thing whenever obama says something he disagrees with. He is like one of the old boys that would get down and dirty and Obama just seems to be miles above him in decorum.

lovely Obama such a polite, articulate, intelligent man. We need one of those after suffering with a dimwit for so long.
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Old 09-27-2008, 09:41 AM   #155
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That was rational
I'm sorry but selective editing like that does not prove anything! Every time Obama agreed with McCain, he went "You're absolutely right but...". Everything after the but has been conveniently cut out. How cheap! The McCain campaign sure seems to spend a lot of energy and money in making ads to bash Obama but I don't see the same childish attacks from the other side. The American people better wake up and recognize who is the more mature, calm and level headed candidate here.
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Old 09-27-2008, 09:48 AM   #156
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I'm sorry but selective editing like that does not prove anything! Every time Obama agreed with McCain, he went "You're absolutely right but...". Everything after the but has been conveniently cut out. How cheap! The McCain campaign sure seems to spend a lot of energy and money in making ads to bash Obama but I don't see the same childish attacks from the other side. The American people better wake up and recognize who is the more mature, calm and level headed candidate here.
If that's the best he's got, there's not much to worry about. Polls are showing strongly that voters are heavily turned off by going negative this campaign, unlike other campaigns where it did work, unfortunately. That ad may speak to the base, but it's a mistake to run it if he's looking to sway undecideds. If his campaign insiders were smart, they'd take note and lay off. So far, they seem to be lacking in the smarts.
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Old 09-27-2008, 10:42 AM   #157
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Originally Posted by dazzlingamy View Post
What I found from the debate is the total different way mccain and obama speak. Obama always seems calm and fresh, not like he is trotting out the messages, i like his little stammering he sometimes has.

Mccain comes across as the drunk uncle that heehaws his way through christmas pulling coins out of your ear and wanting to give you pony rides on his lap. He is smarmy, condescending, does the who 'huuuh huuuh' beavis thing whenever obama says something he disagrees with. He is like one of the old boys that would get down and dirty and Obama just seems to be miles above him in decorum.

lovely Obama such a polite, articulate, intelligent man. We need one of those after suffering with a dimwit for so long.

+1,000,000


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Old 09-27-2008, 10:59 AM   #158
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the CNN Poll:


Quote:
Regardless of which candidate you happen to support, who do you think did the best job in the debate -- Barack Obama or John McCain?
Obama 51%
McCain 38%
Did _______ do a better or worse job than you expected?
Obama: Better 57%, Worse 20%, Same 23%
McCain: Better 60%, Worse 20%, Same 18%

Next, regardless of which presidential candidate you support, please tell me if you think Barack Obama or John McCain would better handle each of the following issues:

• The war in Iraq: Obama 52%, McCain 47%

• Terrorism: McCain 49%, Obama 45%

• The economy: Obama 58%, McCain 37%

• The current financial crisis: Obama 54%, McCain 36%

Thinking about the following characteristics and qualities, please say whether you think each one better described Barack Obama or John McCain during tonight's debate:

• Was more intelligent: Obama 55%, McCain 30%

• Expressed his views more clearly: Obama 53%, McCain 36%

• Spent more time attacking his opponent: McCain 60%, Obama 23%

• Was more sincere and authentic: Obama 46%, McCain 38%

• Seemed to be the stronger leader: Obama 49%, McCain 43%

• Was more likeable: Obama 61%, McCain 26%

• Was more in touch with the needs and problems of people like you: Obama 62%, McCain 32%

Based on what _______ said and did in tonight's debate, do you think he would be able to handle the job of president if he is elected?
Obama 69%-29%
McCain 68%-30%
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Old 09-27-2008, 11:06 AM   #159
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1- I'm not sure why everyone is so quick to say that McCain was condescending or rude but make no mention of Obama also interrupting several times or constantly addressing him as "John" the entire debate. I didn't find that very respectful, but I'm sure someone will defend it as perfectly fine.
He has a right to interrupt when McCain is telling a lie about his position. And coworkers and colleagues frequently address each other by first name.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VintagePunk View Post
One thing I do expect is that Obama will come out stronger in the next one.
Definitely - Obama blows away McCain on domestic issues, which the future debates will focus more heavily on. It's going to be an uphill battle for McCain in the other debates.

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Originally Posted by Strongbow View Post

Obama/Biden 301 McCain/Palin 237

In other words, a landslide win for Obama .
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Old 09-27-2008, 11:09 AM   #160
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after a while of watching, i got kind of bored -- it seemed they were just restating their differences, and i already know what those are. no one was awful, no one was great.

McCain needed something big to happen here to get back into this race, and i don't think that happened, although he didn't take himself completely out by falling on his sword or anything.

the real fun will be next week.
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Old 09-27-2008, 11:14 AM   #161
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And coworkers and colleagues frequently address each other by first name.
Exactly! I really don't understand the big deal here. Since when did calling someone by their first name indicate disrespect?

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Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
the real fun will be next week.
I will miss all those debates. I have to work evening shifts for a month!
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Old 09-27-2008, 11:15 AM   #162
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Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
i still want to know why a woman gets on an 8 hour flight after her water broke.

or are we not allowed to ask non-deferential questions because, please, it's sexist.
Because her doctor gave her permission -- because this was her fifth pregnancy so she knew the difference between minor contractions and signs of active labor.

But your newfound concern for the unborn is most welcome.
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Old 09-27-2008, 11:24 AM   #163
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Because her doctor gave her permission -- because this was her fifth pregnancy so she knew the difference between minor contractions and signs of active labor.

seems irresponsible of the doctor.


Quote:
But your newfound concern for the unborn is most welcome.

i am very glad that Trigg was born to a family that wanted to love and care for him.
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Old 09-27-2008, 11:30 AM   #164
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Because her doctor gave her permission -- because this was her fifth pregnancy so she knew the difference between minor contractions and signs of active labor.
False. the doctor was quoted in Anchorage Daily News as saying she wasn't asked for permission to travel:

http://www.adn.com/626/story/382864.html

Quote:
Early Thursday -- she thinks it was around 4 a.m. Texas time -- she consulted with her doctor, family physician Cathy Baldwin-Johnson, who is based in the Valley and has delivered lots of babies, including Piper, Palin's 7-year-old.

Palin said she felt fine but had leaked amniotic fluid and also felt some contractions that seemed different from the false labor she had been having for months.

"I said I am going to stay for the day. I have a speech I was determined to give," Palin said. She gave the luncheon keynote address for the energy conference.

Palin kept in close contact with Baldwin-Johnson. The contractions slowed to one or two an hour, "which is not active labor," the doctor said.

"Things were already settling down when she talked to me," Baldwin-Johnson said. Palin did not ask for a medical OK to fly, the doctor said.

"I don't think it was unreasonable for her to continue to travel back," Baldwin-Johnson said.
She did say it wasn't unreasonable to travel, but what was she going to say? That it was highly irresponsible? Come on. What she did say is not phrased in a way that implies resounding support.


In addition, every labour is different, so it doesn't matter how many children she had in the past - 5 or 55. The fact is, she was about to give birth to a premature infant with special needs. She was highly stupid and irresponsible to take such risks.
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Old 09-27-2008, 11:46 AM   #165
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a post-debate CBS poll. it's a PDF, which i don't know how to source.


Quote:
UNCOMMITTED VOTERS AND THE DEBATE: OBAMA WINS ON ECONOMY,
MCCAIN WINS ON IRAQ
September 26, 2008

The first presidential debate helped uncommitted voters learn about
the candidates – and it appears that Democrat Barack Obama benefited
the most. Uncommitted voters said Obama won the debate against
McCain, and more of those voters improved their opinion of the
Democrat. But while 66% think Obama would make the right decisions
about the economy, 56% think John McCain would do so about Iraq.

Immediately after the debate, CBS News interviewed a nationally
representative sample of nearly 500 debate watchers assembled by
Knowledge Networks who were “uncommitted voters” – voters who are
either undecided about who to vote for or who say they could still
change their minds. 39% of these uncommitted debate watchers said
Obama won the debate. 24% said McCain won, and another 37% thought it
was a tie.

WHO WON THE DEBATE?
(Among uncommitted voters who watched debate)
Obama 39%
McCain 24
Tie 37

Nearly half of those uncommitted voters who watched the debate said
that their image of Obama changed for the better as a result. Just 8%
say their opinion of Obama got worse, and 46% reported no change in
their opinions.

THE DEBATE’S EFFECT ON OPINIONS OF THE CANDIDATES
(Among uncommitted voters who watched debate)
Obama McCain
Better 46% 32%
Worse 8 21
No change 46 47

McCain saw less improvement in his image. 32% have improved their
image of McCain as a result of the debate, but 21% said their views of
him are now worse than before.

Why did voters’ image of Obama improve? Many volunteered that they
were impressed by his poise and knowledge about the issues, that he
was more knowledgeable about the issues than they thought previously.
When it came to John McCain, those same voters said he “didn’t control himself well under pressure”, that he was “angry and bad-tempered”,
and that he “talked too much about the past”.

On the other hand, voters who thought McCain won the debate felt he
showed more experience and understanding of the issues – particularly
foreign policy. Many felt he exceeded their expectations in how he
presented himself tonight, saying he was a “better debater” and a
“skilled speaker.”

Although much of this debate addressed foreign policy issues, the
candidates talked about the economy for about 30 minutes – which is
after all what voters say is their most important concern.
Uncommitted debate watchers saw Barack Obama as the clear winner on
handling the economy; 66% felt he would make the right decisions about
the economy, while 42% felt McCain would do so.

WOULD MAKE THE RIGHT DECISIONS ABOUT THE ECONOMY
(Among uncommitted voters who watched debate)
Obama McCain
Yes 66% 42%
No 33 57

But when it came to the war in Iraq, McCain was the stronger
candidate. Before the debate, 44% said that McCain would make the
right decisions about the war; that rose to 56% after the debate.
Fewer thought Obama would make the right decisions on Iraq.

WOULD MAKE THE RIGHT DECISIONS ABOUT THE WAR IN IRAQ
(Among uncommitted voters who watched debate)
Obama McCain
Pre-debate Post-debate Pre-debate Post-debate
Yes 44% 48% 44% 56%
No 53 51 53 43

Both candidates made some gains in presenting their respective visions
for the country. 65% said that Obama made it clear what he would do
as president; 64% said that of his rival, McCain.

MADE IT CLEAR WHAT HE WOULD DO AS PRESIDENT
(Among uncommitted voters who watched debate)
Obama McCain
Pre-debate Post-debate Pre-debate Post-debate
Yes 37% 65% 36% 64%
No 61 35 62 35

In national polls of registered voters overall, one of McCain’s
strengths has been the perception that he is ready for the presidency,
while Obama’s has been the perception that he is empathetic to voters’
needs. Uncommitted voters who watched the debate share those
perceptions.

OBAMA AND MCCAIN QUALITIES
(Among uncommitted voters who watched debate)
Obama McCain
Pre- Post Pre Post-
Debate debate debate debate
Is prepared to be president
Yes 44% 60% 79% 78%
No 53 39 20 21

Understands your needs
and problems
Yes 58% 79% 36% 41%
No 40 21 64 58

But while eight in 10 uncommitted voters who watched the debate think
McCain is prepared to be president, six in 10 now think Obama is
prepared as well – a significant improvement from his standing among
these same voters before the debate. The percentage of watchers who
think Obama understands their needs and problems has also increased by
21 points, while a majority still say McCain does not.

Uncommitted voters include those who say they have a preference, but
also say they could still change their minds. Before the debate, 36%
favored Obama and 34% favored McCain. Obama now leads by 12 points
among uncommitted debate watchers -- 41% to 29% -- in their choice for
president in November. But nearly three in 10 remain undecided, and
most of those with a choice now say their minds could still change.

PRESIDENTIAL PREFERENCE AMONG DEBATE WATCHERS
(Among uncommitted voters who watched debate)
Pre-debate Post-debate
Obama 36% 41%
McCain 34 29
Someone else 1 1
Depends 29 29
__________________________________________________________________

This CBS News poll was conducted online by Knowledge Networks among a
nationwide random sample of 483 uncommitted voters – voters who don’t yet
know who they will vote for, or who have chosen a candidate but may still
change their minds – who have agreed to watch the debate. Knowledge
Networks, a Silicon Valley company, conducted the poll among a sample of
adult members of its household panel, a nationally representative sample
given access to the Internet via Web TV. The questions were administered
using the Internet.

This is a scientifically representative poll of undecided voters’ reaction to
the presidential debate. The margin of sampling error could be plus or minus
4 percentage points for results based on the entire sample.
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