2008 U.S. Presidential Election: First Debate - Page 10 - U2 Feedback

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Old 09-26-2008, 11:34 PM   #136
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Kissinger should be strung from a lamp post.
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Old 09-27-2008, 12:00 AM   #137
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I knew about Bob Dole's arm and the pen-holding, but not about this.
I knew about Bob Dole's E.D. and the Viagra-taking, but not about this.

I fell asleep half way through. Did I miss anything? Didn't think so.
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Old 09-27-2008, 12:28 AM   #138
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Do you guys think this will be re-aired anytime soon? I forgot to DVR it tonight while I was out.
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Old 09-27-2008, 01:31 AM   #139
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During the debate, Obama pointed to Kissinger to defend his position because the former secretary of state supports direct talks with high-level Iranians without preconditions. Kissinger does not, however, support the U.S. president personally engaging in those talks, a point which McCain sought to drive home during the debate.

"Senator McCain is right. I would not recommend the next President of the United States engage in talks with Iran at the Presidential level. My views on this issue are entirely compatible with the views of my friend Senator John McCain. We do not agree on everything, but we do agree that any negotiations with Iran must be geared to reality," Kissinger said in statement issued by the McCain campaign.
Political Radar: Fact Check: Kissinger Defends McCain's Iran Stance


McCain won this 67 % - 31 %

I saw it on Drudge - so I know it's true.
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Old 09-27-2008, 01:54 AM   #140
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ABC and CBS both reported after the debate that Kissinger, in different interviews, had advocated speaking directly with Iran, just not at the Presidential level.

When McCain made this particular accusation, Obama was trying to say he didn't necessarily mean it was the President who should engage in talks with Iran or other rogue nations but he didn't get a chance to elaborate.
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Old 09-27-2008, 01:57 AM   #141
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I stll think they were both pretty sharp, I like Obama's confidence, and wit but i'm still leaning for McCain even though i don't agree with everything he mentioned tonight..
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Old 09-27-2008, 02:02 AM   #142
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YouTube - McCain Is Right.
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Old 09-27-2008, 02:09 AM   #143
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ABC and CBS both reported after the debate that Kissinger, in different interviews, had advocated speaking directly with Iran, just not at the Presidential level.

When McCain made this particular accusation, Obama was trying to say he didn't necessarily mean it was the President who should engage in talks with Iran or other rogue nations but he didn't get a chance to elaborate.
We already have low level and back channel lines of communication.


Obama used this to hoodwink young voters in the primaries into thinking that he was suggesting something new, outside of the box.



Again here is what he said tonight

Quote:
“I reserve the right as president of the United States to meet with anyone of my choosing if I feel it would protect the United States,” Obama said
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Old 09-27-2008, 03:28 AM   #144
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I tell ya man, if you didn't think they were both good... you're sucking on the kool aid.

McCain was much much better than to be expected.

And Obama was tougher than expected.

Call it a draw right now. In a few days the media eventually will.
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Old 09-27-2008, 03:37 AM   #145
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I don't think McCain's doing that badly, and I'm his idealogical polar opposite. I don't know that he's gained any independents, but I don't think he's lost any, either.
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I tell ya man, if you didn't think they were both good... you're sucking on the kool aid.

McCain was much much better than to be expected.

And Obama was tougher than expected.

Call it a draw right now. In a few days the media eventually will.
I'm inclined to agree. For days I've been hearing that speeches are Obama's strong suit while debating is not, and vice versa for McCain, and I thought this to be true, at least tonight.

While McCain did come off as condescending at times and Obama civil and respectful, unfortunately in my opinion, it's the former that wins elections. Obama needs to come out swinging next time and go for the jugular. I didn't think either had a "knock-out punch" tonight.

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John McCain: "The average South Korean is 3 inches taller than the average North Korean." Um, what?
I know what he was trying to say here, although he didn't articulate it very well. He was obviously refering to the disparity between the Koreas and how millions of North Koreans suffer from hunger and malnutrution thanks to Kim Jong Il's regime.
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Old 09-27-2008, 03:40 AM   #146
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I was fairly underwhelmed by tonight's debate. To me, it looked more like a live action version of the attack adds we have been seeing by both candidates over the past month. I don't feel either had a commanding "win" though McCain did start to pick up steam when foreign policy came into play. I give the slight edge to him overall just barely, because he seemed to do well at laying out some of the mistakes (in his mind) Obama has made, leaving the Senator to defend himself more than he probably would have liked.

Just 2 little side thoughts;
1- I'm not sure why everyone is so quick to say that McCain was condescending or rude but make no mention of Obama also interrupting several times or constantly addressing him as "John" the entire debate. I didn't find that very respectful, but I'm sure someone will defend it as perfectly fine.
2- Quote of the night "I've got a bracelet, too."
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Old 09-27-2008, 04:17 AM   #147
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While McCain did come off as condescending at times and Obama civil and respectful, unfortunately in my opinion, it's the former that wins elections. Obama needs to come out swinging next time and go for the jugular. I didn't think either had a "knock-out punch" tonight.
.
I'm sorry if this sounds condescending to some viewers, but it sounds like you, BoMac, 'get it'

He's gotta be seen as tough as shit.

And he's trying, give him credit for that.

His biggest obstacle left is communication.

He's gotta get thru to voters who see him as perceiving himself as better than them.

That means he's gotta talk about being poor and talk about being both half black and half white. I think he's going to have a trump card and if he plays it, he will sail to the Presidency, And if he chooses to 'not dignify' the distinction, he may very well lose.

He's lived his life not dignifying it, because that's what our society asks him to. Yet to be be President, I think we (collective voters) want him to own up to it.

Come out and say "My daddy was black and he abandoned me, look what I've become" ...."my momma was white and told me to never forget who I was"

"I am all of you, I am not better or worse, I am the same. I represent all of you"

He's got to make a plea at the heart. He could win it in other ways, yes, the typical ways. If he sells himself as really genuine across demographics. It is over.

He doesn't have to parade himself as a leftist anymore. Common man.
I was never so proud to call myself an American as tonight.
For many reasons, I'd like to talk about in a different thread, in the future.
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Old 09-27-2008, 04:30 AM   #148
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It will take about 3 days before we know fully how this debate will impact the national polls, nearly a week or more for the state polls.

Just before the debate, Obama was ahead of McCain by 3 points in the Gallup national poll.

In the battleground states, the latest polls show the following just before the debate:

Virginia: Rasmussen Obama 50% McCain 45%

This new 5 point lead by Obama is unusual since McCain has generally had a very marginal lead on average in Virginia.

North Carolina: Rasmussen Obama 49% McCain 47%

Even more surprising than Virginia, a new Obama lead of 2 points in North Carolina. North Carolina is NOT supposed to be a battleground state, and McCain was ahead of Obama by 20 points two weeks ago. The bumps in Virginia and North Carolina for Obama seem to be related to the financial crises that started September 19.

Florida: Rasmussen McCain 48% Obama 47%

In a tough week for McCain do to the financial crises, McCain still keeps a tiny lead in Florida.


Indiana: Rasmussen McCain 49% Obama 47%

Another state that is not supposed to be a battleground state but has essentially become one probably because its next door to Obama's home state of Illinois. McCain holds a slight lead here, although this poll was taken just before the September 19 financial crises.

Ohio: Rasmussen McCain 47% Obama 46%

In a tough week for McCain do to the financial crises, McCain still keeps a tiny lead in Ohio.

Missouri: SurveyUSA McCain 48% Obama 46%

In a tough week for McCain do to the financial crises, McCain still keeps a tiny lead in Missouri. Missouri had been looking definitely in McCain's column for weeks, with an average lead for McCain well above 5 points, but since September 19 things have tightened up.

Nevada: Suffolk University McCain 46% Obama 45%

Another tiny lead for McCain in a battleground state. Poll taken from September 17 to September 21.


New Mexico: PPP (D) Obama 53% McCain 42%

In what used to be a battleground state, Obama now has an 11 point lead. Bush only won New Mexico by a few thousand votes in 2004. Gore won it in 2000. Looks like its definitely going Blue in 2008.

Colorado: CNN/TIME Obama 51% McCain 47%

A key battleground state that may end up deciding who wins the election in 2008. Obama has had a lead all year here, but he lost in August. Over the past two weeks though, he has regained that lead and in the latest poll leads by 4 points. It was a good move for the Democrats to have their convention here.

Iowa: Marist Obama 51% McCain 41%

A battleground state in the last two elections with the democrats taking it in 2000, but the Republicans taking it in 2004. Obama has beaten McCain in every poll here this year, except two that were ties. Up by 10 points now, this is probably another state like New Mexico that is definitely going blue in 2008.




New Hampshire: Research 2000 Obama 48% McCain 44%

A battleground state that went red in 2000, but blue in 2004. Its been close all year and McCain does have strong support in the state. But the latest poll has Obama up by 4 points.

Pennsylvania: Morning Call Obama 47% McCain 43%

Another battleground state where Obama struggled in the Primaries. McCain has posted leads here over the past few months, but Obama this week is out in front by 4 points. This state is a must win for Obama. If Obama does not win Pennsylvania, he cannot win the election.

Michigan: Detroit Free Press Obama 51% McCain 38%

Despite being a battleground state that leans blue and has gone blue the past two elections, McCain had been polling well here until the past couple of weeks. For Obama to be out 13 points in front of McCain is a big surprise. Michigan has the worst economy in the country, and the financial crises since September 19 has obviously had a big impact here.

Wisconsin: Research 2000 Obama 49% McCain 43%

This is a state the Kerry barely won in 2000. McCain had started to poll well here after the convention, but Obama now has his significant lead back.

Minnesota: Quinnipiac/WSJ/WP Obama 47% McCain 45%

This is where the Republicans held their convention and despite the fact that Obama has had a significant lead all year, things have really tightened up here since the convention. Minnesota was looked up on as a stronger state for Obama than Michigan or Wisconsin, but now it looks like he might have to fight for it to the same degree that he will have to fight for Pennsylvania.

Oregon: Research 2000 Obama 53% McCain 39%

A battleground state in 2000 and 2004, this year it definitely looks out of reach for McCain.


If the above latest polls are correct for each state, and the election were held just before the first debate the electoral college would have the following results:

Obama/Biden 301 McCain/Palin 237


The average for the past 4 months has been a slim win for Obama getting 273 to McCains 265. Obama achieves the victory by winning the red states of Iowa, Colorado and New Mexico. But this week, new polls in Virginia and North Carolina allow Obama to pick up Virginia and North Carolina.

Virginia and North Carolina are must win states for McCain. If McCain can't keep these states red, he does not have a chance in Colorado. In order to win, McCain is going to have to keep these states, or if he can't pick up Colorado then he must pick up a state like Pennsylvania, Michigan etc. Would it be easier for McCain to keep Colorado red, or turn Pennsylvania blue?

Its been a tough week for McCain because of the financial news that could seriously impact the economy. Still, the national polls are very close and the only damage that seems to have been done is in Virginia and North Carolina compared to the week before the financial crises.

The effect of the debate should be felt fully in the national polls by Tuesday with the effect on the state polls coming by the weekend or early the following week. But the above is just a snap shot of how things stand on September 26 just before the first debate.
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Old 09-27-2008, 05:28 AM   #149
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I liked the part early on in the debate when Obama called McCain Tom.
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Old 09-27-2008, 07:08 AM   #150
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I only caught the last hour or so. . .

Neither one really impressed me. Obama was rarely compelling and McCain was offputting with his condescending tone.

I really disliked McCain bringing up the dead soldier and I didn't like Obama hopping on that train and talking about HIS dead soldier.

One of the dumbest things Obama did was bringing up Kissinger (who is apparently one of McCain's advisers). If he's advising McCain you have to KNOW he's going to come out and say, "No, McCain was right." That was a blunder in my opinion.
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