2008 U.S. Presidential Campaign Discussion Thread 13: Victory Lap - Page 40 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind
Click Here to Login
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 11-15-2008, 06:44 PM   #586
Refugee
 
toscano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,032
Local Time: 01:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by diamond View Post
CHANGING OF THE GUARD
'Constitutional crisis' looming over Obama's birth location
Alan Keyes lawsuit warns America may see 'usurper' in Oval Office]
__________________

__________________
toscano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2008, 08:13 PM   #587
ONE
love, blood, life
 
financeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 10,122
Local Time: 09:05 PM
Black Man Given Nation's Worst Job | The Onion - America's Finest News Source
Quote:
WASHINGTON—African-American man Barack Obama, 47, was given the least-desirable job in the entire country Tuesday when he was elected president of the United States of America. In his new high-stress, low-reward position, Obama will be charged with such tasks as completely overhauling the nation's broken-down economy, repairing the crumbling infrastructure, and generally having to please more than 300 million Americans and cater to their every whim on a daily basis. As part of his duties, the black man will have to spend four to eight years cleaning up the messes other people left behind.
__________________

__________________
financeguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2008, 09:26 PM   #588
Refugee
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,943
Local Time: 08:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyfan26 View Post

To say you're sure history will look at this failure of an administration as a success is a huge stretch. Is it possible? I suppose. Is it likely? Not at all.

I don't consider the removal of the Taliban regime and the Saddam regime from power to be failures but major foreign policy successes key to the security of the United States and the world. The transformation under way in both Afghanistan and Iraq while not without mistakes has been amazing especially given the difficult circumstances for development in each country. Only the ignorant and uninformed could look at the past 8 years of GDP growth, unemployment, inflation, national debt as a percentage of GDP, and poverty rate in the United States and lable it a failure.


Bush's approval rating, given the facts above and what we know happened historically with Lincoln, Truman and even Nixon on this issue, will definitely improve.
__________________
Strongbow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2008, 10:13 PM   #589
Refugee
 
dazzlingamy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: The city of blinding lights and amazing coffee - Melbourne.
Posts: 2,468
Local Time: 07:05 AM
How terribly sad that people can be so hate filled towards another person. It just really shows the depth of viciousness human beings can reach.
I am slightly afraid that there will be an assasination attempt, and i'm just hoping that his secret service guys are like 100% on it, 24/7, because if anything way to happen to him, i think it would be the end of the USA as we know it.

I always remember reading after Sept 11th, how a few Sikhs were killed and assaulted because they wore turbans, and i just couldn't understand how people could do that to someone, but its becoming more apparant how easily it is to turn your hate towards someone who doesn't even deserve it, based on disgusting screwed up ideas.
__________________
dazzlingamy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2008, 08:47 AM   #590
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,881
Local Time: 03:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strongbow View Post
As time goes on, the information available to accurately judge such events increases. Equally important, much of the bias of politics and the media gets filtered out which helps to give a more honest, objective, and accurate view of the situation.

People also tend to put the time into a historical perspective accurately comparing it to other periods. The difficulty of events a President had to contend with compared to other administrations gets more consideration. Also, the full impact and benefits of some policies are sometimes not felt until years later. Provided the United States does not withdraw prematurely from Iraq and successfully helps it develop over the next few years, the number of people claiming that it would have been better to leave Saddam in power in Iraq will continue to drop. Regardless of who you think is responsible for the basic macro-economic statistics over the past 8 years for the USA, the record there overall is actually very good, especially the poverty rate which has been the third lowest of any US administration in history.
This is a nut busting post from you. For example, Colin Powel, a respected member of the administration appeared on Meet the Press and discounted your positions on WMD in pre war Iraq. I posted his quotes, and you never responded.

Historically, we do not need much of a lens as of now, there are PLENTY of former members of this administration who have written the truth.

Only a few, cling to the lies.

Statistics, can be manipulated to say what one wants along with intelligence reports.
__________________
Dreadsox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2008, 02:03 PM   #591
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 30,343
Local Time: 03:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strongbow View Post
I don't consider the removal of the Taliban regime and the Saddam regime from power to be failures but major foreign policy successes key to the security of the United States and the world. The transformation under way in both Afghanistan and Iraq while not without mistakes has been amazing especially given the difficult circumstances for development in each country. Only the ignorant and uninformed could look at the past 8 years of GDP growth, unemployment, inflation, national debt as a percentage of GDP, and poverty rate in the United States and lable it a failure.
Only the ignorant and uninformed would say that an economy that fell into a terrible recession was a failure?

Also, it's "label."
__________________
phillyfan26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2008, 02:22 PM   #592
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,881
Local Time: 03:05 PM
Now now, as long as we are not ignorant and uninformed, we can spell words any way we chose.
__________________
Dreadsox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2008, 04:50 PM   #593
Refugee
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,943
Local Time: 08:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreadsox View Post
This is a nut busting post from you. For example, Colin Powel, a respected member of the administration appeared on Meet the Press and discounted your positions on WMD in pre war Iraq.
The only thing I said about Iraq above is that as the years go by, the number of people claiming that it would have been better to leave Saddam in power in Iraq will continue to drop. Colin Powell has never stated that it was a mistake to remove Saddam from power. When it comes to whether or not the United States should have used its military to remove Saddam from power in 2003, he still supports the move. He went on Barbara Walters show in 2005 and dispelled all the rumours that he did not support the invasion by stating that "when the President said it was not tolerable for Saddam to remain in violation of these UN Resolutions, I am right there with him on the use of military force".



Quote:
I posted his quotes, and you never responded.
There are all kinds of things that get posted on this board that many never see and obviously don't get to respond to.

Quote:
Historically, we do not need much of a lens as of now, there are PLENTY of former members of this administration who have written the truth.
There are certainly many knowledgeable people who don't need time and a lens to understand that removing Saddam from power was the right thing to do in 2003. It will take the majority of the general public though a little longer, just as it took it several years or decades to realize that US military intervention in Korea was not a mistake.

Quote:
Only a few, cling to the lies.
No one lied. But its obviously going to take time for some to come to that conclusion as well.

Quote:
Statistics, can be manipulated to say what one wants along with intelligence reports.
In the case of the Democrats on the issue of Iraq, that has certainly been the case.


US security concerns in regards to Iraq never rested solely on Saddam's mere technical capacity in regards to WMD in 2003, but also involved the potential of Saddam to increase what ever WMD and conventional military capacities or abilities he had at the time in the years to come, because of the weakness of sanctions and the embargo and the inability or difficulty in strengthening them. It also involved Saddam's long record on the issue of cooperation with the international community on WMD and the other issues surrounding his invasion of Kuwait and the aftermath of the 1991 Gulf War. The ability to deter Saddam in the future based on the record of the past 25 years he had been in power. The cost of acting now(2003) when Saddam would naturally be weaker as opposed to 5 or 10 years later when both his WMD and conventional military capabilities would be much stronger because of the weakness and the essential end of the sanctions regime and embargo, plus the increasing price of oil which would enrich Saddam's regime and allow him to acquire certain capabilities faster than he had been able to in the past. The other risk of waiting or not removing Saddam in 2003 was also that he could act against US interest before any action was taken to remove him.

Intelligence has never been perfect especially when it comes to detecting the storing and manufacture of WMD or WMD related activities. Its far more difficult than locating a tank platoon or a missile battery. The failures in intelligence only re-emphasize the fact that the only way to insure that Saddam did not have WMD, would not develop more WMD, and would never be a threat to the region again, was to remove him from power. The United States could not rely on its intelligence capacity alone to inform it when Saddam had or how far along he was on any particular area in regards to the production and development of WMD as time went on. Its been proven to be the case in the aftermath of what the US found in Iraq after the 1991 Gulf War and what it found in Iraq after Saddam was removed in 2003. If one believes it was a necessity to insure that Saddam would never again have any sort of WMD capability, and in light of Saddam's behavior on disarmament issues from 1991 to 2003, the fact that Saddam was found to have hid programs related to production of WMD from inspectors in 2002-2003, the only solution was to remove the Saddam regime from power and the sooner that could be done, the less costly the whole invasion and occupation would be. Waiting simply would have allowed Saddam to acquire more conventional and unconventional military capabilities that would have raised US, coalition, and Iraqi casualties during the invasion and in the occupation phase.
__________________
Strongbow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2008, 05:03 PM   #594
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
Vincent Vega's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Berlin
Posts: 6,615
Local Time: 09:05 PM
It is quite telling that the rather broad question of how people will view Bush in 50 years gets reduced to the need for Saddam to be removed (oh, and sometimes those economic figures). As if that was the only important thing at all that happened.

And even if time got more honest with what happened in the past, which is true when it comes to policies which effects we will only see long-term, there's no guarantee this will lead to a more positive view for Bush. So much stuff going during his administration was all but good, like the total disregard for the climatic change, utterly terrible environmental policies, undermining peoples' ability to hold the government responsible and all those violations of human rights during the "war on terror".
__________________
Vincent Vega is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2008, 10:19 AM   #595
Blue Crack Addict
 
MrsSpringsteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 24,974
Local Time: 03:05 PM
Did anyone watch the Obama's 60 Minutes interview last night?
__________________
MrsSpringsteen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2008, 10:24 AM   #596
Blue Crack Addict
 
U2democrat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: England by way of 'Murica.
Posts: 22,140
Local Time: 08:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsSpringsteen View Post
Did anyone watch the Obama's 60 Minutes interview last night?
I watched it until the Redskins game came on...but we won't discuss that
__________________
U2democrat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2008, 11:01 AM   #597
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
sue4u2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: hatching some plot, scheming some scheme
Posts: 6,628
Local Time: 03:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsSpringsteen View Post
Did anyone watch the Obama's 60 Minutes interview last night?
I did. Except for a phone call, I caught most of it. They really are a delightful couple.
__________________
sue4u2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2008, 11:27 AM   #598
Blue Crack Distributor
 
LarryMullen's POPAngel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: I'll be up with the sun, I'm not coming down...
Posts: 53,698
Local Time: 03:05 PM
I caught most of it.
__________________
LarryMullen's POPAngel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2008, 11:34 AM   #599
Blue Crack Addict
 
joyfulgirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 16,615
Local Time: 01:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sue4u2 View Post
I did. Except for a phone call, I caught most of it. They really are a delightful couple.
__________________
joyfulgirl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2008, 02:31 PM   #600
ONE
love, blood, life
 
U2isthebest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Vision over visibility....
Posts: 12,332
Local Time: 04:05 PM
I watched it. It was excellent, and I almost think I'm dreaming sometimes when I realize we have an intelligent president again. Barack and Michelle are a great couple. I can't wait to see them and the girls in the White House.
__________________

__________________
U2isthebest is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:05 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com