2008 U.S. Presidential Campaign Discussion Thread 13: Victory Lap - Page 38 - U2 Feedback

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Old 11-14-2008, 10:39 AM   #556
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Originally Posted by A_Wanderer View Post

Ignoring certain posters betrays a weakness of character, that some leftist posters take pride in it says a lot about them.
Actually no, it doesn't.

It shows a respect for the other posters by saving us the back and forth between two people who will never agree on anything and the rest of us want to retch every time we see them get into it.
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Old 11-14-2008, 10:40 AM   #557
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Originally Posted by A_Wanderer View Post
Ignoring certain posters betrays a weakness of character, that some leftist posters take pride in it says a lot about them.


i deemed it better for everyone that i put one specific person on my ignore list.

i think we're all better off.
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Old 11-14-2008, 10:42 AM   #558
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Originally Posted by Vincent Vega View Post
Sure, disapproving of course means "a great thing to bash the President".


i think it's quite safe to say that,

highest disapproval rating in history = least popular president in history

especially now that we have many more people answering the polls and expressing their actual opinions.
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Old 11-14-2008, 11:35 AM   #559
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The only time you will hear Obama messing up is if those on the Right feel the need to bring it up.

The Left never holds their own accountable.

Therein lies a stark difference between the two mindsets.

<>
Yes, when the right screws up, they just "accidentily" label them with a 'D' when they report it.

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Old 11-14-2008, 02:51 PM   #560
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Originally Posted by A_Wanderer View Post
I really hate the ignore feature, it annoys be because it betrays an unwillingness to expose yourself to the offensive, dissenting or inane. The simple fact is that Diamond is a man who embraces a religion no more fraudulent than others and has the decency to stand up for what his church actually teaches - as opposed to claiming to be a Christian while explicitly denying that Jesus was the son of God or performed miracles.

That he does this with half-truths and plagiarism is irrelevant to the fact he actually injects a religious conservative perspective into the discussion, which at least provokes reasoned responses. His contribution is that a single post provokes multiple replies, of offense or systematic rebuttal. He is one of the few posters that would actually disagree with anything I post out of principle, the rest simply think its bad taste or flogging a dead horse.

Ignoring certain posters betrays a weakness of character, that some leftist posters take pride in it says a lot about them. I think that argument is valuable, it encourages critical thinking and reveals what people actually care about, leaping to ad hominem attacks and ignoring the content may be the best way to silence such posters, but it results in boring threads. Argument illuminates and gets closer to truth, it hones rhetorical skills, the purpose isn't to sway the person you are arguing with but those who are listening, I like having posters like Diamond around because they inject some dissent and give me a sounding board to craft new arguments from. If they go I will have to shift onto liberal bullshit more and more, I think that the Christian left is already going to be in for a good deal of verbiage from me due to Obama and Rudd.

Consensus is dangerous, it doesn't make a position right, this isn't a warning it is a statement of fact, Obama will fuck up some things and it will engage the right, and some of that will spill into FYM, for the better I might add.
Actually, I ignored him from reading his posts in other forums on here such as (ha) Everything You Know Is Wrong.

So, yeah.
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Old 11-14-2008, 03:30 PM   #561
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Originally Posted by Strongbow View Post
Today, many consider it a great thing to bash the President of the country whether they be a Democrat or a Republican.

Thats why the most accurate gauge is the approval rating. Bush's low so far is 25%, still not as low as Trumans at 22% or Nixons at 24%.
Not at all. If Bush had done well, I'd have credited him. In fact, what were his ratings right after 9/11? Through the roof. Which means that people aren't just bashing him for the sake of bashing him, like you imply. He earned every bit of his atrocious rating.

Saying he's slightly better than Truman and Nixon isn't an accomplishment.

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Originally Posted by A_Wanderer View Post
I really hate the ignore feature, it annoys be because it betrays an unwillingness to expose yourself to the offensive, dissenting or inane. The simple fact is that Diamond is a man who embraces a religion no more fraudulent than others and has the decency to stand up for what his church actually teaches - as opposed to claiming to be a Christian while explicitly denying that Jesus was the son of God or performed miracles.

That he does this with half-truths and plagiarism is irrelevant to the fact he actually injects a religious conservative perspective into the discussion, which at least provokes reasoned responses. His contribution is that a single post provokes multiple replies, of offense or systematic rebuttal. He is one of the few posters that would actually disagree with anything I post out of principle, the rest simply think its bad taste or flogging a dead horse.

Ignoring certain posters betrays a weakness of character, that some leftist posters take pride in it says a lot about them. I think that argument is valuable, it encourages critical thinking and reveals what people actually care about, leaping to ad hominem attacks and ignoring the content may be the best way to silence such posters, but it results in boring threads. Argument illuminates and gets closer to truth, it hones rhetorical skills, the purpose isn't to sway the person you are arguing with but those who are listening, I like having posters like Diamond around because they inject some dissent and give me a sounding board to craft new arguments from. If they go I will have to shift onto liberal bullshit more and more, I think that the Christian left is already going to be in for a good deal of verbiage from me due to Obama and Rudd.

Consensus is dangerous, it doesn't make a position right, this isn't a warning it is a statement of fact, Obama will fuck up some things and it will engage the right, and some of that will spill into FYM, for the better I might add.
I don't care at all about diamond's religious views. At all. I never feel the need to bring Mormonism into the discussion with him.

What frustrates me about diamond is a total inability to discuss issues in the realm of reality, the realm of facts. His posts consist of either quoted articles by right wingers or winks and smileys next to statements of his greatness that are only partially kidding with you.

I don't ignore him, because I agree the ignore list is useless. I've only put people on my ignore list when discussions with them led to moderator issues.

But to say it's religious intolerance is inaccurate in some cases, like mine. I don't give a fuck about Mormonism, because every religion has major flaws.
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Old 11-14-2008, 03:34 PM   #562
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The only time you will hear Obama messing up is if those on the Right feel the need to bring it up.

The Left never holds their own accountable.

Therein lies a stark difference between the two mindsets.

<>
You want to hear me mention Obama mess-ups? Sure, here you go:

- He took much too weak of a stance on Proposition 8.
- He is only for civil unions, not gay marriage.
- He made an ad that wasn't entirely factual, like many of McCain's ads.

I held my own accountable.

You've never held anyone in your party accountable ever. It's a classic "pot calling the kettle black." You're a complete sellout to the little "R" next to politician's names, and have proven it time and again. So, please, don't tell me I'm not holding my own accountable when I am and you never have. It's just pathetic.

And I don't want some reply involving a ridiculous, irrelevant, inaccurate article or some "jokes" with smileys. Start actually discussing the issues, earn some respect. Please. For all of us.

And, most importantly, don't ignore posts like this one that attempt to reach out and engage you.
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Old 11-14-2008, 04:51 PM   #563
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Originally Posted by phillyfan26 View Post
You want to hear me mention Obama mess-ups? Sure, here you go:

- He took much too weak of a stance on Proposition 8.
- He is only for civil unions, not gay marriage.
The American public has to be held accountable for this too. I truly believe that Obama personally has little problem with gay marriage, and that he was against Prop 8.

The problem is that you CANNOT get elected president in this country if you come out publicly and strongly in favor of gay marriage. It's sad and it's sorry but it's true.

Now, you can say, 'then he's already proved that getting elected was more important to him than keeping his integrity' or something like that. But to publicly come out in favor of gay marriage, thus sabotaging his candidacy, would be to throw away the chance to do good or even great things concerning other issues just to be 100% open about his views on this one thing. Yes, I would love it if he could publicly come out in favor of gay marriage and condemn the people that voted in favor of prop 8, but it even now it would sabotage his presidency before its even started because there are just two many people that, sadly, would feel uncomfortable supporting him. It's absurd but it's true.
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Old 11-14-2008, 04:53 PM   #564
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The American public has to be held accountable for this too. I truly believe that Obama personally has little problem with gay marriage, and that he was against Prop 8.

The problem is that you CANNOT get elected president in this country if you come out publicly and strongly in favor of gay marriage. It's sad and it's sorry but it's true.

Now, you can say, 'then he's already proved that getting elected was more important to him than keeping his integrity' or something like that. But to publicly come out in favor of gay marriage, thus sabotaging his candidacy, would be to throw away the chance to do good or even great things concerning other issues just to be 100% open about his views on this one thing. Yes, I would love it if he could publicly come out in favor of gay marriage and condemn the people that voted in favor of prop 8, but it even now it would sabotage his presidency before its even started because there are just two many people that, sadly, would feel uncomfortable supporting him. It's absurd but it's true.
I agree with all of this. And if you look at statements he has made regarding gay marriage, he's left himself a lot of wiggle room to "change his mind" in the future.
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Old 11-14-2008, 05:18 PM   #565
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^

Yeah, I agree too.
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Old 11-14-2008, 05:49 PM   #566
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Originally Posted by diamond View Post
The only time you will hear Obama messing up is if those on the Right feel the need to bring it up.

The Left never holds their own accountable.

Therein lies a stark difference between the two mindsets.

<>
The partisanship in thread opening or article linking can be attributed to both sides of the aisle. There is only a few exceptions.
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Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
i think it's quite safe to say that,

highest disapproval rating in history = least popular president in history

especially now that we have many more people answering the polls and expressing their actual opinions.
Ah no, too easy. They just have so much fun in bashing this poor guy.
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Old 11-14-2008, 06:13 PM   #567
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Originally Posted by anitram View Post
Actually no, it doesn't.

It shows a respect for the other posters by saving us the back and forth between two people who will never agree on anything and the rest of us want to retch every time we see them get into it.
You don't need to not see peoples posts to ignore them.
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Old 11-14-2008, 09:23 PM   #568
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Originally Posted by Zoomerang96 View Post

out of morbid curiousity, aren't you sick of drinking kool aid by now?
Well, thats really a question that is better suited for the vast majority in here that tend to be on the left side of the fence and skip or ingore the tiny number of post that disagree with their political views.
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Old 11-14-2008, 09:30 PM   #569
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He earned every bit of his atrocious rating.

Saying he's slightly better than Truman and Nixon isn't an accomplishment.
Today, most people believe that Truman was one of the greatest Presidents of all time, and the majority of Americans approve of US military intervention in the Korean war. The country's majority opinions of Presidents and issues can change over time. Its occured with both Abraham Lincoln and Harry Truman. Even Nixon is looked at in a better and more objective light than at the time he left office in 1974. History will likely have a much more positive judgement of the Bush years than current polling shows, just as the case has been with Truman.
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Old 11-14-2008, 09:42 PM   #570
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East Germans today say the GDR wasn't as bad as they sad it was in 1990. History tends to leave people with a nostalgia that paints many thinks in a more positive way. Sometimes justified, at other times not.

But what value does it have for us if people in 30, 50 years or 150 years view Bush in a more positive light than people view him these days? We judge him by the current knowledge we have about him, in 50 years that knowledge will be much more filtered, influencing what people will have to say about him then.
Right now, he was a disgrace for this country.
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