2008 Presidential Election : Third Debate - Page 39 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind
Click Here to Login
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 10-17-2008, 11:49 AM   #571
Refugee
 
ImOuttaControl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Duluth, MN
Posts: 1,340
Local Time: 06:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
what is your definition of this phrase?
my definition is basically the progressive tax. Tax people at a higher percentage the more money they make, take that money and use it for welfare programs/tax breaks or whatever for people that don't make as much money. "spread the wealth around."

BTW, I don't believe that all welfare programs are bad, I just don't think we need to expand them any more.

Anyway, the sun is shining, the leaves are bright, and my hunting land is waiting for a nice campfire...I'm not going to be discussing this anymore today.
__________________

__________________
ImOuttaControl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2008, 11:49 AM   #572
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,494
Local Time: 07:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImOuttaControl View Post
Hard right? LOL. If you only knew. On this site, yes anything right of far left seems far right doesn't it?

Speaking of which, I when is the last time that people on here took the political compass test? I took it recently...I was almost perfectly in the middle...slightly libertarian and slightly to the right...but like I said, almost directly in the middle.

I don't live in a bubble, you know nothing of my life, my hardships, or my experiences, so don't pretend to. I haven't thrown out insults this morning while making my point...it's the lefties who have done that While I wish I had the time to fully describe myself on here, but I do have a busy life and a full time job...my "naivete" as you call it is the fact that while I have the ability to back up my arguements, I dont' have the time. I quite simply cant figure how some people have the time to post as much as they do in here.

well, this was pretty rude. as for Hard Right -- yes, i think tossing charges of "socialism" and using the boogeyman of "redistribution of wealth" is a Hard Right position. it's one that keeps getting tossed around by, say, Hugh Hewitt in a pretty knee-jerk response, and you managed to include pejorative phrases like "the lefties."

no, of course i don't know your life. but i'm willing to bet that my boyfriend has done everything you have in terms of lifting himself up by his bootstraps, but he doesn't share your opinion that all people need to do is work a little bit harder. i do think that's a naive position. people get screwed by forces far beyond their control, and it is in *everyone's* best interests to help them out.

i do think that's one thing that might separate urban from rural voters. we actually see inequality every day. we walk by it on the street. we know that safer streets are dependent upon government programs that work (and, yes, personal charity). mostly, it's dependent upon people feeling like they have a stake in their society, in their neighborhood, and in their neighbors.
__________________

__________________
Irvine511 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2008, 11:50 AM   #573
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,494
Local Time: 07:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImOuttaControl View Post
my definition is basically the progressive tax. Tax people at a higher percentage the more money they make, take that money and use it for welfare programs/tax breaks or whatever for people that don't make as much money. "spread the wealth around."


you realize that this is what has been going on for the past century? you'd prefer a flat tax?
__________________
Irvine511 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2008, 11:52 AM   #574
Refugee
 
ImOuttaControl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Duluth, MN
Posts: 1,340
Local Time: 06:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by indra View Post
Wow, have you really read posts from more than half of all the people on this site? That's impressive -- I salute you, dude!

Haha...no, I would go crazy if I did that. There are a lot of personal insults when people disagree...

The nature of the internet, people are more willing to insult one another when you can't see the person on the other side.
__________________
ImOuttaControl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2008, 11:52 AM   #575
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,687
Local Time: 06:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImOuttaControl View Post
I don't believe in socialism. I believe in a flat tax with no loopholes. If you think that's lazy, then that's your perogative.
That's great, but I said nothing of your belief... Did you read my comment? I said you lazily labeled people and policies as "socialist".
__________________
BVS is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2008, 11:53 AM   #576
Refugee
 
toscano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,032
Local Time: 05:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
you realize that this is what has been going on for the past century? you'd prefer a flat tax?
What I've found from people who prefer a flat tax is that they don't want a "flat tax break" policy to go along with it. god forbid thye lose their state tax, mortgage interest, property tax etc deductions.
__________________
toscano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2008, 11:58 AM   #577
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
Utoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Lovetown
Posts: 8,343
Local Time: 08:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImOuttaControl View Post
Utoo prefaced their arguement with the "ignorant" comment.

Listen, you can be ignorant of a fact without being a bad person. Ask a moody teenager if he thinks his overbearing parent is really trying to make his life better.


I can talk the talk if you want. Here's a snapshot. I started working when I was 11. Woke up every day at 6am and worked my paper route. Over the next 7 years, I earned $20,000 from that paper route. I saved all of it. Bought my first car, paid for the insurance. Worked 6 different jobs throughout my 4 years of college. First person on my father's side to go to college. When friends would go out and spend money on drinks, etc., I stayed home. A friend told me a night out would cost $10; I told her $10 a week to go out was too much. I studied hard, putting in 10-hour study days on weekends before exams. Worked hard enough to get into medical school. Now I'm a doctor.

I don't overlook the fact that my grandparents came from Italy with no money. That my grandfather worked 12-hour days lifting appliances at the local Sears in order to buy a plot of land. That my grandfather built the house my father grew up in with his own hands. That my other grandfather fought in World War II and shattered the vertebrae in his spine fighting for something better, paving the way for the country that I live in now. That my father has worked 6-7 days a week as a carpenter, a job that brutalizes his body, in order to help me go to the $35K/year Georgetown instead of the local college that gave me a free ride so that I can do something better. That public schools provided 13 years of my education. That while becoming valedictorian over several hundred other kids in high school was due in large part to my own efforts and abilities, I cannot overlook that a significant portion of my high school were poor, had to work after school instead of study, had parents who were high and beat them, lived in situations that encouraged them not to view school as a way out. That the paper route that allowed me to buy my first car and pay for some of college myself was in an affluent area in which I could make $350 in Christmas tips alone. That no one who is not already independently wealthy can afford to go to medical school without government loans to combat the $160,000 cost. That the ease with which I move throughout society is indeed influenced by the fact that I am white, male, straight, Christian, tall, and athletic. That had, by the simple grace of nature, I been born in Malawi, Tanzania, China, Russia, Cuba, Honduras, or even Arkansas, my life would be vastly different than it is today.

If you want, I can keep going.

I can overlook all of those facts, and I'd still be a good person.

But I'd be ignorant of those facts.
__________________
Utoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2008, 12:01 PM   #578
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,494
Local Time: 07:55 AM
it does take a village.
__________________
Irvine511 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2008, 12:02 PM   #579
Refugee
 
ImOuttaControl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Duluth, MN
Posts: 1,340
Local Time: 06:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
well, this was pretty rude. as for Hard Right -- yes, i think tossing charges of "socialism" and using the boogeyman of "redistribution of wealth" is a Hard Right position. it's one that keeps getting tossed around by, say, Hugh Hewitt in a pretty knee-jerk response, and you managed to include pejorative phrases like "the lefties."

no, of course i don't know your life. but i'm willing to bet that my boyfriend has done everything you have in terms of lifting himself up by his bootstraps, but he doesn't share your opinion that all people need to do is work a little bit harder. i do think that's a naive position. people get screwed by forces far beyond their control, and it is in *everyone's* best interests to help them out.

i do think that's one thing that might separate urban from rural voters. we actually see inequality every day. we walk by it on the street. we know that safer streets are dependent upon government programs that work (and, yes, personal charity). mostly, it's dependent upon people feeling like they have a stake in their society, in their neighborhood, and in their neighbors.

rude? where? I consider it rude to call me hard right! It's insulting! lol.

While I may seem quite far to the right, I'm really not. I do see a purpose for social welfare programs...I think it's important that people have some safety net in the case of something happening outside of one's control. At the same time, I don't think it's fair to propose an even higher rate of tax for people just because they became successful.
__________________
ImOuttaControl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2008, 12:05 PM   #580
Refugee
 
ImOuttaControl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Duluth, MN
Posts: 1,340
Local Time: 06:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utoo View Post
Listen, you can be ignorant of a fact without being a bad person. Ask a moody teenager if he thinks his overbearing parent is really trying to make his life better.


I can talk the talk if you want. Here's a snapshot. I started working when I was 11. Woke up every day at 6am and worked my paper route. Over the next 7 years, I earned $20,000 from that paper route. I saved all of it. Bought my first car, paid for the insurance. Worked 6 different jobs throughout my 4 years of college. First person on my father's side to go to college. When friends would go out and spend money on drinks, etc., I stayed home. A friend told me a night out would cost $10; I told her $10 a week to go out was too much. I studied hard, putting in 10-hour study days on weekends before exams. Worked hard enough to get into medical school. Now I'm a doctor.

I don't overlook the fact that my grandparents came from Italy with no money. That my grandfather worked 12-hour days lifting appliances at the local Sears in order to buy a plot of land. That my grandfather built the house my father grew up in with his own hands. That my other grandfather fought in World War II and shattered the vertebrae in his spine fighting for something better, paving the way for the country that I live in now. That my father has worked 6-7 days a week as a carpenter, a job that brutalizes his body, in order to help me go to the $35K/year Georgetown instead of the local college that gave me a free ride so that I can do something better. That public schools provided 13 years of my education. That while becoming valedictorian over several hundred other kids in high school was due in large part to my own efforts and abilities, I cannot overlook that a significant portion of my high school were poor, had to work after school instead of study, had parents who were high and beat them, lived in situations that encouraged them not to view school as a way out. That the paper route that allowed me to buy my first car and pay for some of college myself was in an affluent area in which I could make $350 in Christmas tips alone. That no one who is not already independently wealthy can afford to go to medical school without government loans to combat the $160,000 cost. That the ease with which I move throughout society is indeed influenced by the fact that I am white, male, straight, Christian, tall, and athletic. That had, by the simple grace of nature, I been born in Malawi, Tanzania, China, Russia, Cuba, Honduras, or even Arkansas, my life would be vastly different than it is today.

If you want, I can keep going.

I can overlook all of those facts, and I'd still be a good person.

But I'd be ignorant of those facts.

Facts are what we want them to be based on our belief system. Simply put, our believe systems are different. That does not make me ignorant, it makes me someone with a different opinion!
__________________
ImOuttaControl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2008, 12:05 PM   #581
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
Utoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Lovetown
Posts: 8,343
Local Time: 08:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImOuttaControl View Post
I haven't thrown out insults this morning while making my point...it's the lefties who have done that While I wish I had the time to fully describe myself on here, but I do have a busy life and a full time job...my "naivete" as you call it is the fact that while I have the ability to back up my arguements, I dont' have the time. I quite simply cant figure how some people have the time to post as much as they do in here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImOuttaControl View Post
Haha...no, I would go crazy if I did that. There are a lot of personal insults when people disagree...

The nature of the internet, people are more willing to insult one another when you can't see the person on the other side.
Your words may not be sarcastic. But I'd be amiss to say that there's nothing insulting in your tone at all.
__________________
Utoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2008, 12:10 PM   #582
Refugee
 
ImOuttaControl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Duluth, MN
Posts: 1,340
Local Time: 06:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
i do think that's one thing that might separate urban from rural voters. we actually see inequality every day. we walk by it on the street. we know that safer streets are dependent upon government programs that work (and, yes, personal charity). mostly, it's dependent upon people feeling like they have a stake in their society, in their neighborhood, and in their neighbors.


Oh, and believe me, being a teacher in a rural area, I definitely see inequity on a daily basis. Be careful with assumptions, they're usually wrong. I've taught students who don't have enough to eat, don't have electricity to get assignments done...I've seen the related drug/alcohol problems.

Like I said, I'm not quite as extreme right as some on here would like to paint me. As a society, we always need to protect our children, our elderly, and people who can't take care of themselves.


Imagine this...I was proctoring a state writing test. The question was along the lines of "what was your favorite family vacation."

Half of the students had never even been out of the county...let alone off on a family vacation.
__________________
ImOuttaControl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2008, 12:17 PM   #583
Refugee
 
toscano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,032
Local Time: 05:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImOuttaControl View Post
Be careful with assumptions, they're usually wrong.
"Most people would consider that far left"

Yes, I see what you mean.
__________________
toscano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2008, 12:20 PM   #584
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,494
Local Time: 07:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImOuttaControl View Post
rude? where? I consider it rude to call me hard right! It's insulting! lol.

While I may seem quite far to the right, I'm really not. I do see a purpose for social welfare programs...I think it's important that people have some safety net in the case of something happening outside of one's control. At the same time, I don't think it's fair to propose an even higher rate of tax for people just because they became successful.


so you're not opposed to socialism, per se, you just think that taxes should be lower? or that everyone should be taxed at exactly the same rate, regardless of income?
__________________
Irvine511 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2008, 12:31 PM   #585
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,881
Local Time: 07:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOFO View Post
Letterman tore him a new ass. Good for Dave.
YouTube - McCain/Letterman Have Spirited Exchange

How exactly was your clip demonstrative of him getting a new one torn?
__________________

__________________
Dreadsox is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:55 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com