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Old 10-17-2008, 10:30 AM   #541
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[QUOTE=Utoo;5542412]

Once again, the guy's totally false. What are his plans to take the $100K/year company and turn its profitability into a $250K/year? If he can do that, maybe he should be President. Now he's saying that he can't trust someone who decides that $250K is the threshhold because you can never tell if that person will someday decide if $100K is the threshhold. Sounds to me more like the guy has an issue with the general notion of taxes and tax brackets overall---not an issue with how Obama's plan would specifically affect him, seeing as how it won't.
[Quote]


Joe is not what is in question here--it's the fact that Obama slipped up and said what he actually plans on doing--redistributing income of those that have earned that money to those that haven't. Socialism, plain and simple.

Is it impossible to believe that some people disagree with the principle that the government should decide how much income is too much and redistribute that income lower income individuals? I make under $40K per year as a teacher, so I could be selfish and be all for taxing the "rich" being as I won't be making 250K any time soon. I do, however, value personal responsibility, small government, and individual initiative. I know it's hard to believe that here in this liberal wonderland called "free your mind," but some people do still believe that if you work hard and make good choices, you can (and should) be rewarded without the government taking your money and redistributing it.
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Old 10-17-2008, 10:40 AM   #542
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Leave Joe the plumber alone!
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Old 10-17-2008, 10:40 AM   #543
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Look, under Obama's plan $250,000's worth of taxes is $900, and for a buisness you can still get tax break on top of that.
There's been WAY too much made of this; besides, it makes sense to me that rich republicans who voted for Bush twice can pay for the war he started.
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Old 10-17-2008, 10:40 AM   #544
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it's the fact that Obama slipped up and said what he actually plans on doing--redistributing income of those that have earned that money to those that haven't. Socialism, plain and simple.
Obama didn't "slip up." He made a statement.

Then can I take it you don't support the bailout?
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Old 10-17-2008, 10:42 AM   #545
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After 8 years of Bush being beyond reproach and people getting attacked for questioning him, we assumed it was accepted practice.

Didn't realize the rules changed now that it's your guys on the other end of the stick, sorry!

Sorry, but can you honestly say that Bush has been "beyond reproach" for the last 4-5 years? If so, then the kool-aid must be awfully strong. Bush has received scrutiny for just about everything he's done since the beginning of 2004.

"your guys on the other end of the stick?" You mean an average American asking a pertinent question to the most unscrutinized Presidential candidate in modern American history? If my guy is someone asking an honest question about the fairness of a progressive tax, then I guess that would be my guy...cuz I'm so rich.

Face it, Obama had a bit of a Freudian slip. He's done a great job coming across as moderate, but this has shown what he truely believes and that he in fact is far left. Why is the left so worried to tell the American People what they actually believe?
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Old 10-17-2008, 10:43 AM   #546
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Did anyone catch McCain on Letterman last night? Letterman and crew put together some hilarious video from the last debate! Good stuff!

Letterman tore him a new ass. Good for Dave.
YouTube - McCain/Letterman Have Spirited Exchange
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Old 10-17-2008, 10:46 AM   #547
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The problem is that no one works hard, makes choices, and earns money in a bubble. To think that your own success is not greatly due to the environment and people around you is purely ignorant.

No matter what you do for a living, your success at it is influenced by:

- The sacrifices of people before you
- The decisions of people before you
- The sacrifices and decisions of your peers
- Your parents' situation, whether rich, poor, or in between
- The public education system; whether you went or not, your customers/employees/coworkers/bosses/competitors did.
- Your race
- Your sex
- The socioeconomic condition of the people with whom you do business
- The health of your customers/employees/bosses/competitors/family
- The public infrastructure
- The economy of the country, state, city, town in which you live and do business
- The fact that you were born into the country of your birth, as opposed to one with better/worse conditions, policies, and liberties


That is not to say that personal achievement and success is not to be rewarded. In fact, it is. If you view your success solely in economic terms, you'll only look at taxes and think that you're being penalized for success. But if you view your success solely in economic terms, you're missing out on the majority of your success and I greatly pity you.

No one lives in a bubble. Everyone benefits from other people and from influences related to the government and society in which they live. If an individual thinks that his or her success is entirely based on his or her own merits, that individual is dead wrong. If you benefit greatly from other people's situations and from the situations the nation and society have provided for you----you fucking give back.
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Old 10-17-2008, 10:47 AM   #548
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Originally Posted by ImOuttaControl View Post

Face it, Obama had a bit of a Freudian slip.
No he didn't. He made a statement.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ImOuttaControl View Post
He's done a great job coming across as moderate, but this has shown what he truely believes and that he in fact is far left.


People in the US wouldn't know a "far left" candidate from Adam.

And where is all this "kool aid" talk from the right coming from? Was there some kind of email?
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Old 10-17-2008, 10:49 AM   #549
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Obama didn't "slip up." He made a statement.

Then can I take it you don't support the bailout?
He slipped up--he's been portraying himself as moderate...his comment proves he believes in redistribution of wealth--not a very moderate idea.

Yeah, I have real problems with bailout bill...I fear it will cause a slippery slope...but on the flip side we need to use the lessons of the Great Depression and do everything we can to prevent a serious recession/depression. But I will openy admit that I'm no economist...but I am very uncomfortable with the government bailing out businesses/people who make bad decisions, then taking a stake in the company.
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Old 10-17-2008, 10:54 AM   #550
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No he didn't. He made a statement.





People in the US wouldn't know a "far left" candidate from Adam.

And where is all this "kool aid" talk from the right coming from? Was there some kind of email?
He made a statement that shows that he is a believer in redistribution of wealth. Most people would consider that far left, but I need to remember where I post, so that may seem like a middle-of-the-road idea around here.

Kool aid? eh, I dunno..I've used it for years to describe wingnuts on both sides. I guess I've heard both sides use the term plenty--MSNBC to FOX.
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Old 10-17-2008, 11:05 AM   #551
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He made a statement that shows that he is a believer in redistribution of wealth. Most people would consider that far left,
Most intelligent people would ask for more details/clarification before jumping to that conclusion

Most taxpayers would want to see bonuses/salaries slashed of CEOs/Execs of firms being "bailed out", isn't that a redistribution of wealth ? Isn't that Socialism ?
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Old 10-17-2008, 11:09 AM   #552
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Don't go around using common sense, that's not liked in here...
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Old 10-17-2008, 11:11 AM   #553
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so that may seem like a middle-of-the-road idea around here.
You should check out political parties around the world to see what's "left" and what's "right."
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Old 10-17-2008, 11:12 AM   #554
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[QUOTE=Utoo;5542495] To think that your own success is not greatly due to the environment and people around you is purely ignorant.
QUOTE]

My success came from the fact that, instead of sitting around waiting for someone else to take care of me, I went to college. I paid for it, my car, my apartment...everything without the help of the government. When i saw my friends buy nice cars after high school, I bought a piece of crap. When i saw my friends going on spring break to the Carribean, I stayed home and worked....now those people I knew with bad priorities are the ones that now have crappy jobs and are sitting around waiting for the government to "give back" to them.

In this country, you have a CHOICE to become the best person you can be. It's called individual liberty. Personal Responsibility. Individual Initiative.


Maybe I should start grading my students using your philosophy...

I've begun to feel that an "A" is too high of a grade for any student to have. I need to "spread some of that knowledge around." I'm gonna start taking my "A" students, and giving a portion of their grade to the lower performing students...they need the help to get to the same level that those "A" students are at. I'm also going to take my "B" students and redistribute their grade to my students with an "F" or a "D." My goal is to have everyone on the same playing field at a "C."

Yeah, I know those "A" students have worked hard, but they better "fucking give back." because we want everyone to have that "C" average.
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Old 10-17-2008, 11:13 AM   #555
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He slipped up--

If believing that Obama can "slip up" about stating a policy makes you feel better about not voting for him, go ahead and believe it.
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