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Old 10-16-2008, 06:56 AM   #436
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Just watched the debate. McCain wasn't as bad as I thought based on what I read here. It was probably his best debate. Unfortunately for him that's not saying a whole lot. His problems were less with his stances (I actually think the whole "Joe the Plumber" thing--which by the way, I retract my earlier post. I didn't realize he was a real person --was a legitimate issue. $200,000 may be too low a number to cap the middle class tax cut at. Advantage McCain on this one, I think). His problems were Nixonian. He just looked kind of foolish next to Obama, with his grimaces and smirks and so on. All he was missing was sweat and a five o'clock shadow.

I'm a little over the constant glorifying by the candidates of "the American people." A lot of the problems in our country, yes, including the current financial crisis belong very much in the laps of the much-vaunted American people. I think this distinction between the "evil Wall Street" people and the innocent average American is totally false. A lot of people who work in the financial services industry are just as "ordinary" as some farmer or plumber. Thanks guys, but I don't you need buttering me up with your flattery.
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Old 10-16-2008, 07:53 AM   #437
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Once again, as I noted earlier, McCain lost on douchebaggery.
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Old 10-16-2008, 08:34 AM   #438
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U.S. Democratic presidential nominee Sen. Barack Obama (D-IL) (2nd R) hugs his wife Michelle Obama (R) and Republican presidential nominee Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) (2nd L) greets his wife Cindy McCain (L) as they conclude their presidential debate at Hofstra University in Hempstead, New York, October 15, 2008.

Poor John is almost as goofy-looking in pics as his buddy Dubya.




"Do you see anyone in here who gives a shit about the middle class? Here, let me give you a quarter so you can call someone who does"



Ouch...
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Old 10-16-2008, 08:53 AM   #439
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Originally Posted by maycocksean View Post
$200,000 may be too low a number to cap the middle class tax cut at. Advantage McCain on this one, I think).
It's $250K.

Interestingly CNN had another focus group this morning. The one last night HATED Joe the Plumber. This morning I saw part of it and the family there said that not only did they hate Joe but they absolutely had no empathy for him. That if he was earning $300K per year in this economy, he should shut up and stop complaining given that they've had to declare bankruptcy and lose their home and so did half their neighbours.

I don't know why he would resonate. Do you honestly believe if I got on there and said, listen, I worked HARD - frankly his 10-12 hour days are less than what everyone in my field works, and now I'm making several hundred thousand dollars a year. This is the American dream. I am not voting for Obama because why should I pay more taxes? That's unfair?

Believe me that every single Republican out there would be complaining about greedy lawyers and how out of touch I was.
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Old 10-16-2008, 09:10 AM   #440
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Politico.com is reporting that Joe the Plummer isn't even registered to vote...

Ben Smith's Blog: The Joe file - Politico.com
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Old 10-16-2008, 09:57 AM   #441
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Hmm.. Joe the Plumber..

so basically if he made $50K more and came in at $300K.. his federal taxes will increase 3% or $1500 more if Obama puts the tax rate back to pre Bush cuts. It's .5% more based on his overall earnings of $300K.
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Old 10-16-2008, 10:09 AM   #442
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oh for fuck's sake I'm already sick of hearing about this idiot.

I can never get a plummer when I need one....maybe they're busy counting their $250,000.


and besides: you're making $250,000? Shut the fuck up and be greatful.
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Old 10-16-2008, 10:34 AM   #443
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maycocksean View Post
Just watched the debate. McCain wasn't as bad as I thought based on what I read here. It was probably his best debate. Unfortunately for him that's not saying a whole lot. His problems were less with his stances (I actually think the whole "Joe the Plumber" thing--which by the way, I retract my earlier post. I didn't realize he was a real person --was a legitimate issue. $200,000 may be too low a number to cap the middle class tax cut at. Advantage McCain on this one, I think). His problems were Nixonian. He just looked kind of foolish next to Obama, with his grimaces and smirks and so on. All he was missing was sweat and a five o'clock shadow.

I'm a little over the constant glorifying by the candidates of "the American people." A lot of the problems in our country, yes, including the current financial crisis belong very much in the laps of the much-vaunted American people. I think this distinction between the "evil Wall Street" people and the innocent average American is totally false. A lot of people who work in the financial services industry are just as "ordinary" as some farmer or plumber. Thanks guys, but I don't you need buttering me up with your flattery.
Poll Results
Who do you think won the debate?
John McCain 48% 293,869
Barack Obama 45% 280,138
Neither 7% 42,021

Note on Poll Results
Total Votes: 616,028
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Old 10-16-2008, 11:03 AM   #444
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diamond View Post
Poll Results
Who do you think won the debate?
John McCain 48% 293,869
Barack Obama 45% 280,138
Neither 7% 42,021

Note on Poll Results
Total Votes: 616,028
source ?

John McCain didn't just fail to get the game-changer he needed -- he was trounced in this third and final debate, if the instant post-debate polling provides any indication.

The results over at CBS show Obama to have scored the biggest victory to date: "Fifty-three percent of the uncommitted voters surveyed identified Democratic nominee Barack Obama as the winner of tonight's debate. Twenty-two percent said Republican rival John McCain won. Twenty-four percent saw the debate as a draw."

It is, the site writes, "a clean sweep" for the Illinois Democrat.

Over at CNN, a separate poll of several hundred debate watchers again favored the Democrat by large margins: 58 percent for Obama to McCain's 31 percent. Perhaps more importantly, McCain's favorable rating dropped 51 to 49 while his unfavorable rating increased from 45 percent to 49 percent. Obama ended up with 66 percent favorable rating.

Digging into the details the news is even worse for the Arizona Republican.

Asked who "expressed his views more clearly" 66 percent said Obama, 25 percent said McCain.
"Who spent their time attacking his opponent:" 80 percent said McCain, seven percent said Obama. "Who seemed to be the stronger leader:" 56 percent for Obama, 39 percent for McCain. And who was "more likeable:" 70 percent for Obama to McCain's 22 percent.

CNN also conducted a smaller focus group of 25 undecided likely voters in Ohio, and Obama won that too, 15-10.
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Old 10-16-2008, 11:04 AM   #445
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diamond View Post
Poll Results
Who do you think won the debate?
John McCain 48% 293,869
Barack Obama 45% 280,138
Neither 7% 42,021

Note on Poll Results
Total Votes: 616,028
The most striking result came on the favorability ratings. Although the focus group was officially undecided, it leaned towards McCain. Here were the favorability-unfavorability ratings for each candidate at the start:

McCain: 54 favorable / 34 unfavorable

Obama: 42 favorable / 42 unfavorable

Here's what the ratings looked like after the debate:

McCain: 50 favorable / 48 unfavorable

Obama: 72 favorable / 22 unfavorable

Interestingly, Obama's most popular answer was about education. The focus group seemed particularly pleased about his riff on asking parents to take more responsibility for their children. According to Greenberg, this is likely part of the reason the focus group felt that, overall, Obama shares their values.
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Old 10-16-2008, 11:05 AM   #446
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From newsvine Newsvine - Who won the debate?

14.4%
John McCain
36,041 votes

82%
Barack Obama
205,302 votes


1.8%
Tie
4,451 votes

1.8%
Not sure
4,473 votes
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Old 10-16-2008, 11:11 AM   #447
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diamond View Post
Poll Results
Who do you think won the debate?
John McCain 48% 293,869
Barack Obama 45% 280,138
Neither 7% 42,021

Note on Poll Results
Total Votes: 616,028
Diamond-you're always coming up with these phony poll numbers without a source. Either quote one or don't post.

You might change your name to cubic zirconia.
It's more fitting.
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Old 10-16-2008, 11:18 AM   #448
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American Online is the source.

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Old 10-16-2008, 11:18 AM   #449
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Joe the Plumber interview via CNN:

'Joe the Plumber' happy to help candidates make point - CNN.com
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Old 10-16-2008, 11:22 AM   #450
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Diamond-you're always coming up with these phony poll numbers without a source. Either quote one or don't post.
When you post numbers from right-wing websites, all the republican candidate has to do is show up, and he wins.
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