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Old 04-16-2009, 10:23 PM   #16
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Yeah, no point in reading after that, except for amusement value perhaps.
I think he's talking about the U.N. as leftists who want to control energy consumption. I don't think that's far off considering the U.N. wants to control energy consumption worldwide. Carbon trading would lead to a large transfer of wealth from rich countries to poor ones. You know there would be all kinds of corruption and waste on top of the fact that the science isn't solid yet.
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Old 04-16-2009, 10:33 PM   #17
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It's scary that people buy into this...

Do you think the UN paid Gore to make the movie?

The science is not perfect. Both extremes are nutjobs. If you honestly don't think it's happening you're blind and don't really care for science. If you honestly think there will be Polar bears in your backyard in 5 years then you may want to lay down the pipe.

But if we lay down these crazy conspiracies and stop using extreme fear tactics we might just actually get something done.

I'm sorry Oscar but you're way out of your league here.
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Old 04-17-2009, 09:59 AM   #18
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I'm sorry but my university experience has colored my opinions. I've met socialists who advocated what I'm claiming and even used the defunct hockey stick graph to prove it. It's a religion to me and the science has barely begun. The scientists don't really know what is man-made and what is natural. They need to do their due diligence to convince me and they obviously haven't done that yet. Roy Spencer is doing the due diligence so I'll give him some leeway to show his evidence.

Also Maurice Strong's opinions on world government via environmentalism were quite popular in the '90's (before he got caught with nepotism) and the founder of Greenpeace says as much that the far left entered the environmentalist movement at a higher rate after the Berlin wall fell.

Certainly don't take his word for it. The evidence has to be looked at but much of the scientific community is being bullied or ignored when they bring evidence that doesn't match the IPCC. To me the left is trying to say that socialism is scientific and they are trying to use scientific authority to make the population credulous IMHO.
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Old 04-17-2009, 07:34 PM   #19
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I'm sorry but my university experience has colored my opinions. I've met socialists who advocated what I'm claiming and even used the defunct hockey stick graph to prove it. It's a religion to me and the science has barely begun. The scientists don't really know what is man-made and what is natural.

To me the left is trying to say that socialism is scientific and they are trying to use scientific authority to make the population credulous IMHO.
I'm really sorry you've been brainwashed so...

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They need to do their due diligence to convince me and they obviously haven't done that yet. Roy Spencer is doing the due diligence so I'll give him some leeway to show his evidence.
Really read this statement above. Thousands of scientist have been working on this, many longer than Spenser yet someone who accepts Intelligent Design as science is the one you believe has done the due diligence because it aligns with your wants. So you give this one guy leeway, wonder why? Do you know how science works?
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Old 04-17-2009, 07:56 PM   #20
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I'm really sorry you've been brainwashed so...
Those could be famous last words.

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Really read this statement above. Thousands of scientist have been working on this, many longer than Spenser yet someone who accepts Intelligent Design as science is the one you believe has done the due diligence because it aligns with your wants. So you give this one guy leeway, wonder why? Do you know how science works?
I don't believe in Intelligent Design for the record. Plus that's beside the point as many good scientists have religious convictions because people need to find some self-discipline somewhere. What convinces me is that the IPCC computer models leave out lots of new data. I want to see these models improved before I'm convinced. Spencer isn't the only one and ostracism politics isn't science either. I think Spencer should keep plugging away and studying along with Lindzen and others that study water vapour and oceans. I'm pretty sure you would like to see those updates as well. Humans have an effect but if the effect is much less than the IPCC reports it will have political ramifications on future funding. Conflicts of interest exist in science as well. There are lots of people who have businesses that want to get well with carbon trading. You can also predict investors gambling on those companies and creating another exagerrated boom. I also have economic problems with raising energy costs because we know that's what will result in order to force people to reduce energy consumption. Also I know that there is no auditing framework to oversee if these credits are used as stated. Lots of fraud could occur.
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