10 y/o Boy Refuses to Say Pledge, Causes OUTRAGE!!!!! - Page 6 - U2 Feedback

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Old 11-17-2009, 08:27 PM   #76
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I never say the pledge in school, for reasons that have nothing to do with gay rights. My allegiance lies with humanity as a whole, and then the United States, if the United States is not working against human rights as a whole.
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Old 11-17-2009, 09:29 PM   #77
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Courts exist to protect individual rights but also to uphold the law.

can this be my new signature?
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Old 11-17-2009, 09:53 PM   #78
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rights should be enumerated by the constitution
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rights should be enumerated by the constitution
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rights should be enumerated by the constitution
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rights should be enumerated by the constitution
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rights should be enumerated by the constitution
Years of arguing are over!

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Old 11-17-2009, 10:06 PM   #79
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i'm just happy that he doesn't think that gay = retarded.

like most 10 year olds use those words interchangeably.
And a lot of 15yr olds, 20 yr olds, 25yr olds... well, you get the idea.


My only real issue here is that the child should have been made to apologize for telling the sub to jump off a bridge. Just as it's not OK for her to force him into reciting a pledge that he doesn't agree with, it's not OK for him to disrepect a teacher in that manner - even if he does preface his comments with "...with all due respect..."
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Old 11-17-2009, 10:27 PM   #80
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laws, on the other hand, if not voted on directly should, via legislation, represent the will of the majority
Because we all know from reading our American exceptionalism versions of the history books, the majority has never been wrong.

I have a great investment in a bridge INDY, real cheap, in fact true believers in AE get a discount. But you better act now while supplies last.
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Old 11-17-2009, 10:32 PM   #81
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My only real issue here is that the child should have been made to apologize for telling the sub to jump off a bridge. Just as it's not OK for her to force him into reciting a pledge that he doesn't agree with, it's not OK for him to disrepect a teacher in that manner - even if he does preface his comments with "...with all due respect..."
Did she apologize?

Yes the argument got heated, but he's 10 and knew he was in the right, she raised her voice first, the fact that he prefaced it with "with all due respect" actually makes me think this kid is more calm and collected than most adults I know.

Yes, he should apoligize, after she does, but I have to give the kid kudos, he handed it better than most people I know.
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Old 11-17-2009, 10:39 PM   #82
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My only real issue here is that the child should have been made to apologize for telling the sub to jump off a bridge. Just as it's not OK for her to force him into reciting a pledge that he doesn't agree with, it's not OK for him to disrepect a teacher in that manner - even if he does preface his comments with "...with all due respect..."
As a parent, I've never been of the belief that adults are automatically deserving of respect from children. In this case, the adult in question blatantly disrespected the kid first, so I'd say that "jump off a bridge" is a relatively mild response after the teacher became angry and raised her voice to the kid for exercising his right. I think if anyone in this scenario deserves an apology, it's the kid.

For those doubting that the child could have come to this decision on his own, I don't know how much any of you have been exposed to kids in that age group, but some of them are precocious, and very insightful, more so than some adults.

Other than that, what I got out of this thread is: some schools start at 7 am?? That's nuts.
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Old 11-17-2009, 10:40 PM   #83
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wow. coincidentally, a nine/ten year old also didn't say the pledge when i was in the fourth grade. his friend in class was a jehovah's witness, and either he didn't say it out of respect for his friend or because he was lazy. i didn't know the exact reason because it wasn't a big deal. no one cared. and funnily enough, we had lots of substitute teachers that year due to our teacher's illness. i never remember it being an issue.
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Old 11-17-2009, 10:50 PM   #84
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And you were close to Arkansas, yes?
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Old 11-17-2009, 10:55 PM   #85
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As a parent, I've never been of the belief that adults are automatically deserving of respect from children. In this case, the adult in question blatantly disrespected the kid first, so I'd say that "jump off a bridge" is a relatively mild response after the teacher became angry and raised her voice to the kid for exercising his right. I think if anyone in this scenario deserves an apology, it's the kid.
Oh, I agree that the sub didn't handle the situation properly - I mean, whether she really knew them or not, claiming that the kid's 'mother and grandmother' would 'want him to say the pledge'...WTF?? That shows me just how ridiculous the teacher was being about the issue & I think apologies are due all around. Because my take on the "With all due respect, go jump off a bridge" comment is that it's essentially the primary school version of "Nothing personal, but go fuck yourself." Prefacing it with a nice disclaimer doesn't make it any more appropriate.

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Old 11-17-2009, 10:57 PM   #86
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she didn't deserve his respect by not showing him any. same goes for any teacher who doesn't treat their students with respect. you can't force it. treat them like they aren't scum who should be honoured to just be in the teachers presence and it'll go a long way.
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Old 11-17-2009, 11:03 PM   #87
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And you were close to Arkansas, yes?
lol, actually i lived in florida then.
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Old 11-17-2009, 11:08 PM   #88
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Oh, I agree that the sub didn't handle the situation properly - I mean, whether she really knew them or not, claiming that the kid's 'mother and grandmother' would 'want him to say the pledge'...WTF?? That shows me just how ridiculous the teacher was being about the issue & I think apologies are due all around. Because my take on the "With all due respect, go jump off a bridge" comment is that it's essentially the primary school version of "Nothing personal, but go fuck yourself." Prefacing it with a nice disclaimer doesn't make it any more appropriate.

I get what you're saying. I'm just saying that within my own view of adult - child or teacher - student relations, in weighing the two offenses, the teacher's was much more egregious than the child's, and that the child's response was understandable, in light of the situation. As such, I think that any apology owed should be from the teacher to the child, not the reverse. I know that others may not necessarily hold the same view, though.
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Old 11-17-2009, 11:15 PM   #89
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lol, actually i lived in florida then.
Same thing, though.
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Old 11-18-2009, 12:41 AM   #90
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Years of arguing are over!
You do realize an enumerated right or power means "listed" or "written down" as opposed to a right or power which is "discovered" by judges where none before existed.

I'm all for protecting individual and minority rights from the tyranny of the majority but there is a certain tyranny of the minority when they are allowed to frame their every demand or grievance as a right, rather than a beseechment, thus removing it from democratic debate or vote.
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