Well there's 100W amp in stomp box size, so that's that

[Mack_Again]

So nowadays, people are al about lighter gear and emulation/modeling of classic rigs for convenience. I don't complain, as I use modeling gear (RP360XP from Digitech, which has hit-or-miss amp sims, but Im totally fine with most of effects, they're fantastic) and lots of favorite artists like Edge, Ken Andrews, Steve Vai, St. Vincent, etc uses some sort of modeling (either Axe-Fx or Kemper). I used to think real amps or some classic pedals is just inconvenient.

But, this may change. I encountered this thing online called AMP 1 made by BluGuitar which is basically 100W TUBE amp in pedal size (yeah it's big for a pedal but you know what I'm saying). HUGE difference in size compared to massive Marshall JCM800 heads or some other 100W amps. Even compared to Vox AC30 which is massive. You can see this thing in action in GigRig youtube channel and rig rundown for Jennifer Batten (another great guitarist). What do you guys think? i think this is fantastic, i can see similar things coming to some other classic amp which will be shrunk down to pedal size which nails their tones.


here's the link to GigRig demo video:

 

[Muad'zin]

Personally I think the big tube guitar amplifier is a dying breed.

• Modeling techniques have come a long way since the first Pod was released and they will continue to get better and better. Meanwhile tube technology more or less remains the same.
• There is also the convenience of having access to a multitude of sounds instead of being stuck with one sound.
• When the first modelers cam about our guitarist ears were tuned to those classic tube sounds of the past. Nowadays a new generation has come along to whom modeling no longer is a dirty word, but which their ears have become comfortable with as well, as many of their heroes have been using them.
• Nobody, not even Slayer with their walls of Marshall stacks, needs 100w amps on stage anymore thanks to PA systems. And since your stage sound is no longer an integral part of the overall sound, why not eliminate the middle man and go straight into the mixing desk? Your band mates will be happy as well as the trope of the obnoxiously loud asshole guitar player has been around for a long while and cause of many a heated argument inside bands. Not to mention the object of intense pure hatred from FOH engineers.
• Not having to haul heavy amps around is good for your back and eases logistics. Both on the road and on/off stage.
• Here's one thing I've noticed throughout the years, which I've often said and will say again. 99% of the audience will simply not hear the difference. If they like the music, they won't care about your tone. If they don't like the music it will not be because of your tone, unless it was really, really, awful. And you can do that with a tube amp just as easily.
• Most importantly, who cares what other people say, if it sounds good to you, bedroom, rehearsal and in the overall mix, it's good enough.

 

[Mack_Again]

Yeah, I am pretty confident that this stuck into Torpedo or some sort of cab-sims/impulse loader or whatever will be probably the most convenient option while keeping tubes. These AMP1 kind of thing is multi-channel so there's nothing deficient about options (but these are probably modeled or based off of Marshall heads, so.....yeah, cleans aren't "superb").

I see myself using something like this if this has smaller wattage/more bedroom-friendly. This certainly looks lighter and easy to use. It's got boost and all, which is like must for all expensive amps nowadays.

 

[the tourist]

[*]Nobody, not even Slayer with their walls of Marshall stacks, needs 100w amps on stage anymore thanks to PA systems. And since your stage sound is no longer an integral part of the overall sound, why not eliminate the middle man and go straight into the mixing desk? Your band mates will be happy as well as the trope of the obnoxiously loud asshole guitar player has been around for a long while and cause of many a heated argument inside bands. Not to mention the object of intense pure hatred from FOH engineers.

Unless you want big cleans. Never heard a smaller wattage amp with a small-wattage amp that can be clean at stage volume with a moderate-hitting drummer.

 

[Mack_Again]

I see these miniature high-power amp could be everywhere.. but one downside is the lack of variation; if you have modeler, then you can flip multiple amps and all that which could allow you to have extra choices for tonality.

 

[Muad'zin]

Unless you want big cleans. Never heard a smaller wattage amp with a small-wattage amp that can be clean at stage volume with a moderate-hitting drummer.

Surely a small Fender amp like a Hot Rod can do that trick? I have a 2x10 Fender Vibrolux that can easily do big cleans with such a drummer. And I get dirty looks when I turn it up to 2 already.

But I don't even use that amp anymore. My setup is currently AMT F1 preamp pedal that can go straight into the mixing desk with cab sim if need be, but which can also go into a Marshall 9009 solid state power amp during rehearsal. My cleans sound just fine.

 

[Mack_Again]

I have heard that using real amps in conjunction with something like Torpedo live cab sim sounds great and noiseless; this way the signal can go directly to FOH and still get authentic tube amp sound (if that's something you'll care).

But Muad'zin, you have Axe-Fx, you don't even have to worry about that, i guess. What amp model are you using for Axe-fx?

 

[the tourist]

Surely a small Fender amp like a Hot Rod can do that trick? I have a 2x10 Fender Vibrolux that can easily do big cleans with such a drummer. And I get dirty looks when I turn it up to 2 already.

At 45 lbs and 40 watts, I wouldn't exactly consider that small. LOL!

Best cleans I ever hear are the 40+ wattage amps. Not just because of the wattage, but because of the transformers. Smaller wattage amps just don't have the low end thump in the cleans in my experience. I get the best cleans out of a big-watt amp through a re-amper for cleans to get it to the right volume.

 

[Muad'zin]

I have heard that using real amps in conjunction with something like Torpedo live cab sim sounds great and noiseless; this way the signal can go directly to FOH and still get authentic tube amp sound (if that's something you'll care).

But Muad'zin, you have Axe-Fx, you don't even have to worry about that, i guess. What amp model are you using for Axe-fx?

I'm currently still experimenting with the thing. The number of options are staggering. Thank god for Axe-Edit looking so similar to Line6 Edit. I'm currently basing my sound round the model of the Fender Twin, as that is the sound I know and use.

At 45 lbs and 40 watts, I wouldn't exactly consider that small. LOL!

I suppose not. Although I have to say its quite a surprisingly portable amp. I can easily lift it with one hand and carry it over quite some distance. If I tried doing that with a Twin I'd tear my arm off after just a few steps. It probably helps that it has 2x10" speakers instead of 2x12". Those seem to save a lot of weight.

Best cleans I ever hear are the 40+ wattage amps. Not just because of the wattage, but because of the transformers. Smaller wattage amps just don't have the low end thump in the cleans in my experience. I get the best cleans out of a big-watt amp through a re-amper for cleans to get it to the right volume.

Perhaps. Like I said, I LOVE my old Fender Twin. But I refuse to take it on the road anymore as the sound is just not enough of a trade off against its enormous weight. If I can get there 90% or more along the way using analog or digital modeling that's good enough for me in a rehearsal and/or live setting. Maybe I would break out the Twin in a studio but currently my analog rig is geared towards using that AMT F1 preamp modeler over a Marshall poweramp. It might sound completely different using ye olde trusty Twin. It would take some time to get everything to sound right again using that Twin amp. And studio time is expensive. And I can't do it at home, otherwise I would get visits from angry neighbors with pitch forks and burning torches.

 

[the tourist]

^If I had a Twin, I'd get a head shell made for it and move the chassis over. Then get a lightweight 2x12 or something. Cuts down on the weight just be separating the chassis from the speakers.

 

[Mack_Again]

you know, AMP1 is much lighter than whatever you guys are talking about and it's 100W head! and it's tube driven

 

[the tourist]

you know, AMP1 is much lighter than whatever you guys are talking about and it's 100W head! and it's tube driven

Both preamp and power tube? I don't think it's possible for an all tube 100 watt amp to be that small or light.

Edit: yeah, that's not tube driven. There are zero tubes in it.

 

[Mack_Again]

Both preamp and power tube? I don't think it's possible for an all tube 100 watt amp to be that small or light.

Edit: yeah, that's not tube driven. There are zero tubes in it.

but it says it's got smaller tubes, though.

 

[Mack_Again]

ok I'm sure it's not tube driven in a traditional way.

 

[Muad'zin]

ok I'm sure it's not tube driven in a traditional way.

You say it like that's a bad thing. It doesn't have to be. Where is it written down that the only way to get good sound is by using technology from the 1950's? I would be glad if this thing would deliver good tone without tubes. They're unreliable little buggers, tubes. They wear out, can break down even from bedroom use. Let alone from hauling them around on the road. It's almost 2016, lets have a little less tubes are the alpha and the omega, and a lot more let's explore what modern technology has to offer us.

 

[Mack_Again]

I think I am watching too many of SpectreSoundStudio video, sorry (that AMP1 has smaller tubes, apparently, which actually lasts longer lifespan so you dot have to worry about replacing).

 

[Mack_Again]

Le Lead | Two Notes Audio Engineering

oh well this tube-preamp in pedal size gets crazier every day.

 

[Muad'zin]

A lot less crazy then still hauling huge ass heavy amps around in addition to your pedal board. We're getting better preamp and cabsim technology every year. Too bad it usually still costs as much as a high end tube amp. If the price can be brought down to something like $200-300 we would probably see a lot more widespread adoption. Now its more for those who can really afford it. Or those tone hounds who are willing to starve to death in order to pay for this kind of gear. Which is ironic because those people tend to favor real tube amps more then pedal preamps and cabsims.

 

[Mack_Again]

I get that this could be most amazing things; I think it's getting crazier every day because there are tons of those "preamps" and I think at this pt, it's so flooded with those boutique amps. and the fact that most are still pretty bulky for pedalboard doesn't help this trend too much, I think. but certainly real tube amp on a pedalboard type of idea is very attractive.

 

[Muad'zin]

You can probably get smaller preamp pedals, the AMT ones are pretty small. But then we're no longer in tube territory but solid state. Also, not all preamp pedals are created equal. Some, maybe even most, just emulate the sound of certain well known amps, and are basically just overdrives/distortion pedals coming to that sound from a different angle then your average opamp/transistor dirt box. For a true preamp you need something that can put out at line signal levels.

 

[Mack_Again]

Haven't Edge used solid state amps (Randall) in 90s? I actually liked that crunch/overdriven sound.

BTW, is it really true that lots of famous amps like Silver Jubilee (Marshall) has distortion pedal-esque components to produce extra distortion? like all the gain are not produced purely by tubes?

 

[Muad'zin]

I've come across people who said and wrote that any Marshall built and designed after the JCM-800 series did use some other means to increase gain other then tubes, most likely diodes. Or in the case of the Kerry King signature amp through the use of a built in MXR equalizer as a booster. Which I suspect is logical. There's only so much gain you can squeeze out of tubes and guitarists have been using booster/overdrive/preamp pedals to squeeze their tube amps into more gain since like forever. It only stands to reason that amp builders would include some of those tricks as standard on board for those guitarists who desire high gain amps. But I'll also say that I'm no real expert on how amps works or are designed. So I will defer to the judgment of the real experts.

I'll say this though, most guitarists prefer and want to have real tube amps. Gotta have that tube sound! And what do they do when they finally have one? They stick pedals in front of it with transistors and opamps in them. Brian May, Ritchie Blackmore and Tony Iommi use trebleboosters (thus transistors) that are always on in their sound, pushing their amps into more gain, and their tones are highly sought after classics. Any commercial pedal basically uses a buffered bypass system so there's always some transistor or opamp influencing that tube sound even in bypass. Even the high and mighty Klon that tone purists fight over uses an opamp buffer. Which guitarists love! So does it matter if tube amps get some of their gain not from tubes? In many ways that ship sailed so long ago it made it to the other side of the ocean and its crew is having fun with hookers.

 

[Mack_Again]

yeah I remember Kerry himself said that his sig. head had MXR EQ circuit built in, which is actually pretty good idea; it's kinda like all of those fancier Mesa Amps. not that I can afford Mesa but I sometimes wish I can EQ amps beyond those 3 knobs.

I'll say this though, most guitarists prefer and want to have real tube amps. Gotta have that tube sound! And what do they do when they finally have one? They stick pedals in front of it with transistors and opamps in them.

that's why I think "passive pups are better than active ones" type of argument is stupid as most of those people have Tube Screamer or booster always engaged to "shape the tone", which is very similar to what active circuits do in active pups.

I brought up that amps with diode thing as companies making those mini pre-amps often emphasize that they have tubes in them, which...........seems kinda pointless in a way.

 

[the tourist]

I've heard that point of view before about putting pedals in front of tube amps. I mean, it's obviously true that pedals aren't all tube. But I would like to take a moment to say there is a ridiculous amount of true bypass pedals available. And also, if you're going to call out pedals as not being tube, let's also call out guitar electronics and cables for not being tube-based.

I'm not saying tube is better for everyone. I'm saying at this point, I like tube amps better than solid state or digital sounds. And I have a Kemper now. Which I love. But it doesn't have quite the same feel, so I'm going to probably use it as a preamp in the future with a tube power amp. Something about the way tubes sag, compress, etc. I haven't heard in digital.

That being said, I do not play high gain. I play fairly clean with low to medium gain most of the time. I think solid state is probably the way to go for high gain.

 

[Muad'zin]

It is true that many pedals are true bypass, quite a good thing in my opinion. But unless you plug straight into an amp or only have one or two pedals you should still get a buffered pedal in there somewhere, as all those cables, both patch cables and internal wiring, do add capacitance to your signal, and thus cause some degradation. You can't avoid using at least one cable, if only to plug straight into an amp, so that will always be your base sound, but the more things you use, even passively and completely true bypass, it does influence your sound. And like I said, some effects are left on by many guitarists on all the time.

Have you tried testing the Kemper against a tube amp in a blind A/B test? In my experience, and pretty much most cases, when you know which is which confirmation bias almost always tends to favor what you think is best. The real surprises always come in the blind tests.

yeah I remember Kerry himself said that his sig. head had MXR EQ circuit built in, which is actually pretty good idea; it's kinda like all of those fancier Mesa Amps. not that I can afford Mesa but I sometimes wish I can EQ amps beyond those 3 knobs.

Personally the ideal EQ for an amp for me would be a parametric EQ like the ones you have on good mixing desks. Bass, low mid, high mid and treble with tunable frequencies. Then again there is something to be said about that simple 3 knob EQ, as sometimes the less knobs, the better.

that's why I think "passive pups are better than active ones" type of argument is stupid as most of those people have Tube Screamer or booster always engaged to "shape the tone", which is very similar to what active circuits do in active pups.

I've never used active pickups before. I'd like to try them though in one of my future builds. Like those EMG's in Gilmour's Red Strat.

I brought up that amps with diode thing as companies making those mini pre-amps often emphasize that they have tubes in them, which...........seems kinda pointless in a way.

Tubes! Tubes! TUBES! You gotta understand the magic and marketing value of those words. 90% of our decisions are made emotionally so to those who think tubes are the ne plus ultra in guitar tone its not only a great selling point, it's a MUST HAVE selling point. And to those who don't care, as long as it sounds good they'll be on board too.

 

[Mack_Again]

I joined this Facebook group put together by guys at Wampler pedals (basically thegearpage on Facebook, kinda) and they told me that YouTube blind tests for amps/amp-sims are useless and the difference will be significant if I were to play them in person,so there must be some differences in real amps and amp sims.....right? or should I not believe in middle aged men who are proud owners of Fender Super Reverb or any other amps I can't afford?

I don't think I can really talk about the love of good tube sound as I think tone of Beat It solo is amazing (that solo was apparently recorded with cheap preamp that Quincy Jones had in the studio), Edge's Randall crunch sound from 90s was his best overdriven amp tone, and finally, the guitars from Boston albums are amazing (Rockman amps are, i think, tube/solid state hybrid).


active pups have their places but not in conservative guitarists' guitars. Nevertheless, I get that many EMGs have very boring sound because of limited dynamic ranges. thats why I still can't like Zakk Wylde's sound in general. but again, Tom Morello sounds amazing with those EMGs and I love James Hetfield's rhythm guitar so I guess it's dependent on the taste of players and contexts.

 

[the tourist]

Have you tried testing the Kemper against a tube amp in a blind A/B test? In my experience, and pretty much most cases, when you know which is which confirmation bias almost always tends to favor what you think is best. The real surprises always come in the blind tests.

I can't actually. I just got it last week and have the non-powered version. Waiting for Fryette to release their mkII Power Station. In the meantime I've been running it through headphones and the aux input of a stereo. I will say this: I bought some profiles from The Amp Factory which sound way better than the stock profiles. I'll probably pick up some more of those and start also picking up the Michael Britt packs as well.