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Old 04-19-2016, 07:10 AM   #301
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I tried to like Big Muffs and derivatives thereof. Haven't found a single one I get along with.
I know the feeling. I didn't like it at first either. I got a Buildyourownclone kit, built it and thought this is what everybody is raving about? Color me underwhelmed. Then years later I got the current kit with the mids selector switch, thinking there had to be something about it if everybody was raving about it, I was still underimpressed. But the mids switch does help though. Without a mids knob or switch most Muffs tend to disappear into a band mix, and there's nothing more frustrating as not being able to hear yourself, making you throw that pedal away in disgust.

Then I discovered Kitrae's Big Muff website, with the dozens of different Muff schematic and it became a sort of OCD thing to build them all. And see which one I would like. There's also a metric shit ton of vero Muff layouts on tagboardeffects which made it even more easy. Plus you can add the Skreddy mids switch to basically any Muff. And just flicking that switch from standard scooped to flat is enough to suddenly punch through the mix. Now I got 2 Muffs standard on my board and I couldn't gig without them, there's one on my keyboard too and I got dozens of the buggers at home. Personally the best ones in my opinion are the Violet Ramshead versions, the Civil War, the Green Russian if you're a bass player and basically any Muff made by Skreddy pedals. If you had to get only one, get a Skreddy P19. Or a Mojohand Iron Bell. Which is a P19 clone anyway with a mids knob instead of a mids switch.
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Old 04-19-2016, 10:52 AM   #302
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Wren and Cuff make some great copies of the various Big Muff pedals/

Tri Pie '70 — Wren and Cuff

Caprid — Wren and Cuff

Eye See Pi — Wren and Cuff

Tall Font Russian — Wren and Cuff


I don't think that Edge used the Big Muff on a lot of things. "Bullet..." comes to mind. Perhaps a few others. But I don't think it was a key/irreplaceable part of his set-up.
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Old 04-20-2016, 01:14 AM   #303
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I remember EQD had modified called Cloven Hoof which had some additional control for frequencies so that it's gonna sit nicely in the mix (also it had more gain, I think). it sounded pretty nice.
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Old 04-20-2016, 06:53 AM   #304
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We shouldn't dismiss the current Deluxe Muff from EHX though, which can be set to emulate several of the classics, + mids control + noise gate + expression pedal input.
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Old 04-20-2016, 07:06 PM   #305
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I looked up and it's pretty classic sounding, I love it. EHX has tons of pedals that I really really want that bugs me so much.
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Old 04-25-2016, 10:57 PM   #306
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well whoever thinks Edge's gear is complicated should watch the rig of Vernon Reid. I still haven't figured out fully why he needs this config for Living Colour.
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Old 04-26-2016, 05:49 AM   #307
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Why does anyone really need some of the things he or she vehemently claims they need? Some of it is actual need, and some of it is purely psychological. Vernon's rig looks like my old Judas' Wolf rig, like he accumulated and built it himself over time. Maybe if he would let Bob Bradshaw work its magic it wouldn't look so anarchic and get streamlined. But he probably likes it this way. It helps if you have roadies and guitar techs to do the heavy lifting and hooking up for you. If however you have to do the all lifting and hooking up yourself each time then suddenly an Axe-FX straight into the mixing desk starts looking very appealing after a while.

I love it that sometimes his stuff doesn't quite do what its supposed to do, or that he hits the wrong expression pedal. That's so recognizable when you play with so much stuff.
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Old 04-26-2016, 03:28 PM   #308
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Why does anyone really need some of the things he or she vehemently claims they need? Some of it is actual need, and some of it is purely psychological. Vernon's rig looks like my old Judas' Wolf rig, like he accumulated and built it himself over time. Maybe if he would let Bob Bradshaw work its magic it wouldn't look so anarchic and get streamlined. But he probably likes it this way. It helps if you have roadies and guitar techs to do the heavy lifting and hooking up for you. If however you have to do the all lifting and hooking up yourself each time then suddenly an Axe-FX straight into the mixing desk starts looking very appealing after a while.

I love it that sometimes his stuff doesn't quite do what its supposed to do, or that he hits the wrong expression pedal. That's so recognizable when you play with so much stuff.
yeah I remember you had multi pedalboard rig a while back.... I really want to build up my board so that it'll sound decent but it's just my hobby so I guess i kinda need to restrain myself about that.


I know Vernon's rig is split into 4 (meaning that signal is split int 4 separate signals and then they have different destination, though some signals will end up going thru Duo Rec). that way, I get that each signal will be shorter and at least the signal loss can be manageable. Also, now there are tons of guitar synth that doesn't need special piezo pups so I guess that his rig is kinda there because he's been using it in the past? 'cause his rig rundown from 3 years ago is basically equally complex without Supro and all kinds of new rigs (like H9, Boss synth pedal and Mel9). I remember Edge's rig kept expanding until 360 tour with extra gear got after Elevation tour as well. Obviously he shrunk his rig down so much after getting Axe-fx but that's another story, i guess. Obviously Dallas is getting old, so Edge needs to think about his health/workload, I'm sure. These days, I see tons of artists who are known to have huge rig like Steve Vai and Jennifer Batten are downsizing the rig a lot, probably because it's way too troublesome for anyone to carry fridge-size rack rig and 2 amp heads.
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Old 04-26-2016, 04:31 PM   #309
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yeah I remember you had multi pedalboard rig a while back.... I really want to build up my board so that it'll sound decent but it's just my hobby so I guess i kinda need to restrain myself about that.


I know Vernon's rig is split into 4 (meaning that signal is split int 4 separate signals and then they have different destination, though some signals will end up going thru Duo Rec). that way, I get that each signal will be shorter and at least the signal loss can be manageable. Also, now there are tons of guitar synth that doesn't need special piezo pups so I guess that his rig is kinda there because he's been using it in the past? 'cause his rig rundown from 3 years ago is basically equally complex without Supro and all kinds of new rigs (like H9, Boss synth pedal and Mel9). I remember Edge's rig kept expanding until 360 tour with extra gear got after Elevation tour as well. Obviously he shrunk his rig down so much after getting Axe-fx but that's another story, i guess. Obviously Dallas is getting old, so Edge needs to think about his health/workload, I'm sure. These days, I see tons of artists who are known to have huge rig like Steve Vai and Jennifer Batten are downsizing the rig a lot, probably because it's way too troublesome for anyone to carry fridge-size rack rig and 2 amp heads.
Don't forget that shipping gear costs money and not every musician has their own means of intercontinental transportation, like private aircraft and fleets of trucks. When you have to use commercial transportation on a tight budget (as most artists are, including Steve Vai) to ship to different continents a small compact but reliable rig starts looking way more important then true analog bliss.

And let us never forget that 99.9% of any audience just doesn't care one bit about your guitar tone. You go to any show and listen to the audience post show if they talk about the guitarist's tone. At all! Chances are nobody will say anything. It just doesn't matter one damn bit if you play through a Dumble amp using SRV's own personal tube screamer or some cheap ass Line 6 amp. What matters is if the songs were good, if the singer was good, if the energy was good and if the band put on a good show. That's what matters. That's ALL that matters. All that stuff about tone, its just in our head. Something we pursue to our own personal benefit.

So yeah, Steve Vai and Jennifer Batten shrinking down their rigs to the Axe FX makes perfect sense. Both from a tone perspective and from a logistical POV.
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Old 04-26-2016, 09:45 PM   #310
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Right, audience doesn't care about the tone or anything gear-related necessarily. probably professionals like Edge are the only people who really care about the tone because that's who they are. But...i really can't tell the precise detail of the sound at the concert, that's really true (these days, every time I go to local shows, I really look at musicians' gear and sometimes they use fantastic guitar/pedals like drive pedals from Bogner or PRS guitars. But most of them sound like ass). That's why I still can't really see the value of super-expensive gear like Dumble (unless you owned it before that amp got crazy expensive) as I have heard that some of them (especially Steel String Singer, the one SRV used) are basically Fender clone with some tweak.

But probably because I got sucked into this tone debate that's generally lingering online, I really notice people's sound and how good/bad they are. I personally don't like Vernon Reid's sound as it sounds so processed and digital from time to time. Not that it's always bad but still, not the best sounding thing to me. but I am aware that tone chasing is sometimes toxic 'cause it can inhibit experimenting; probably some people assume that using that many pedals will make your guitar sound terrible and don't try using them as much, which is a shame as to me, pedals/effects are really inspiring.

yeah, handling and ease of use really are the thing everybody care these days; every time I see rig rundown, many people talk about the fact that their pedal board fits in the suitcase or carry-on baggage as luggages will be handled terribly (United lost one of my luggages when I went to US once). I have also heard that Edge's effect rack has wooden rails for the drawers so that they don't move too much when it's handled. well I don't know why I get all the miscellaneous details about Edge's gear and not the actual, crucial info about it like pedals he's using or anything about his guitars.
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Old 05-01-2016, 07:25 AM   #311
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For most gigs you have to keep in mind the following. There's either no PA system, a shitty PA system or a decent PA system. In the first case your live sound will depend on both room acoustics and how well your guitar tone can cut through a band mix. Which means that your favorite guitar tone may not cut through a band mix. Especially on its own. In the case of the other two that also applies but first and foremost it depends on how well the sound engineer knows his or her craft. Do they know how to use their system to their full potential? Do they know how to handle it at all? I know a guy who mixes sound from the stage right next to the band. As a result the sound in the venue sounds like utter shit as he's never there to hear it. You gotta move around as a sound engineer to hear what the audience will hear.

Do they know how to handle microphones? Where you place a microphone in front of a speaker will be of infinitely greater importance to how your guitar amp will sound in the mix then whatever Fender/Marshall/Mesa or Dumble tone stack it has that you use to EQ its sound. Correct microphone placement is an art form and any guitarist will do well to experiment with it in a recording environment. Thankfully with digital modeling units like the Line6 or AxeFX you already can. Try it and you'll be amazed.

As a band the times that you will come across a venue that has a good PA system, a good sound engineer who knows his gear and who knows how to handle mics will be few and far between. Savor it when you will because that is probably the only time that your super duper awesome gear will be able to get its super duper awesome guitar tone across. Most of the time you'll just be lucky to get your guitar heard in a mix. No matter how shitty it will sound.

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yeah, handling and ease of use really are the thing everybody care these days; every time I see rig rundown, many people talk about the fact that their pedal board fits in the suitcase or carry-on baggage as luggages will be handled terribly (United lost one of my luggages when I went to US once). I have also heard that Edge's effect rack has wooden rails for the drawers so that they don't move too much when it's handled. well I don't know why I get all the miscellaneous details about Edge's gear and not the actual, crucial info about it like pedals he's using or anything about his guitars.
Actually I find those details way more interesting. You do know the famous military saying, right? Amateurs study tactics, professionals study logistics. How a guitar rig functions as a whole, is integrated, is portable and can keep on going no matter what is way more interesting then the individual pedals that are on it.
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Old 05-01-2016, 08:37 AM   #312
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about PA/acoustic, 360 tour was bit a disaster; in some directions, the bass was pretty distorted (luckily, when I was there, it sounded fine). I know they really wanted to make it sound like the Claw is emitting the sound to the audience evenly but...i doubt that that actually happened. at least those freaking stadiums aren't made for concerts, I can tell. But as U2 has Joe who's been with them for more than 20 years or so, I find most of live mix of U2 shows bette than most bands'. especially compared to those big festival shows where probably audio engineers are pretty hammered (i know they're mostly not but that's how it sounds like, sometimes).

I really need to learn about mic placement and all kinds of stuff that's related to recording. I know my multi eff. allows me to plug straight into my laptop and record but I haven't bought the proper cable for it as I'm pretty lazy. well...that's not a good news. But I discover some aspect of mic'ing with garageband. probably it's not the best emulation but it's pretty good. at least I get to see ribbon mic responds to bass freq. well compared to dynamic mic and that kind of stuff. I know the mic preamp and all that will change the tone additionally but I don't know the details about that. don't ask me.

Probably I wonder about specific pedals of Edge's rig because of this general boredom coming from lack of U2-related news. look at SOE thread, it's getting pretty stagnant.
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Old 05-01-2016, 08:39 AM   #313
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and sorry that I'm the one who is making this conversation less and less about Edge.
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Old 05-02-2016, 05:46 AM   #314
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Be sorry for keeping a conversation going? Be glad, otherwise this forum would be dead as a dodo.

About festivals, having worked at a few I can say that the big difference between a festival and a venue concert is that at the latter the sound engineers get their time to do proper soundchecks. The only unknown variable they have to solve is the venue. And with the big shows like U2 they travel with their own gear, which helps too. Whereas on festivals everything is done on the fly. Band come and go, often when other bands are playing. They might be late (which considerably adds to the stress). The changeover time between bands is usually the only time they have to both build up the band's gear and do a line check, meaning they only check to see if instruments work and are at the correct input volume. As opposed to a soundcheck where a band or their roadies play a few songs so everything is as it should be. This usually means that the first songs of the set are basically also the soundcheck.

As for the techs and staff being hammered, on a professionally run festival if they catch you being hammered it's usually means you're fired and never work in that town again. Only once the audience has gone home, everything is either packed in, or secured for the night and all the other jobs finished are they allowed to have some beers. Of course on small, less professionally run festivals things are probably more relaxed. Still, you cannot run a yearly festival for long and constantly have people pissed. They would never last beyond the first year or two.

It's hard work work, as tech or stage hand you're the first on the job and probably the last to leave. You have to eat on the fly, usually in the lul between one band playing and the other band already arrived and prepping their gear backstage. It's hard work, long hours and the pay, if there is any, is minimal. Why people do it? Gotta be the love for music. If you have the chance to do so, catch it. If you survive it you will find it addictive.
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Old 05-02-2016, 06:04 AM   #315
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Probably the "bad mix on the festival show" thing comes from me listening to the footages from Lolla in South America (one time i was watching Soundgarden performance on Youtube from that venue and i couldn't hear the bass and lead guitar, which is shame because I like Kim's playing). in that case, I really can't agree with mixing choice of theirs. But mixing in acoustically terrible venue must be tough so I guess i can't really blame them. I mean, even in super professional environment, people make bad mixing decisions. Like Metallica's Justice. or any Rick Rubin records.

yeah some parts of this forum are pretty dead. But you can go to Radiohead discussion thread , they're going nuts over completely whited out website of theirs and various SNS pages (Twitter, Facebook, etc). Compared to that....U2 is very news-less, which really irritates tons of people including me. I really wanted to know how someone as anal about the sound as Edge uses Axe-Fx but last tour didn't generate any gear-related news and now they're apparently vacating so......i guess that's that.
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