Bullet The Blue Sky effects (Studio/Zoo TV)

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gareth brown

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Hey, I could have sworn there was a thread for this before but I can't seem to find it. :scratch:

Does anyone know what pedals The Edge was using on both the studio and Zoo TV versions of Bullet? Particularly the overdrives/distortions.
 
Have no info though I'd love to know. Especially what he's stomping on just as he enters his solo on the Sydney DVD. He goes from overdriven to distorted/wah - but what's that distortion?
 
also around that point people weren't that much of tone nuts and there weren't as many distortion pedals available, i assume. i don't think there was like, trillions of Big Muff variant then.
 
also around that point people weren't that much of tone nuts and there weren't as many distortion pedals available, i assume. i don't think there was like, trillions of Big Muff variant then.

People were still tone nuts. But you're right - there wasn't as much of a market as there is now.
 
i wasn't alive in the 90s but were people then that nutty about the tone that they have some lengthy arguments about Muff variants? like "dude Op-amp one is better than this garbage Civil War ones" or something like that
 
i wasn't alive in the 90s but were people then that nutty about the tone that they have some lengthy arguments about Muff variants? like "dude Op-amp one is better than this garbage Civil War ones" or something like that

Yes. But in person, since online wasn't much of a thing.
 
I reckon guitarists were always tone nuts, just what people desired as desirable tone differed from era to era. From the 60's to 80's the quest seems to have been for more and more gain. First with primitive fuzzes, pushing amps with trebleboosters, then better fuzzes, overdrives, distortions and preamps, culminating in the era of the rack preamps and poweramps. Then came the 90's and new guitarists who had grown up on the experiments of previous generations, who wanted more gain, now thought that those experiments were desirable in their own right. And henceforth it became all about vintage tones. But the obsession was always there.

As for the Muff, while there may not have been that many boutique Muff versions at that time, most of the many EHX versions we now know where already around at the time of Zoo TV. If memory serves me correct there's like 17 different versions of the Triangle era Muff, 15 of the Ramshead era, 6 of the V3 (I think Edge had a V3), V4 and V5 are IC Muffs and maybe 3 of the final V6 before EHX went bankrupt in the 80's. Compared to that time the later Russian and NYC Muffs are remarkably consistent in their components and sound.

In the 80's and probably early 90's you could probably get a used Muff of what we now call the gold eras (Triangle and Ramshead) fairly cheap, as most guitarists weren't interested in them. Especially the IC Muffs had very little love. Until they appeared all over the Smashing Pumpkin albums.

Yes. But in person, since online wasn't much of a thing.

Don't forget magazines. And fanzines. I reckon you'd find the same kinds of discussions and arguments about U2 we have today in the fanzines, only slower, as people had to actually send in letters.

But didn't the internet basically start for the masses around this time? Especially with newsgroups? After all, Zoo TV was all about new multimedia and information overload.
 
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right i forgot that in the 80s, these players brought out studio-grade rack mount effects instead of smaller pedals; i mean, at least in the late 80s Boss digital delay pedals existed, Boss chorus pedals existed, and I'm sure there must've been smattering of modulation and distortion pedals available then. but instead these people went for rack mount pre-amps and digital effects.


Big Muff Users and Their Pedal Boards

this website says that Edge is using V5/6 which is probably a last version or one with op-amp. i never heard of op-amp version of it but thinking of component, it should sound closer to distortion pedal rather than fuzz, correct?
 
Well, when you record in a professional studio and get to play with a professional rack chorus, which gave these lush wide dimensional stereo effects, it kinda sucks to go back to a Boss analog chorus. We now think those sound lurvy in their own right, but we also now think digital is a curse word. As with delays, if you wanted a delay that you could dial in to the millisecond, with modulation, a Boss DD-2 or an analog delay isn't going to cut it either. As I said, in those days guitarists didn't want vintage tone, they already had that. They wanted more gain, more controllable delay time, wide spacious chorus. Only racks could give them that. The quest for tone was always around, only the goals were different. Personally I find their quest more interesting and better then today's quest.

As for the Muff, if Kitrae says Edge uses a V5/V6 I must bow to his authority. I never could see that tone bypass switch so I thought it was a V3, maybe a V4. The tone bypass switch could explain that huge BtBS sound. As when you bypass the Muff's tonestack you don't get its associated volume drop. Nor the midscoop. So it will sound huge. And somewhat less then a Muff. The op-amp version sounds somewhat different, at the time most people didn't like it, but as I said the Smashing Pumpkins changed that perception. Which leads me to theorize that there are no good guitar tones, only famous tones. And that if you or I ever became famous guitarists, our tones would become desirable too, no matter how we obtained it. Even you with your tiny Digitech thingy.

The Muff being a distortion or a fuzz, that's a very old debate. Circuit wise its a fuzz, but not one of those simple two or three transistor fuzzes that comprise only a handful of parts, it's got a lot more components, and also very unique among fuzzes a tone knob. Unlike most fuzzes the sound is not determined much, if at all, by the choice in transistors. With a Fuzz Face it stands or falls with picking the right transistors. In a Muff almost any transistor will do, as long as you keep the pinout in mind. It's the other components that can make the sound. It also differs from most fuzzes in that it doesn't mind if you place it behind a buffer. So it kinda works like a fuzz, kinda sounds like one too, but it also kinda sounds like a distortion. And like a distortion it has a shitload of gain.
 
right, right, the quality of the sound was very different; i mean, even some revered analog chorus pedal doesn't bring the width; i didn't realize it until you said it and watch some reviews of old chorus/flanger. digital delays' fidelity wasn't really good for the compact pedals back then.

actually lots of numbskull reviewers online say "Muff sounds more like a distortion." i know it's a fuzz pedal but it has that bass-heavy tone with aggressive top end that's somewhat characteristic of older distortion pedals.

I am not too knowledgable about the Muff versions; I'm still excited for Russian Muff clone made by EHX tho
 
All this talk of different muffs and fuzzes makes me so glad that I'm totally happy with the Helix. I'm 6 months GAS-free now. The amount of money I've saved in that time is staggering. :lol:
 
do those multi effects have models for bunch of different Muffs? my Digitech only has a model for more modern NY Muff which is fine, but i personally like Russian sound more
 
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The Axe only has a single Muff model. Some say its a Triangle, others a NYC Muff. On my Line6 Pod HD500 Line6 said they modeled their Muff model after a Triangle. Neither of them sounds as good as my Violet Ram clones.

I reckon that with the staggering amounts of flavors to chose from, Fractal and Line6 decided there was no way to please anyone anyway, so they decided to stick with one model. And let the users customize that, as unlike the average Muff you get a lot more tone controls. Treble, bass, mids, parametric EQ, to name a few. But I know on the Axe forum there is a demand for more Muff models. It's just that they can't seem to agree on which. Although the bass players can probably agree on the Green Russian.

All this talk of different muffs and fuzzes makes me so glad that I'm totally happy with the Helix. I'm 6 months GAS-free now. The amount of money I've saved in that time is staggering. :lol:

Good for you! I experienced the same thing myself. Unfortunately most of those savings go into guitar building instead.
 
right, i mean guys at Fractal may have thought that stacking and tweaking the stock Muff would probably allow people to emulate their favorite Muff; i personally like the sound of green ones more than the others but it might be because I'm using a strat; the mid on my guitar is a bit weak so i would like some mid boost. The unfortunate thing is that my Digitech unit doesn't specify which Muff it's based on but i assume it's based on modern versions which is kinda harsh sounding and mid scooped

well I recently got very interested in modular synths so i might be playing completely different instrument or at least start blowing my money on these Euroracks.
 
Good for you! I experienced the same thing myself. Unfortunately most of those savings go into guitar building instead.

My savings went into my recording set up. MacBook Pro with the big screen, 1TB SSD, 16gb RAM, fastest available processor, UAD Apollo Twin Quad (and a bunch of plugins). And now with all of that, I've been addicted to playing Skyrim over the last two months when I'm not playing live with people. Go figure!
 
I hear tons of good things about Apollo Twin Quad, including the quality of amp sims in the plugin. do you actually use amp sim in the unit or you use Helix for that, tourist?
 
I hear tons of good things about Apollo Twin Quad, including the quality of amp sims in the plugin. do you actually use amp sim in the unit or you use Helix for that, tourist?

I've used the unison amp sims for bass. Otherwise it's all Helix. I use the compressors and tape sims a lot.
 
My savings went into my recording set up. MacBook Pro with the big screen, 1TB SSD, 16gb RAM, fastest available processor, UAD Apollo Twin Quad (and a bunch of plugins). And now with all of that, I've been addicted to playing Skyrim over the last two months when I'm not playing live with people. Go figure!
That's awesome! Do you have a physical amp you still use/mic up to record with?
I play through a 212 Blues deVille and just can't imagine turning my back on it, even if I do splash out on a setup like Tourist's
 
That's awesome! Do you have a physical amp you still use/mic up to record with?
I play through a 212 Blues deVille and just can't imagine turning my back on it, even if I do splash out on a setup like Tourist's

I have a 3rd Power Extra Chimey for when I play out. And I run my Helix into it. For recording, I don't have the capacity to play loud. But the Helix sounds really, ridiculously good. I got rid of my 5-Strymon (plus more!) board and don't feel like I'm losing anything.
 
The UAD Apollo Twin Quad? Mother of Chrome! :drool::drool::drool:

Since getting the computer and the Apollo Twin Quad, I have not run low on DSP at all. And I haven't done a thing to consolidate tracks (e.g. making submixes and putting all the plugs there instead of on individual tracks). My last MacBook and Apogee Duet 2iOS strugggggggled with less tracks.

The only downside is my recording setup is less portable now, since the Apollo is necessary to run UAD plugs and needs to be powered from the wall (unfortunately it can't be powered by USB... yet).
 
do you guys know free/affordable plugins for amp sims? the GarageBand amp sim kinda sucks and my multi effect doesn't do the best job either.
 
do you guys know free/affordable plugins for amp sims? the GarageBand amp sim kinda sucks and my multi effect doesn't do the best job either.

GarageBand's isn't bad. You're just not used to hearing amps that you play through via headphones. It's like the sound of a mic'd amp that's in a soundproof room. It doesn't sound like amp-in-the-room. You just gotta get used to that or you'll drive yourself crazy if you're trying to play at low/silent volume.
 
Also, the million dollar question: how are you listening to your own music? Headphones? PC speaker set? FRFR studio speakers? Gotta have the last ones.

I agree about getting used to impulse response cab sims. They will never sound like playing through your own amp, as sound coming from a guitar cab changes with distance, position of the player and room acoustics. Its basically a cone of sound that comes from your cab, which also reverberates against the room. And guitarists, and bass players too for that matter, often forget, that what sounds good on the sweet spot where they are standing, may sound like getting hit with ice picks a few meters further to their fellow band members. Or like getting hit in the nuts with a low hammer in the case of a bass player. This is what often causes volume wars and bitter arguments within bands. Even causing breakups. It's also why chasing that amp in the room feel sound is so futile in the case of modelers. Whoever made the impulse response just cannot compensate and correct for the acoustics of the room of whoever will end up using it. And why should they, as most people are chasing after famous guitar tones of of famous recordings. Which are almost always close miked up guitar cabs. Just look at pics of Edge's amps. In some cases the mics are even stuck into the speaker cloth. That close.

My dream is off a silent rehearsal. I've gotten this 16 channel X-18 Behringer mixer and my dream is that every one goes into the mixer, and then gets his or hers individual mix back over their headphones. And then there will be no more volume wars. And if somebody thinks some bandmember is too loud, they can just adjust their own mix. And since the X-18 can also function as a recording interface we could record and mix our rehearsals.
 
My dream is off a silent rehearsal. I've gotten this 16 channel X-18 Behringer mixer and my dream is that every one goes into the mixer, and then gets his or hers individual mix back over their headphones. And then there will be no more volume wars. And if somebody thinks some bandmember is too loud, they can just adjust their own mix. And since the X-18 can also function as a recording interface we could record and mix our rehearsals.

That's so Rock n Roll :wink:
 
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