U2's downfall...

[U2girl]

U2's downfall ? U2 fans.

Sure All that... was an uplifting on the whole but the themes are hardly shiny happy poppy songs, despite the arrangements and production. (as Bono says though, no one listens to the lyrics)
Bomb, on the other hand, is probably the first real Death album they made.

 

[rihannsu]

Ah... most of the time if an artist is going to pursue a less artistic, more pop-ish sound, they're going to do it because it sells well... After the commercial disaster (although creative success) of Pop/PopMart, though, I guess I can't blame them.

Ok, so you are making an assumption not stating a fact.

Dana

 

[LemonMelon]

Bono has said in interviews that it is about counteracting the negative influence of society on self image, about beautiful young people who don't see their own beauty because it doesn't conform to the accepted image which leads to eating disorders and such.

"I want everything you've got and nothing that you're not."

Dana

GAF has the setting right, but you're right about the main themes.

 

[Nate Dogg]

Fuck the lyrics...it's all about drums.

 

[LemonMelon]

Fuck the lyrics...it's all about drums.

Then we're still screwed.

 

[rihannsu]

To me, that is reason #1 why ATYCLB is in the bottom 2 albums for me. Yes, all the songs are inspired by dark events (suicide, loss of faith, losing someone, house arrest, etc.) but they are presented in a way that says "Let's be completely optimistic about all this". They are too Cheery and Heartwarming for me. I love U2's darker material so much more. Achtung Baby had this atmosphere of saying "heartbreak really does suck; it's not a beautiful day and it's not going to be for a very long time." POP had it more-so than others with the desperation of begging for God to intervene because the singer is so down on the world and life. All of U2's music has something uplifting about it though; I think that's why so many people listen to them. It's just that ATYCLB seemed to take it to the limit in that aspect. I love the darker more ironic U2. Hopefully we'll get a little more of that this time around.

And yet as bitter and dark as One is it has become the ultimate inspirational sing-a-long. I think the boys felt they had spent enough time wallowing in their angst in the 90's and they needed the positivity themselves as they looked forward into the new millenium. Staying in that same mode of darkness from AB on would have been stagnating and spiraling downward would have been self destructive. What makes these albums truly inspirational for me is that they acknowledge how fucked up the world is at the same time as they lift you up and send you soaring. It is by no means a view through rose coloured glasses but a realistic look at the shit we all have to face in living life, but at the same time a celebration of all that is worthwhile about life and people. Most "inspirational songs" are actually pretty much in denial about anything negative instead focusing only on the positive. Perfect example of this is the total cheesyness of the songwriting contest entries for American Idol.

Dana

 

[phillyfan26]

Personally, I just think ATYCLB lacked interesting songs for the most part. Some weak lyrics, some weak vocals, some weak drums, some weak bass, and even sometimes weak guitar. Just weak overall.

HTDAAB was an improvement, but only a little bit.

 

[lazarus]

Bono has said in interviews that it is about counteracting the negative influence of society on self image, about beautiful young people who don't see their own beauty because it doesn't conform to the accepted image which leads to eating disorders and such.

"I want everything you've got and nothing that you're not."

Dana

But it's not about society. He's addressing one person, or taken further, young women in general. Are you actually looking at the lyrics, or googling for quotes to support your position? "Counteracting the negative influence" equals....positivity?

The delivery of the vocal is pretty joyful to me, punctuated by the (arguably obnoxious) "do do, do do, do do" part, and Bono's exclamation of "you don't have to be shy about it--NO!" on one of the choruses. This is about as happy as it gets. It's a song of empowerment, whatever conditions have led to its writing.

 

[rihannsu]

Agreed with you 100%, Laz.

A positive, joyous sound to the music is not inherently a problem. I feel that many of U2's melodies this decade have been incredibly enjoyable, as memorable as anything in their career. Bono has been the weak point, often lacking the abstract, poetic skill he once wielded. Plus, his voice was worthless from 1997 to about 2005. Now he has that back, but it remains to be seen if we'll be able to figure out precisely what his lyrics are about after one listen or thirty.

Bono may be lacking the abstract poetism but that is, according to him, the point. He stated that he wanted to be more direct and less poetic. To just stand up and say it outright. So it was not necessarily a lack of skill but a change of writing style. Being direct is not automaticallly less worthy than being poetic. If you prefer poetic that's your right but it's not fair to criticize someone for not being poetic when that's not what they were going for in the first place.

Dana

 

[LemonMelon]

Bono may be lacking the abstract poetism but that is, according to him, the point. He stated that he wanted to be more direct and less poetic. To just stand up and say it outright. So it was not necessarily a lack of skill but a change of writing style. Being direct is not automaticallly less worthy than being poetic. If you prefer poetic that's your right but it's not fair to criticize someone for not being poetic when that's not what they were going for in the first place.

Dana

Quote? No offense to you personally, I believe you, but that's something I like to have in front of me.

 

[JOFO]

I know we've only heard faint, distorted, low fidelity 30 second and 60 second clips recorded on a phone 100 yeards away from the source, and who's to say any of those make the final cut and it what form, but....
if that's what we're getting, it sure doesn't sound like dark and sexy to me.

I hope I'm wrong and all of you who are going to disagree with me are right.

 

[rihannsu]

But it's not about society. He's addressing one person, or taken further, young women in general. Are you actually looking at the lyrics, or googling for quotes to support your position? "Counteracting the negative influence" equals....positivity?

The delivery of the vocal is pretty joyful to me, punctuated by the (arguably obnoxious) "do do, do do, do do" part, and Bono's exclamation of "you don't have to be shy about it--NO!" on one of the choruses. This is about as happy as it gets. It's a song of empowerment, whatever conditions have led to its writing.

I didn't say the songs didn't have a positive impact or weren't uplifting. What I was argueing against is the idea that the songs had nothing angsty or dark in them at all. For me the description "shiney happy people" implies totally sugary positivity. I don't see these songs that way at all. Yes, they are ultimately inspirational but their power comes from the recognition and acknowledgement of the negative. To me that is why ATYCLB meant so much to people after 9/11. Precisely because of the acknowledgement of the darkness in the world. I didn't say these albums sounded as dark as AB but that they did deal with pain, death, and loss. The other comment was that U2 needed to be more personal, but in all actuality these two are U2's most personal albums yet.

Dana

 

[rihannsu]

Quote? No offense to you personally, I believe you, but that's something I like to have in front of me.

I'll try to look for one. I seem to remember several references he made to this during the promo interviews for the Elevation tour.

Dana

 

[Michael Griffiths]

Bono may be lacking the abstract poetism but that is, according to him, the point. He stated that he wanted to be more direct and less poetic. To just stand up and say it outright. So it was not necessarily a lack of skill but a change of writing style. Being direct is not automaticallly less worthy than being poetic. If you prefer poetic that's your right but it's not fair to criticize someone for not being poetic when that's not what they were going for in the first place.

Dana

Yes, I remember Bono saying the exact same thing during the writing of ATYCLB. He said he wanted to be precise and direct in his writing. Adam Clayton also verified this in another interview (believe it was in Rolling Stone). I don't remember where these interviews were from, and I don't have access to them since I don't know where they were from, but I do remember exactly what you are saying here being expressed on more than one occasion. Later Bono also alluded that his direct writing style was a reflection of where he was spiritually. Precision and direct writing comes from understanding yourself spiritually (to paraphrase) was his main point. This was in reference to ATYCLB.

 

[rihannsu]

Quote? No offense to you personally, I believe you, but that's something I like to have in front of me.

I'll keep looking but here's one from Edge:

"We did consciously make a band record with simple, clear arrangements and direct melodies and lyrics, the essence of this group," the Edge says. "But the approaches are unconventional, and we drew from the experience of Achtung and Zooropa and even Pop. It's not in any way a roots record. Having explored abstract arrangements and song forms on a few records, it was the right moment to concentrate on what sets us apart."

from this article: U2 Strikes Again | U2 news article from @U2

Dana

Edit: Here's another one that kind of lays out what they were aiming for. Yes they wanted uplifting but again it was not in denial of the darkness of life but rather a weapon against it. Given this description of what they wanted from this album I think they did a damn good job of it. While it may not have been what some of the fans wanted they succeeded at what they aimed for.

 

[LemonMelon]

I'll keep looking but here's one from Edge:

"We did consciously make a band record with simple, clear arrangements and direct melodies and lyrics, the essence of this group," the Edge says. "But the approaches are unconventional, and we drew from the experience of Achtung and Zooropa and even Pop. It's not in any way a roots record. Having explored abstract arrangements and song forms on a few records, it was the right moment to concentrate on what sets us apart."

from this article: U2 Strikes Again | U2 news article from @U2

Dana

Interesting. I wonder if they still feel this is the way to go? I suppose we'll find out in a few months.

 

[lazarus]

That's fine, and I'm not trying to put Bono in a box. More power to him if he wanted to be more direct on the last two albums. For some material it was effective, on others, not as much.

What's clear to me (and others here, apparently), is that Bono's work is enhanced when he writes with a bit more subtlety. Not every song has to be as abstract as Lemon, or as "poetic" as WGRYWH, but I would like to see something a bit more nuanced and measured this time around.

 

[Michael Griffiths]

And just to add, during the making and subsequent release of ATYCLB, Bono on numerous occasions said that the time was right to make an album that said things with loud and bold colours, with no misunderstandings. He said it was at the beginning of a new century and millenium, and it felt like if it were the last album, that would be okay, as it was time to leave it all on the table in the most literal way possible....to say whatever had to be said. It wasn't the time for poetry and ambiguity according to Bono. It had to be direct and precise, and written in common language. He wanted the whole world to be able to understand it.

 

[Rich79]

Perhaps we're reading into it a little too much. Songwriting isn't supposed to be as cut and dry as "Here's what this is about". It should be up to the listener to interpret it as they choose. For me, ATYCLB is trying to be too uplifting; while POP is beautifully dark and haunting. This may not be the case for everyone as the music can be interpreted many different ways on many different levels.

 

[rihannsu]

Another quote about the directness from Adam this time:

Everyone's using words like "direct" and "connecting" and "tunes." High-falutin' concepts such as consumerism-as-religion and the death of God are, for the moment at least, placed on the back burner in favour of things much closer to home.

"Bono's lyrics this time," ponders Adam Clayton, "in a sense they're less poetic, less romantic and more real. To me they're much more about where he's coming from and what he's dealing with. I think this record has a great tenderness. And I'm sure it addresses the way he feels about the commitment to the band and to his family, to his children and Ali."

From this article: The Elastic Bono Band (Part 1) | U2 news article from @U2

The quote is in part two.

Dana

 

[digitize]

Really, the only lyrical masterpiece we've gotten this century has been City of Blinding Lights (well, and Mercy, to an extent, but it needs fixing). But that's not the entire point. City works as a uplifting track, just as Streets did, partially because it is lyrically deep.

However, usually the issue is not thematic, but presentational.

For instance, let's take Love and Peace. It's an okay song. But it's about the same subject as Sunday Bloody Sunday, Bullet the Blue Sky, and Please. It is not nearly as good as those three.

Sunday Bloody Sunday is filled with raw emotion and a lot of anger on Bono's part. It is an amazing song; one of the early era's best. The music fits it perfectly... the drumming and the guitar perfectly complement Bono's angst.

Bullet is a more violent, anti-Reagan song. Listen any live version of it up to 1997 (after that, they just played it, dropping the attitude, because it was McG's favorite) and you'll hear the raw passion in Bono's voice. Edge's guitar solo goes along perfectly with it; it is Bluesy and American, showing what the song is about, and showing their anger at the American government at the time.

Please is, for me, probably the best of these songs. It is absolutely haunting. Like One, the guitar in it seems to almost cry. A true masterpiece.

LAPOE: Bono bangs on drums and screams "WE NEED LOVE AND PEACE!" a lot. Catchy melody, nothing deep, absolutely no emotion whatsoever coming out of any band member.

 

[LemonMelon]

For instance, let's take Love and Peace. It's an okay song. But it's about the same subject as Sunday Bloody Sunday, Bullet the Blue Sky, and Please.

What?

 

[digitize]

What?

In general, the songs are about similar subjects, or a least have similar points.

 

[rihannsu]

LAPOE: Bono bangs on drums and screams "WE NEED LOVE AND PEACE!" a lot. Catchy melody, nothing deep, absolutely no emotion whatsoever coming out of any band member.

Well since you mention Bono banging on drums you must be talking about the live performance and not the studio recording so I am absolutely mystified that you can see absolutely no emotion whatsoever from anyone. There is as much rage in that performance as there was in the Sunday Bloody Sunday performance on Rattle and Hum. Can you really truly not see that at all?

Dana

 

[Salome]

Perhaps we're reading into it a little too much. Songwriting isn't supposed to be as cut and dry as "Here's what this is about". It should be up to the listener to interpret it as they choose.

says who?
really
I don't see why it can't be both

For me, ATYCLB is trying to be too uplifting; while POP is beautifully dark and haunting. This may not be the case for everyone as the music can be interpreted many different ways on many different levels.

for me POP is painfully poor in parts which makes it nearly impossible for me to enjoy the brilliance presented in other songs

ATYCLB is the U2 album I find myself going back to most often
to me it's brilliant

I doubt my opinion matters much in the end
I also doubt your opinion will cause "U2's downfall"

 

[digitize]

Well since you mention Bono banging on drums you must be talking about the live performance and not the studio recording so I am absolutely mystified that you can see absolutely no emotion whatsoever from anyone. There is as much rage in that performance as there was in the Sunday Bloody Sunday performance on Rattle and Hum. Can you really truly not see that at all?

Dana

Nope.

 

[LemonMelon]

Until U2 releases an album as bad as St. Anger, and follows that up with a film showing themselves as whining crybabies with touchy-feely psychiatrists and personal latte holders, any "downfall" U2 may have is based entirely on subjective opinion.

 

[Salome]

I think Love & Peace ... is a far more ironic song than any of the others you mentioned
to be quite honest, I don't see how you can compare them

 

[rihannsu]

Nope.

Can you see the emotion on any of the songs on Bomb?


Dana

 

[digitize]

Can you see the emotion on any of the songs on Bomb?


Dana

City of Blinding Lights, a bit, although I just love that song in general. I actually see some in Vertigo. I see a decent bit in Yahweh. Also, SYCMIOYO, but it's really only good live.

But emotion =/= depth.