Wide Awake n AZ
The Fly
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well...I was talking about the live in Boston version. But what if I think the remix is the greatest fucking thing ever?
U2, The Joshua Tree/SOE, fear and failure
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The friendliest place on the web for anyone that follows U2.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
lazarus
Blue Crack Supplier
Then you go on a special "list". 
Fair enough, though. The live version is great. I just find the stark atmosphere of the studio version to fit the song's thematic crisis perfectly. It wouldn't really work live.
Fair enough, though. The live version is great. I just find the stark atmosphere of the studio version to fit the song's thematic crisis perfectly. It wouldn't really work live.
lazarus
Blue Crack Supplier
One that is shared by many.
BigMacPhisto
Rock n' Roll Doggie VIP PASS
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But "most"? Because I think it perfectly captured the live version in a studio setting and was the best thing to come out of The Best Of 1990-2000. The other new mixes were all a clear step backwards, but that's an undeniable improvement in my opinion.
The_acrobat
Rock n' Roll Doggie VIP PASS
U2 could've released the best album ever in 1997 and it would've gone pretty much the same way. The point is the public was sick of U2 by that point. They had enjoyed pretty much constant praise and success since 1983 (even RAH was very successful, at least the album was). U2 were a little too bright and shiny to be successful as rock artists in the extremely cynical post-grunge / alt rock world.
Gone, SATS and IGWSHA should've been big hits.
Gone, SATS and IGWSHA should've been big hits.
The_acrobat
Rock n' Roll Doggie VIP PASS
Also, add me to the list who loves the live version of Gone, but thinks the (new mix) version fails to capture that magic, or any magic.
They're really doing themselves a huge disservice by not playing that song live. At least have it in rotation.
They're really doing themselves a huge disservice by not playing that song live. At least have it in rotation.
BigMacPhisto
Rock n' Roll Doggie VIP PASS
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Yeah, it's one of the killer tracks in their arsenal and they just leave it sitting on the sidelines for some reason. The crowd would really fucking dig it.
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
I disagree, the album itself(minus a few glaring exceptions) was not the issue.
I think the Discotheque video is what killed them in the states. The US wasn't ready for dancing, handlebar mustache, oversized hat, not taking themselves serious at all U2. They were a cartoon, we didn't want cartoon u2.
lazarus
Blue Crack Supplier
Well I thought the video was hilarious but yes, it's likely what torpedoed that album's chances before it even came out.
The song itself as well as the video didn't help. I like Discotheque, don't get me wrong there, but the whole release gave the wrong impression.
I maintain that Gone (yes, laz's beloved old mix) would've been the right choice. Possibly LNOE, but that's maybe a bit too conventional. U2 had just had big success with HMTMKMKM. Another rocker would've started promotion well, and the wailing jumbo jet guitar perhaps just enough of a surprise to get people curious about a new direction.
Then go Discotheque or Mofo second and SATS third. It's the Achtung logic: Fly first, MW a quick second, then One.
I maintain that Gone (yes, laz's beloved old mix) would've been the right choice. Possibly LNOE, but that's maybe a bit too conventional. U2 had just had big success with HMTMKMKM. Another rocker would've started promotion well, and the wailing jumbo jet guitar perhaps just enough of a surprise to get people curious about a new direction.
Then go Discotheque or Mofo second and SATS third. It's the Achtung logic: Fly first, MW a quick second, then One.
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
lazarus
Blue Crack Supplier
I've long maintained that LNOE would have been the best choice. Gone may be the best track on the album, but it's not catchy enough. LNOE may sound conventional compared to the rest of the album, but it still sounds very modern and has a clubby groove thanks to the rhythm section.
They would have needed a better video, though.
They would have needed a better video, though.
david
ONE love, blood, life
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
Hewson
Blue Crack Supplier
Not enough canaries in that LNOE video.
womanfish
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
Absolutely agree. The album would have been HUGE if they had made a few different decisions. The first single could have been LNOE, DYFL or Gone or even SATS, and if they had done a cool, but not cheezy video of them as the village people it would have taken off.
The KMart announcement, was just dumb. And Obviously the whole ABC POP situation where they gave a lackluster performance just was hit number three against them.
People were in no way tired of U2 in 97, they had a long enough break from the last album, Hold Me.... was a big hit, and I remember the buzz on rock/alternative radio at the time was high for the song and album.
When you have unfounded rumors of a dance album, and then your first single is a song called discotheque, featuring a video of the band in a mirror ball space ship dressed as the village people? Yea... shit's not gonna work out too well for you
The only chance they had was with Gone.
The only chance they had was with Gone.
Hollow Island
New Yorker
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there was also still a prejudice against disco at the time. It was still considered lesser, not authentic..and U2 had a song with disco in the title, so obvs it was stupid and bad. And they dressed as the Village People, who were disco and gay, and associations with homosexuality were still taboo then. F** was still commonly used as an insult, Friends had gay jokes in like every episode...If U2 released Pop now and didn't change a thing about it it would go down a lot better. They were ahead of their time in sound, presentation and subject matter.
Y2K
Refugee
I don't know that I would go as far as to say homophobia was a contributing factor to Pop's failure.
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
womanfish
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
I think U2 has problems when they don't release a first single that is representative of the album as a whole. BD was perfect for ATYCLB, Vertigo fit really well for HTDAAB,
Then you have Boots that sunk NLOTH and Miracle that didn't represent SOI. And Discotheque didn't let the listener know there was a much deeper album in play. Gone really would have been perfect.
Then you have Boots that sunk NLOTH and Miracle that didn't represent SOI. And Discotheque didn't let the listener know there was a much deeper album in play. Gone really would have been perfect.
trevgreg
Rock n' Roll Doggie
In the pre-internet days, did the video get that much attention? I know the single did okay and that the video probably would've been used as clips for promotion and interviews and such,. But I do wonder if the video might've played that big a role in expectations for the album (not arguing for or against, btw, just asking).
I didn't have cable in the day and wasn't a fan by that point, but I do recall watching the ABC special with my sister at the time. One of the few, I would later find out!
womanfish
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
In the pre-internet days, did the video get that much attention? I know the single did okay and that the video probably would've been used as clips for promotion and interviews and such,. But I do wonder if the video might've played that big a role in expectations for the album (not arguing for or against, btw, just asking).
I didn't have cable in the day and wasn't a fan by that point, but I do recall watching the ABC special with my sister at the time. One of the few, I would later find out!
Oh yeah. It was all over MTV. Videos still played a big role at that time.
Hollow Island
New Yorker
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homophobia played a role in Pop's "failure" in America inasmuch as it was perceived as a disco album and disco was considered gay music. Gays liked disco, real men liked rock music. It's no coincidence that Pop did better in the rest of the world where there wasn't as much of a stigma against dance music. the disco image ensured that they wouldn't be taken seriously.
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
They weren't taken seriously, because they weren't serious. It had nothing to do with disco or homophobia. They could have dressed like kiss instead of the village people and the result would have been the same.
They were ironic and playful during ZooTV but they were still cool and often serious. Many weren't ready for cartoon U2.
Hewson
Blue Crack Supplier
Hollow Island
New Yorker
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yeah, you're right about people not being ready for cartoon U2. funny how they liked when U2 were actual cartoons!
They were being playful and ironic during Zoo TV but it was in a way that could be overlooked if one wanted to: Bono was the leather clad rockstar (but it's a joke)...but he was playing the stereotypical male rock pig. They weren't playing with deeply uncool imagery. And the stigma against disco was largely based upon who was listening to it. I don't think it's a huge thing and it really just occurred to me, but I think that it goes a small way to explaining why the Pop era went down better outside of America.
U2FanPeter
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
Watch Bono around 15:30-16:00 talk about POP.
Yes, Bono said "fuck 'em" on live Canadian TV aired on prime time on the west coast.
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