still a trilogy theory

[Salome]

you could make as much of a case for a 2-1, 2-1 etc theory as for the trilogy theory
which might be saying something

 

[revolver]

I'm not sure if I agree. Firstly I think the radicalism of NLOTH has been underestimated, secondly I think that of AB has been over-estimated so they meet in the middle. Yes clearly AB was a radical departure, and a brilliant one may I add, but WGTRYWH, UVLMY, One and even UTEOTW update and refresh existing sounds. Zooropa was the real curveball I think. You will remember also how Zoo Tv also started out fairly cautiously in indoor arenas, gainnig more and more confidence and ambition as it went on. So I think AB was radical but its chief importance was to make possible even more radical works in the future.

That last sentence is a good and hopeful theory, and only the next album will tell.

However, compared to other bands out there - Animal Collective, for example, or Kid A-era Radiohead - there is nothing radical about NLOTH. With NLOTH U2 is merely sprucing up songs they'd almost written for the last two albums. The middle three songs could have been on the last album; Magnificent is a better, dancier version of Miracle Drug; White As Snow could have been on the last album instead of One Step Closer. Breathe would definitely fit on the last album, and is essentially a chaotic rock version of Original of the Species, occupying the same spot on the album with a huge hopeful chorus. They've written better songs with more adventurous arrangements, but still nowhere close to what I'd consider radical.

 

[revolver]

I can already hear people calling me nuts about Breathe = Original of the Species, so I'll respond directly in advance and say that I simply meant they fill the same hole on the album.

Another thing I think that makes me think of Breathe as a product of this decade is the stupid crunchy guitar. And another uniting factor between Bomb and Line is that Bono has developed this habit of falling over himself on the final choruses in a fit of breathless passion rather than going for perfection. On Breathe with his "Walk out!" and on the last chorus of Crazy Tonight with an overemphasized "Hiiiiill"; its just like on Original of the Species last chorus. I'd rather he aimed for perfection. Regardless of taste, I think its another small but uniting factor that connects NLOTH and HTDAAB. I don't recall him really ever doing this before, and on NLOTH I don't think it works as well as he was aiming for.

 

[tomtom]

What prevent this album from being a wholesale departure are Breathe, Crazy Tonight, and Stand Up (I for one really enjoy GOYB). At least for me. And correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't all 3 produced by Lillywhite? I absolutely hate his work. I still think HTDAAB with Eno/Lanois and better lyrics would have been one of their greatest albums ever. Lillywhite (at least now) has ZERO artistic nous; his only criterion for worthiness is how instantly catchy a song seems to be. And he seems to have zero appreciation for texture or layers. Damn him.

 

[Salome]

:stretch:

smilies

 

[tomtom]

I can already hear people calling me nuts about Breathe = Original of the Species, so I'll respond directly in advance and say that I simply meant they fill the same hole on the album.

Another thing I think that makes me think of Breathe as a product of this decade is the stupid crunchy guitar. And another uniting factor between Bomb and Line is that Bono has developed this habit of falling over himself on the final choruses in a fit of breathless passion rather than going for perfection. On Breathe with his "Walk out!" and on the last chorus of Crazy Tonight with an overemphasized "Hiiiiill"; its just like on Original of the Species last chorus. I'd rather he aimed for perfection. Regardless of taste, I think its another small but uniting factor that connects NLOTH and HTDAAB. I don't recall him really ever doing this before, and on NLOTH I don't think it works as well as he was aiming for.

Jesus, you took the words right out of my mouth. That's the first thing I thought of when I heard Breathe, that it's a functional OOTS, right down to Bono's singing. And both songs are totally out of place in the running order and interrupt the narrative and sonic arc of the album to me. In true Lillywhite style, Breathe also has instant catchy appeal and no interesting textures/layers. It's a big, dumb, catchy rock song, and little more. And yeah, Bono still hasn't gotten out of the HTDAAB habit of thinking that louder and more overblown = better.

 

[revolver]

I enjoy Get On Your Boots as well. Its the layered and modern production. More like that instead of Crazy and Stand Up (even though I think both are fine songs) and I'd be totally on board.

 

[tomtom]

I enjoy Get On Your Boots as well. Its the layered and modern production. More like that instead of Crazy and Stand Up (even though I think both are fine songs) and I'd be totally on board.

This.

GOYB to me is a clever pop song, and it has a pretty sly and subtle melody. It's not the instant ear candy of Bomb songs and the 2 that surround it on NLOTH, and for that reason, I haven't tired of it on repeated listenings. It also fits pretty well where it is, relieving the listener from the somewhat dirgy nature of NLOTH, MOS, and UC (don't get me wrong, I'm liking all of 'em more with each listen).

My personal tracklist has Crazy Tonight, Stand Up, and Breathe unceremoniously dumped. Hopefully Winter will be awesome and I will work it into the running order.

Interestingly, I was surprised that I really enjoyed Breathe live. The energy and playing come across well. But on the album it's horribly out of place.

 

[Utoo]

I used to believe in the trilogy theory, but it's really crap. It's like reading a horoscope and finding the reasons that it applies to you.

Every single album has clues to the next album. There is no radical, "out of the blue" departure---even from R&H to AB. The big clues to AB were God Part II and the entire Lovetown tour. The rock got harder; the only thing that was different was the addition of various effects and a vocoder. People erroneously think that there was a big jump between JT and AB because they forget about R&H and Lovetown. Looking back, the biggest jump is probably War to UF, but even that had some foreshadowing. NYD, to me, is closer to Pride than it is most songs on Boy or October. Surrender and 40 are just an Eno treatment away from fitting on UF. ATYCLB is foreshadowed by IGWSHA, perhaps even WUDM, IYWTVD, and maybe even Playboy Mansion & Miami in terms of lyrical style (think: New York).

There are no massive jumps that come without warning. The issue is that the warning goes unrecognized until the next album is made.

 

[Moser]

3rd on ab zoo and pop are a true trilogy

Ummm....POP is in a trilogy of its own.
Still waiting for the other two....

/thread

 

[Niceman]

I used to believe in the trilogy theory, but it's really crap. It's like reading a horoscope and finding the reasons that it applies to you.

Every single album has clues to the next album. There is no radical, "out of the blue" departure---even from R&H to AB. The big clues to AB were God Part II and the entire Lovetown tour. The rock got harder; the only thing that was different was the addition of various effects and a vocoder. People erroneously think that there was a big jump between JT and AB because they forget about R&H and Lovetown. Looking back, the biggest jump is probably War to UF, but even that had some foreshadowing. NYD, to me, is closer to Pride than it is most songs on Boy or October. Surrender and 40 are just an Eno treatment away from fitting on UF. ATYCLB is foreshadowed by IGWSHA, perhaps even WUDM, IYWTVD, and maybe even Playboy Mansion & Miami in terms of lyrical style (think: New York).

There are no massive jumps that come without warning. The issue is that the warning goes unrecognized until the next album is made.

I don't think you're anywhere near right.

 

[Utoo]

I don't think you're anywhere near right.

Haha, so much for being "nice!"

I'm not saying that every aspect of various songs are clear indicators of songs on the next album. It's not the message of IGWSHA or WUDM that are present on ATYCLB. Rather, it's a hint of the mood, musically and emotionally (think: WILATW). God Part II wouldn't have fit perfectly on Achtung, but it's sure as hell a better fit there than it is with anything at all on Unforgettable Fire. Surrender or 40 have more in common with UF to me than they have anything in commmon with Boy.

 

[allbecauseofu2]

listen, nothing will ever be like AB. as far as departure and reinvention. Getting yourself lost in the world of both u2's trilogys in the 1980's, and how they presented them self, and then you hear the opening of zoo station, your world gets turned upside. AB is what made bono "BONO". The atomsphere of AB and the tour and everything in that early 90's period still drives me crazy.(in the good way) Zooropa and pop explored that path.

nothing will be like the first trilogy. because it was thier first album and etc. They didn't know what they doing quite yet. And by the time war came out, they had at least somewhat fiqured it out. what to do and what not to do.

then again ,they will never again (i assume but it would be cool) reach the commercal heights of joshua tree. And that does factor into how each era is viewed. I mean they were eveywhere. I guess this is thier "prime"? because in theory they should have flopped or broken up and gone on the surreal life after the 1980's? witch happens to alot of bands that try to be successful after a decade ends or thier inital fame fades. I could have seen someone saying that in 1989 when the movie was panned and the critics believed u2 had overstepped thier boundrys.

 

[Niceman]

Haha, so much for being "nice!"

Sorry if that didn't come across the way I meant it... No voice tone on the internet!

Let's just say; I completely disagree! If The Fly isn't a slap in the face, even after God Part II, then I can't imagine what would be.

 

[Utoo]

Sorry if that didn't come across the way I meant it... No voice tone on the internet!

Let's just say; I completely disagree! If The Fly isn't a slap in the face, even after God Part II, then I can't imagine what would be.

No worries.

Sure, I totally agree that The Fly is a slap in the face....but aspects of TTTYAATW aren't lightyears away from Rattle & Hum.

 

[what a bomb!]

After HTDAAB I honestly thought U2 were coming to the end of their shelf life in the sense of creating a album that would blow people away, and on this album (for me) they have done it, this is the album I have been waiting for since AB and for me personally its AB2 for me 21st century style.

ATYCLB and HTDAAB has been gathering a lot of dust on my shelves...can tell you now NLOTH will be the soundtrack of my life as much as JT and AB still are won't be no dust gathering on it for a long time to come!

 

[Niceman]

No worries.

Sure, I totally agree that The Fly is a slap in the face....but aspects of TTTYAATW aren't lightyears away from Rattle & Hum.

Yeah, not light years. But TTTYATW would have been the strangest song on R&H. I still remember when I got home with my CD in 1991 and played Achtung for the first time. I was in total shock the whole time, even after hearing The Fly for months. It was an incredible and drastic sonic change for me. yes, War-UF was a big change, but this was Sooooo different. And I think that 2000 was also a huge sonic change, even if in many ways it was an attempt to back up the bus 12 years or so. HTDAAB was a big step forward IMO, but still the same world. And now I see the U2 of 2009 as essentially a different band than they were in 2004. Can I see connections between songs on HTDAAB and even earlier ones on the new album? Of course! I think he even refers to them in the lyrics! But for the most part, I think this is a dramatic right turn.

 

[last unicorn]

I don't get this whole obsession with "trilogies" and comparisons and putting everything into some category, I don't need that, NLOTH is an album on its own, I don't go around comparing every song to another song U2 may have recorded previously, I embrace all their work, it's all connected in some way or the other, and NLOTH is, like every new album, a departure and a new thing. All this looking back into the past is tiring. For me, NLOTH is the first step into the future.

 

[allbecauseofu2]

cause its fun? lol

 

[ShipOfFools]

I think this album is closer in sound to The Joshua Tree/Achtung Baby/Zooropa era than the ATYCLB/Bomb era.

 

[HansaTonImbiss]

1st one agree
2nd one eh
3rd on Ab Zoo and Pop are a true trilogy

It's not that any of these theories are entirely unfeasible. It's just that I don't think this album is in anyway reminiscent of the same textural layers and (IMO) overproduction of the last two. This has a much more developed, complete feel in my mind, and holds just as many reminders of AB, Passengers, and UF as it does of HTDAAB and ATYCLB. And I inherently think UF is actually an Irish album. The only thing American about it is "MLK"/"Pride" and the fact Bono was inspired by the "Unforgettable Fire" exhibit at Chicago MOMA.

In that case, the mention of 7/11 on "Stay", "Fly the Friendly Skies" on the title track, and the appearance of Johnny Cash (an American musical legend) makes "Zooropa" "American" too, right?

 

[allbecauseofu2]

this is kinda out of left field, but some of the subtle sounds , like on COL, or the quite guitar parts remind me of the enternal sunshine of the spotless mind soundtrack. the warped guitar loops over delicate yet erie soundscapes.

 

[intedomine]

The trilogy idea holds weight, however I've never looked at it strictly from a musical view. I think it's more about the band's image and attitude towards performing and recording. Indeed, it's more about Adam, Bono, Edge and Larry as people or U2 as a band of brothers more so than a musical thing.

The band obviously never intends a trilogy, but for the sake of grouping things together and defining U2 eras, the trilogy idea works quite well.

The most significant shifts in what U2 is or who U2 are happen between War and UF, R&H and AB & POP and ATYCLB. I don't think that is questionable. You can attribute the change to all sorts of things, and not just the music. It can be the lyrics, the scale of the live show, the physical appearance of the band members, their approach to marketing the album, the change in the dynamics of their commercial appeal.

I haven't heard NLOTH yet, but the vibe I get is one that is line with completing the trilogy, as abstract as the idea might be.

 

[Niceman]

The trilogy idea holds weight, however I've never looked at it strictly from a musical view. I think it's more about the band's image and attitude towards performing and recording. Indeed, it's more about Adam, Bono, Edge and Larry as people or U2 as a band of brothers more so than a musical thing.

The band obviously never intends a trilogy, but for the sake of grouping things together and defining U2 eras, the trilogy idea works quite well.

The most significant shifts in what U2 is or who U2 are happen between War and UF, R&H and AB & POP and ATYCLB. I don't think that is questionable. You can attribute the change to all sorts of things, and not just the music. It can be the lyrics, the scale of the live show, the physical appearance of the band members, their approach to marketing the album, the change in the dynamics of their commercial appeal.

I haven't heard NLOTH yet, but the vibe I get is one that is line with completing the trilogy, as abstract as the idea might be.

Wait until you hear it. It's part one of a new era, not the end of the last one.

 

[icebergy]

Wait until you hear it. It's part one of a new era, not the end of the last one.

and thank god for that

 

[shart1780]

Boots, mag and fez all have trance elements. The theory is bullshit.

Just because a song has a few electronic sounds doesn't mean it has "trance elements".

The trilogy idea makes sense to me

Boy, October, War - somewhat brash, punky rock.

UF, JT, R&H - more expansive, mature stadium rock.

AB, Zooropa, Pop - use of electronics with a bit of an industrial sound. Albums are full of social commentary with ironic lyrics. Band takes themselves less seriously.

ATYCLB, HTDAAB, NLOTH - A more stripped back sound (except a few songs on NLOTH). Songs deal more with ideas of faith, love, forgiveness, singing your heart out, grace, soul, knees, kneeling and all of that amazing stuff.

 

[vaz02]

Just because a song has a few electronic sounds doesn't mean it has "trance elements".

All the songs have electronic elements.

 

[Vlad n U 2]

I hope the start of a new "trilogy" will lead us somewhere special.

 

[Tripoli]

i personally put war and tuf together

 

[Salome]

i personally put war and tuf together

you could make a case for that thematically