Steve Lillywhite On U2's 'No Line'

[lazarus]

Stever Lillywhite has only produced some of the best songs of U2's career...('Pride', 'With or Without You', etc). Imagine if he hadn't been around? U2 would have had far less hit singles, far different albums and, as such, would be a totally different band.

So what? Yeah, he was instrumental in crafting the band's early sound. They changed gears (several times), and his work often doesn't rise to the occasion any more.

I don't know what celebrating his contributions from 20 years ago has anything to do with this. Also, he only mixed WOWY (and Streets), and had NOTHING to do with the recording of Pride, so, uhh...you're wrong anyway.

 

[Fullonedge3]

and here's the #1 song in America:

"AAALLLL MY LIFE I'VE BEEN WAAAIIITING FOR!"

If Lillywhite's heard that track, I bet he's licking his chops at the prospect of producing such a chorus...

I love the new album, but have to say the Lillywhite songs aren't quite up to par with the Eno/Lanois songs. In comparison, they sound flat and two-dimensional. I get irritated listening to Breathe because the mix is such a hatchet job to my ears. The beach clip had me really really psyched for that song, but IMO the version that made the album emphasizes the worst parts of the beach clip and minimizes the best parts. It boggles my mind how we got the mix that we did. You can tell the song is there. The sound and concept of Breathe from the beach clips was brilliant, but instead I find the song has failed to capture its potential. I've tried very hard to like the album mix, but keep finding that the sound itself is annoyingly two-dimensional and the song very "cut-and-paste." I could go on...but in the end I think my conclusion is that Lillywhite has outlived his usefulness to the band. Thank you for what you did for U2 in the early days, but the band has evolved a lot since then. They don't need your big fix-all chorus in every single song to be successful anymore. Now that U2's in its older, wiser stage, they should just let loose a little bit and not keep re-thinking songs in order to make them more cautious and calculated. I love NLOTH for the most part, but I'd be happy to see less Lillywhite in the future.

 

[Earnie Shavers]

I love the new album, but have to say the Lillywhite songs aren't quite up to par with the Eno/Lanois songs. In comparison, they sound flat and two-dimensional. I get irritated listening to Breathe because the mix is such a hatchet job to my ears.

Totally agreed.

I think it’s silly to judge much beyond obvious structure/melody changes when talking about the beach clips though. Sometimes you can hear something clearly different in the arrangement (e.g. there’s a very strong synth part in the Unknown Caller clip that’s not on the album), but mostly remember it’s like listening to someone booming music from a couple of houses down your street. So much is lost/sounds different/buried. And you really have no idea what stage you’re listening to. Someone saying “It sounds raw” might be simply because it is a very first up, 4 guys only demo. That might sound great wafting over the beach, but in reality sound terrible on record.

But yeah, I like Breathe in its feel/idea/story etc etc and do think it could absolutely suit the album, but its production leaves it feeling very light in comparison to everything around it. It really stands out to me now and I don’t really like hearing it there, in that position on the tracklist. I think it would have been good coming after Boots, in place of SUC. Then go from it into a finished Winter, that starts of very U2-ey but then gives you a smooth transition back into the Eno/Lanois stuff via that great last third that it has.

 

[Canadiens1131]

Typical Steve Lillywhite Song Circa 2009

• Wooshy background guitar chord reverb noise played backwards
• Ringing guitar riff
• Drums come in either compressed to hell or sounding like a washing machine running in the other room
• ONLY GUITARS MAY BE PANNED FAR LEFT OR RIGHT. THERE MAY ONLY BE A MAXIMUM OF TWO GUITAR TRACKS.
• Geeze, can we get to the chorus already?
• Man this chorus really pops; radio-ready! Bono sings worst possible lyric from song rough draft
• Breakdown: Larry....we need to thump those toms a bit more, like, twenty times more for drama
• Final chorus....man, this is just like 1983
• Edge MUST finish the song with a power chord and pick slide.
• Call Bloc Party to find out why they went with a different producer for next album

 

[Clawgrabber]

Typical Steve Lillywhite Song Circa 2009

• Edge MUST finish the song with a power chord and pick slide.
  

hahahaha. why does he do that? he does that on every song now? ABOY, GOYB. SUC. shit off the top of my head, my brain is telling me that every song on nloth ends that way, but i know that's not right.
maybe not the power chord, but definitely the slide (rattle rattle rattle Jjjwoop.)

I call it the "jwoop" because i'm not a guitar player

 

[santiago]

Although I agree that Lillywhite's mixes really stick out in the album (in a bad way), I think it's wrong to comdem him too much.

His pop-focus has been really good for u2 many times in their history, from WOWY to the chorus of SYCMIOYO.

Also his idea of recording live takes in the studio rather than perfecting old recordings also has merit. Vertigo has a great energy and that is partly due to his production.

I agree that that same trick has not worked for Crazy tonight, SUC or even Breathe, and that his musical directness would have had to be balanced by more sonic weirdness and lyrical restraint (particularly on Crazy tonight and SUC - Breathe at least has the piano and the cello), but well, everybody makes mistakes sometimes...

 

[The Disciple]

Let me guess: Starts off quiet, but Bono is howling into the chorus at full belt within the first 20 seconds. You wouldn’t really even call the first verse a verse it happens so quick. He’s screaming the second verse while Edge behind him is giving up all his juice. Into the second chorus really quickly again. Bono is all over the knees and love and soul and heart on this one – classic Bono. Masterpiece lyrics. Then everything drops really quiet again. Really quiet. Ooh-aah-ooh-aah. Then Edge soars with something that sounds vaguely like everything else he’s ever done!!!! Stadium classic! And here comes Bono for a big finale! Masterpiece! Classic! Recorded way too fucking loud! Sounds like a million U2 rip-offs! Awesome song!!!!! #1 hit single for sure! U2 just re-applied again!!!

LMAO... that was pretty damn funny...

 

[bonoz]

Can I download this interview?

 

[I am]

Take your opinions and shove them where the sun dont shine.. if it were'nt for Lillywhite, Lanois, Eno we woulds not have such great albums as UF, JT and AB so learn to deal with the fact that U2 tried different things this time even though some of it is similar to previous work.. who cares it's still great and alot of poeple are loving it. and of course they still make mistakes (Boots)as no one is perfect!

 

[rihannsu]

When looking at U2 credits it all gets pretty meaningless. Compared to the norm what U2 wants from a producer is totally different. Mixing isn't a seperate process it is part of the songwriting. Also, the band has final say over what goes on the album so why blame Lillywhite for what mix they pick. It is well known that they often have multiple people mixing songs and choose what they like and also make their own changes so ultimately it is the band that is at fault or not. Lillywhite's importance as he stated in this interview fairly clearly is that of a closer. He is the one who comes in at the end and can say to these guys, enough already, put the bloody album out. If they didn't bring him in they'd probably never finish anything. If you read carefully you will find that Lillywhite has come in at the end of every album to kick their asses into gear. The problem is really that U2 can't find anyone who will kick their ass instead of kissing it in the studio. Most producers are used to coddling big egos and coaxing work out of artists but that's not what U2 needs. They need people like Eno and Lanois to stimulate them creatively and keep the ball rolling with new ideas and they need people like Lillywhite who will kick their ass into gear to actually finish a project. As the band have said repeatedly they don't finish albums, they just release them but without Lillywhite they'd probably never get around to that even. Eno has said in the past that if U2 listened to him they'd have entire albums that they could never play live and he said that would be tragic. They need the balance between the artsyness and the commercial or they will disappear up their own asses and never be heard from again. Do you really want endless albums like Passengers? It was an interesting project but I wouldn't want that all the time. And the best songs on that came from Bono and Edge insisting on having some more U2 sounding songs that could actually be performed live. It's beyond ridiculous to credit the band for the great stuff and blame the producers for the bad. U2 themselves usually see it the other way around. If you think the mix on the Lillywhite songs suck then the band is to blame for choosing to use them. It's not like they don't have options or don't hear the songs after mixing.

Dana

 

[Irvine511]

If they didn't bring him in they'd probably never finish anything.

yes.

 

[Muldfeld]

Could it be that Eno and Lanois version of With Or Without You was even better? Hard to imagine, but this sort of thing should have been on the reissue. No one wants remixes, The Edge!

Also, I wonder if whatever talent Lillywhite had might have given way to Bono-like commercialism. He sounds like a moron disparaging the brilliant Radiohead and saying U2 wants to be like The fraking Killers. You mean they want to be popular and suck rather than be amazing, even if you only sell a few million records! How greedy can these guys get? I realize now that U2 used to be about changing the maintream to make music better. Now it's much more about ego and being the attention of the world. Again, I haven't heard the album yet, but hopefully will next week, but, with GOYB and the last 2 albums, U2 has actually damaged the mainstream by hogging up the spotlight and awards. I'm not a massive Bloc Party fan, but that first album was pretty great and certainly deserved a Grammy more than HTDAAB! This is outrageous!

Also, Will i am thinking that was a great line is embarrassing. The guy seems well-intentioned politically, but kind of an idiot. Black Eyed Peas are so lame. They'd be nothing without the T&A fest that is Fergie. Why doesn't U2 realize that?!

 

[Muldfeld]

So, what, we're blaming Steve Lillywhite for U2's downturn now? Eno/Lanois refined U2 in the mid-eighties; Steve BUILT them. The one constant thread that connects all U2 albums is - U2. So, how about we start blaming the band? The real problem is that U2 can't agree on anything with any one producer - they can't decide what THEY want - and end up calling in old friends to help them piecemeal an album together because they wandered into the studio with no clear ideas. If they did an album only with Eno and Lanois, it probably wouldn't be any better or worse than if they did an album only with Lillywhite. If the BAND could just agree on a vision for an album (and write some songs before going into the studio) they'd be a lot better off. This is apparently impossible for U2 now. The funny thing is, more often than not, it's Lillywhite who ends up pulling Eno/Lanois' fat out of the fryer, even if it's just a mix job. We need look no further than The Joshua Tree for that.

My judgement is based on how Eno talks about music (intelligently) versus how Lillywhite does (like a commercial guy). There's no way of knowing if Eno/Lanois' stuff would have been worse. I agree with you it's the band's fault, but look at what the band have created in jam sessions! From what I've read, the worst songs on this album are the pre-written ones. The jam-inspired ones are the best. I think it's cool that U2 composes things haphazardly. I wish it stuck to that spirit and then worked on things as Eno would like them to; as he said, they spent months on the singles, but never reworked "Winter", which he wanted them to do.

 

[An Cat Gav]

Lillywhite didn't have anything to do with Pride, or The Unforgettable Fire album at all did he?

 

[Muldfeld]

Lillywhite didn't have anything to do with Pride, or The Unforgettable Fire album at all did he?

No. Just checked my liner notes. There's so little info on the damn things. I hope the remaster has more.

He DID produce "Fast Cars" which has some nice soft guitar plucking, so I must be thankful for that. It's not as obvious as the rest of HTDAAB.

 

[standrums]

You're all analysing too much..go out and get some fresh air

 

[the scuv]

We know U2 albums recording sessions are chaotic.

Talking about Breath specifically Steve did a mix of this back in April 2008 (beach clips, walk out into streets HQ audio clip, photos of him leaving studio). As an example, during the summer break Bono played this real loud at his French villa for us all to hear & Larrymullenfan to record & distribute!. I imagine the other band members went away and listened to the songs too. We've then got U2.com clips of Edge doing an E-bow overdub on the backing track.

At the end of the day, its the band driving the final songs. Steve would have done a mix, Bono would have changed/improvised that bridge into the 1st chorus & given it back to Steve to remix again. So on & so forth.

 

[chrissybaby]

Could it be that Eno and Lanois version of With Or Without You was even better? Hard to imagine, but this sort of thing should have been on the reissue. No one wants remixes, The Edge!

Also, I wonder if whatever talent Lillywhite had might have given way to Bono-like commercialism. He sounds like a moron disparaging the brilliant Radiohead and saying U2 wants to be like The fraking Killers. You mean they want to be popular and suck rather than be amazing, even if you only sell a few million records! How greedy can these guys get? I realize now that U2 used to be about changing the maintream to make music better. Now it's much more about ego and being the attention of the world. Again, I haven't heard the album yet, but hopefully will next week, but, with GOYB and the last 2 albums, U2 has actually damaged the mainstream by hogging up the spotlight and awards. I'm not a massive Bloc Party fan, but that first album was pretty great and certainly deserved a Grammy more than HTDAAB! This is outrageous!

Also, Will i am thinking that was a great line is embarrassing. The guy seems well-intentioned politically, but kind of an idiot. Black Eyed Peas are so lame. They'd be nothing without the T&A fest that is Fergie. Why doesn't U2 realize that?!

The irony for me is that the more bands like Killers and KOL try and sound big and stadium like U2, the worse they actually become. So you end up with U2 trying to critically keep up with bands who are bending over backwards to sound big like U2, but just finding creative dead-ends.

 

[Rafiennes]

If you want to blame anyone, blame the band.

They're the ones who want to mix the more ambient (Eno/Lanois) tracks with the more commercial tracks (Lillywhite). It's their call.

So don't blame the guys who sit behind the desk and mix these things -- it all comes down to the band.

Personally, I don't mind the Lillywhite stuff -- yeah, its not all otherworldly and dreamy, but you know what, those are the choruses that are waiting for me when I wake up in the morning, they jump right in to my head while I'm still getting my thoughts together.

I actually find that Lanois annoys me a bit (and I think it has more to do with the way he's come off in some interviews I've seen than his talent -- the guy's got talent, but I'm grateful they told him to leave the steel pedal home this time around -- that shit gets old after awhile) but I can't deny the fact that the guy has produced some great pieces of music with some great artists over the years

And in the same way, Lillywhite has worked with some decent acts in his career: Tarvis, XTC, Morrissey, Simple Minds, Peter Gabriel, Rolling Stones, etc. The guy must be doing something right.

It's fun to criticize the guys working with the band, but at the end of the day, it comes down to U2.

 

[monsieur fly]

Let me guess: Starts off quiet, but Bono is howling into the chorus at full belt within the first 20 seconds. You wouldn’t really even call the first verse a verse it happens so quick. He’s screaming the second verse while Edge behind him is giving up all his juice. Into the second chorus really quickly again. Bono is all over the knees and love and soul and heart on this one – classic Bono. Masterpiece lyrics. Then everything drops really quiet again. Really quiet. Ooh-aah-ooh-aah. Then Edge soars with something that sounds vaguely like everything else he’s ever done!!!! Stadium classic! And here comes Bono for a big finale! Masterpiece! Classic! Recorded way too fucking loud! Sounds like a million U2 rip-offs! Awesome song!!!!! #1 hit single for sure! U2 just re-applied again!!!

Comic gold- a great and painfully true post.

 

[monsieur fly]

A Lillywhite/Rubin album would have just killed U2- it would be an orgy of Bono yelps, "crystalline" keyboards, unbearably loud guitar plodding, generic drumming and contrived choruses about kneeling before dawns. That's what "back to basics" is all about, y'all!

 

[monsieur fly]

I wonder how Brian Eno and Daniel Lanois feel when Bono or whoever tells them "we're bringing Steve in to polish things up a bit." Haha.

 

[Salome]

have the people who translate Bono saying something about "competing" with The Killers and King of Leon into "U2 makes music with The Killers and Kings of Leon in mind " actually heard No Line on the Horizon?
if so, then why pretend that it is obvious that U2 is using them as a main musical reference point
or am I deaf?

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

My judgement is based on how Eno talks about music (intelligently) versus how Lillywhite does (like a commercial guy). There's no way of knowing if Eno/Lanois' stuff would have been worse. I agree with you it's the band's fault, but look at what the band have created in jam sessions! From what I've read, the worst songs on this album are the pre-written ones. The jam-inspired ones are the best. I think it's cool that U2 composes things haphazardly. I wish it stuck to that spirit and then worked on things as Eno would like them to; as he said, they spent months on the singles, but never reworked "Winter", which he wanted them to do.

maybe you should, ya know... listen to the album before you comment on it.

i heard it leaked recently... you should try to pick it up. spock and the klingons would approve.

 

[zwervers2]

Yeah, Lillywhite helped on Achtung Baby, but that was when he stuck to mixing a few songs.

He really doesn't have what it takes to get the best out of these guys in the producer's chair.

I just don't understand the rationale behind having your album produced by more than one team. It's just ridiculous and is the enemy of a cohesive artistic statement.

 

[Lukeskywalker]

Steve Liilywhite has been there from the start.
He's a great producer and U2 will always return to him for production.

 

[Aygo]

have the people who translate Bono saying something about "competing" with The Killers and King of Leon into "U2 makes music with The Killers and Kings of Leon in mind " actually heard No Line on the Horizon?
if so, then why pretend that it is obvious that U2 is using them as a main musical reference point
or am I deaf?

You guys gotta stop with the KOL/Killers influences in NLOTH.
Before being a Kil/LOL wannabe, NLOTH is a Achtung Baby/Zooropa wannabe - at least the title track is (it has UTEOTW, LWTSH and Ultraviolet mashed'up and incorporated). So, if anyone is a wannabe that's for the "newbies".

 

[IndyShade]

I don't agree with this at all. U2 did have songs (for the most part) before going into the studio once. That was ATYCLB. Some loved it, some didn't. I think it's a good album, but not the band doing what they do best--there's a lot of gray area between following a muse or a sound in the studio to develop material, and overcooking stuff because you're trying to fashion a hit single. The trick is having someone behind the board who knows where to draw the line.

Could you focus/rephrase that statement?

Unfortunately Lillywhite doesn't have enough power or vision to stop them from indulging their worst tendencies. Eno does, and had they listened to him, we might have wound up with a much-improved Winter on the album, and minus a song that they were taking way too much time on, like Stand Up Comedy.

You contradict yourself, here. Re-read what you wrote, and then tell me how Eno is any different from Lillywhite when it comes to "stopping the band from indulging in their worst tendencies". Eno clearly doesn't have the power that you say he does, and he's actually been quite vocal about that.

So in short, I think it's bullshit that they would get a similar result with either Lanois/Eno or Lillywhite.

I'm not saying the albums would sound the same. The point I am making is that they need to stick with one producer per album if they want to achieve something cohesive, and that Lillywhite is historically just as capable of producing cohesive U2 albums as Eno/Lanois. Would they sound different? Yeah, of course. But, U2 needs to choose who they really want to work with, because running to another producer every time they hit a wall is generating hodgepodge albums that don't stack up to their greats.

And, dissing the guy who produced Boy, October, War, and had a hand in many of the band's greatest hits - including songs on Eno/Lanois albums - is ridiculous. I'll say it again - the people ultimately at fault for any of U2's flaws or failings are U2. It's their show, and they choose their collaborators, who are really glorified employees. Nobody will ever ever force Bono to put something on an album that Bono can't live with. Same goes for the others. Stop blaming everybody else when U2 fucks up.

 

[U2DMfan]

U2 are in a bubble, as any artist is, producers provide pertinent feedback.
When that reflection of the material (off of the producer) is toward the more basic, then that's what you get in u2's case, because of their close relationships with their longtime collaborators. U2 is more endeared to certain voices, end of story.

U2 is a democracy that hits constant states of impasse.
They then turn to their trusted ears. Lillywhite's work with the band speaks for itself.
It's a lot less adventurous, I don't think there can be any doubt about that.

Yes, U2 has the ultimate say in any of this, they chose those songs because that's what they believed was best but to just leave it there...doesn't give the whole picture.

They arrive at those positions because of what trusted minds are telling them.
And there is little doubt IMO that the Lillywhite/Iovine "camp" differ with the Eno/Lanois camp probably as much as the 2 songwriters differ from the rhythm section.

I think Lillywhite tells them to not lose themselves too much.
To try and make singles, to not shy away from being 'tight'. Eno is the guy to help stir the creative pot. U2 ends up in the middle, and we fans end up with opinions on the matter.

Agree or disagree, but there is no absolute way of determining any of this.

 

[Michael Griffiths]

So what? Yeah, he was instrumental in crafting the band's early sound. They changed gears (several times), and his work often doesn't rise to the occasion any more.

I don't know what celebrating his contributions from 20 years ago has anything to do with this. Also, he only mixed WOWY (and Streets), and had NOTHING to do with the recording of Pride, so, uhh...you're wrong anyway.

You are guite emotional, aren't you?