Songs of Experience - Part V

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I agree with you and Headache about how EBW and California stick out.



EBW in particular, I remember feeling out of place in an album about innocence - lyrically it feels like an 'experience' sequel to Song for Someone.



I think the band just saw EBW as a strong tune, and one of the most likely to do well commercially, and given SoI was the 'comeback' after NLOTH, they put it in just to strengthen the album.


Shame they didn't release the album version of the song.

Whenever they go back on tour, it'd be a welcome change to hear the full band version (and save Bono's voice)


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Of course accessability is considered to the extent "is this cool to only us?" Which is just another way of asking "does this suck?" But unless one is a commercial artist, contracted to do a particular thing, it is artistic death to allow an imagined audience dictate what you do, particularly if you think your work needs to be made more accessible (dumbed down) for them. Most rock bands - U2 included - don't instinctually make or even like music that's challenging. OST 1, U2's most unconventional album, is much more "accessible" than records by Bowie, Radiohead, Pink Floyd, NIN...the list is long of big albums much stranger than anything U2 would do. Their "out there" music is just interesting; their purposefully accessible music is boring. They're not good enough songwriters or musicians to be a basic pop/rock band, catering to the masses.

Also worth considering is that the masses right now have horrible taste. It's not 68 or 93.

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Ehhh.... don't agree about u2 being that unexperrimental
I'm someone who's pretty intellectual, but I rarely look down on more... usual, common works. I love a good amount of it, and actually I don't find it boring. I don't separate it much Hard to put into words exactly how I feel.

I did have a few PF albums, or my sis & I shared I bought one, she bought one
And I did see them at the Filmore East in '70 playing Atom Hart Mother, and also playing stuff from Saucer Full of Secrets (2nd album) maybe something from their first as well. Beautiful, mysterious
Had some Bowie albums. Saw him at Radio City Hall for Ziggy Stardust . that was a great show!
 
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Ehhh.... don't agree about u2 being that unexperrimental
I'm someone who's pretty intellectual, but I rarely look down on more... usual, common works. I love a good amount of it, and actually I don't find it boring. I don't separate it much Hard to put into words exactly how I feel.

Gonna try a bit more on this. hnmm ..
I don't think common = inferior... I think that's as close as I can right now to expressing this thought, feeling.
I&m sure there"d be people who would think I was hardly an intellectual
Here in the States the times sometimes swings to a fairly anti-intellectual climate
 
Shame they didn't release the album version of the song.

Whenever they go back on tour, it'd be a welcome change to hear the full band version (and save Bono's voice)


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Yeah, I'd love to finally hear a full band rendition done live; hopefully they mix things up with something like that when the tour resumes.

I listened to the 2011 version recently, and I think there are some really great aspects that it lost by 2014.
Edge's guitar work is very effective at creating a rolling storm of atmosphere. And the outro, with Bono & Edge's harmonies (what became the bridge of the final version) are beautiful. I get that they wanted a more traditional song structure, but I was disappointed to see those harmonies were gone.
The final version is more raw, traditional rock (even with the synths).

I think merging the original's sparse, driving atmosphere and outro harmonies with the final version's chorus, maybe held together with a driving, slow build up drum pattern (like in 'Bad') would be a perfect version to me.
 
Ehhh.... don't agree about u2 being that unexperrimental
I'm someone who's pretty intellectual, but I rarely look down on more... usual, common works. I love a good amount of it, and actually I don't find it boring. I don't separate it much Hard to put into words exactly how I feel.

I did have a few PF albums, or my sis & I shared I bought one, she bought one
And I did see them at the Filmore East in '70 playing Atom Hart Mother, and also playing stuff from Saucer Full of Secrets (2nd album) maybe something from their first as well. Beautiful, mysterious
Had some Bowie albums. Saw him at Radio City Hall for Ziggy Stardust . that was a great show!

Maybe I phrased it badly. I don't really think that common = inferior either, just that the stuff that's successful on the charts these days is terrible and I think that to try to be successful in that are necessitates making less interesting work.

U2 are experimental but almost always within a rock format. They've never really gone that far out.

You saw Pink Floyd in 1970 and Bowie in 72? Lucky fucker! How many U2 tours have you seen? I really love hearing about shows that people older than me have seen. It amazes me that Pink Floyd were as huge as they were. If they made that same music today it would be released on Drag City or something and they'd be playing clubs.
 
Thanks for posting. The video doesn't play here though... Googling "U2 Every breaking wave alternate mix" I found this:
U2News - Every Breaking Wave (alternate mix audio) - Vìdeo Dailymotion
Is that the same?

here's a great example of some poor mixing decisions..

why is the guitar so buried in the mix in the chorus? it should sound like a sonic skyscrapper.. a big, bold, cascading sound... like the guitar mixes in NYD, TUF, Disappearing Act, etc. Up front in the mix!!

Instead we get buried, textureless, dimensionless, sonic wallpaper..
 
Assume in another day or two we'll see Adam in another tropical location.

Bono in AFFFFFFRRRRRRIIIICCCCCAAAAA

Edge in Malibu

Larry, parts unknown


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Wanted to jump in the EBW talk.

I think that is the best song 'U2' song on SOI. Has all the elements of a U2 hit but yet it wasn't. That right there shows me I don't see U2 getting another hit anytime soon.

EBW full band would have been a great encore opener
 
Wanted to jump in the EBW talk.



I think that is the best song 'U2' song on SOI. Has all the elements of a U2 hit but yet it wasn't. That right there shows me I don't see U2 getting another hit anytime soon.



EBW full band would have been a great encore opener


After ATYCLB, U2 tends to give up promotion after the first single.

Agree that EBW had a shot but they got on this acoustic kick and I think that took steam out of the album (and Bono's bike accident).

To me there's been a bit of a shift in the band since the Vertigo tour, with the focus seeming to be more on Bono and his voice than the band. EBW acoustic is a nice song, Bono sang it great, especially early on. Even the studio efforts seem to showcase more of Bono than anything else. He is so high in the mix that it's tough to really get a feel for the song unless he's quiet.

To me, nothing beats the entire band together live


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here's a great example of some poor mixing decisions..

why is the guitar so buried in the mix in the chorus? it should sound like a sonic skyscrapper.. a big, bold, cascading sound... like the guitar mixes in NYD, TUF, Disappearing Act, etc. Up front in the mix!!

Instead we get buried, textureless, dimensionless, sonic wallpaper..

If the guitars were the focal point then they'd get confused for being a rock band and you can't allow that to happen if you want to be on pop radio. Guitars are dead in the pop world unless you're the Foo Fighters, and that's unfortunate for U2 because their greatest strength is the guitarist. Remove prominence from the guitar and the band is a lot less interesting.
 
If the guitars were the focal point then they'd get confused for being a rock band and you can't allow that to happen if you want to be on pop radio. Guitars are dead in the pop world unless you're the Foo Fighters, and that's unfortunate for U2 because their greatest strength is the guitarist. Remove prominence from the guitar and the band is a lot less interesting.

it's baffling..

I like the song..I'm not questioning the band's songwriting.. but I'd love to be a fly on the fall in the mixing booth and see who's steering the whole operation into blandsville
 
it's baffling..

I like the song..I'm not questioning the band's songwriting.. but I'd love to be a fly on the fall in the mixing booth and see who's steering the whole operation into blandsville

This is just my guess, but I think it's Edge. Suppose with age you're going to settle down a bit more, can't expect a lot of rage to come out of that guitar as much....

But I find his playing to be very bland, and have felt this way for a while. He's always had a style, a signature sound, but there seems to be something more....childish about his playing lately. I mean, The Fly is like 3 notes for the riff, anyone can play it, but it just had a certain energy about it, a mood.

Then you have a song like SUC, and it's a big tune, big riff, but it just gives off a weird vibe, like watered down....so hard to put into words, it just seems so basic/generic?

One of my favorite qualities of Edge is that he never seemed to lay down tracks that were generic, even if layered with delay/echo, it was different than you'd hear anyone else play.

Now I feel like anyone could play a U2 song and get it right. I know some people debate the word experimentation, and it's subjective....but for me there's no exploration with Edge anymore, or if there is, it gets neutered for the record.

I dunno, I expect to hear more of the same for SOE. It's only when U2 has given up on the #1 hit, that we'll probably get that sense of adventure again
 
I can't tell if he's talking about U2 or the Killers from the middle part on.....assume U2 with Killers as a reference point
 
He could be joking around but reading that doesn't lead me to believe he was happy about how they brought him in or maybe he just thought it was strange and off putting.


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This is just my guess, but I think it's Edge. Suppose with age you're going to settle down a bit more, can't expect a lot of rage to come out of that guitar as much....

But I find his playing to be very bland, and have felt this way for a while. He's always had a style, a signature sound, but there seems to be something more....childish about his playing lately. I mean, The Fly is like 3 notes for the riff, anyone can play it, but it just had a certain energy about it, a mood.

Then you have a song like SUC, and it's a big tune, big riff, but it just gives off a weird vibe, like watered down....so hard to put into words, it just seems so basic/generic?

One of my favorite qualities of Edge is that he never seemed to lay down tracks that were generic, even if layered with delay/echo, it was different than you'd hear anyone else play.

Now I feel like anyone could play a U2 song and get it right. I know some people debate the word experimentation, and it's subjective....but for me there's no exploration with Edge anymore, or if there is, it gets neutered for the record.

I dunno, I expect to hear more of the same for SOE. It's only when U2 has given up on the #1 hit, that we'll probably get that sense of adventure again


I think the big change has been two things:

The move towards 'classic' songwriting, that can stand up with just an acoustic guitar or piano.

Edge's increasing love for 'classic' rock.

Both factors seem to have led to Edge largely abandoning his pedal rig.

I do respect their desire to be better 'song writers', and I think they made some pretty strong stuff on SoI that didn't rely on fancy guitar work (I personally love the 'oh-oh-oh's running through Miracle, and EBW's new chorus is brilliant simply because of the vocal. And the simple distorted riff of cedarwood road is one of Edge's best riffs), so I'm looking forward to what they achieve for SoE. But there's definitely something sad about the loss of cool guitar effects.

To me their new style of making tunes is so different, it's not a case of better or worse; it's apples and oranges.
 
He could be joking around but reading that doesn't lead me to believe he was happy about how they brought him in or maybe he just thought it was strange and off putting.


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"Lots of hits, modern hits"
 
I think the big change has been two things:

The move towards 'classic' songwriting, that can stand up with just an acoustic guitar or piano.

Edge's increasing love for 'classic' rock.

Both factors seem to have led to Edge largely abandoning his pedal rig.

I do respect their desire to be better 'song writers', and I think they made some pretty strong stuff on SoI that didn't rely on fancy guitar work (I personally love the 'oh-oh-oh's running through Miracle, and EBW's new chorus is brilliant simply because of the vocal. And the simple distorted riff of cedarwood road is one of Edge's best riffs), so I'm looking forward to what they achieve for SoE. But there's definitely something sad about the loss of cool guitar effects.

To me their new style of making tunes is so different, it's not a case of better or worse; it's apples and oranges.

I think that's part of it too. They openly admitted they were shit musicians when they started, so it was a lot of improv, and work to get songs out of them, but they were unique, and uniquely theirs.

Over time and experience, they've become much better at songwriting, and I'll admit, they have produced better melodies now than they ever have. I guess something is bound to be lost when you're not noodling your way through a song on guitar, you know a proper structure to follow. (and i don't mean chord structure, i mean Edge coming up with effects to cover up songwriting)

I do disagree with Cederwood riff, I just find it the same. Boring, and doesn't really go anywhere. RBW seemed to have a lot more going on (at least live).

With an album called Songs of Experience, I would imagine we get more classic rock sounds from Edge.

Also feel like Adam made a switch after Pop. I think it was during the ATYCLB sessions he said he used to always try to find the baddest bass line, and that he's more musical now.

It'd be cool if he went back to baddest bass lines again :)
 
I think that's part of it too. They openly admitted they were shit musicians when they started, so it was a lot of improv, and work to get songs out of them, but they were unique, and uniquely theirs.

Over time and experience, they've become much better at songwriting, and I'll admit, they have produced better melodies now than they ever have. I guess something is bound to be lost when you're not noodling your way through a song on guitar, you know a proper structure to follow. (and i don't mean chord structure, i mean Edge coming up with effects to cover up songwriting)

I do disagree with Cederwood riff, I just find it the same. Boring, and doesn't really go anywhere. RBW seemed to have a lot more going on (at least live).

With an album called Songs of Experience, I would imagine we get more classic rock sounds from Edge.

Also feel like Adam made a switch after Pop. I think it was during the ATYCLB sessions he said he used to always try to find the baddest bass line, and that he's more musical now.

It'd be cool if he went back to baddest bass lines again :)

Haha I remember hearing that about Adam! He said something about enjoying the more simple, 'playful' things.
Would be cool to get another NYD style, bass driven song. I guess invisible and volcano were steps in that direction.

Fair enough if you're not a fan of cedarwood. For me it feels like a great classic rock riff that Edge finally made after trying (But not quite achieving) with SuC, Glastonbury etc. It's a bit more charismatic and ballsier, the others sounded more generic and non-threatening (can't really think of the right expression).
Same thing with miracle, actually. Even if he's sadly leaving the crazier effects behind, at least his raw rock riffs are getting better (imo).

I agree we'll see more classic rock in SoE. Will be interesting to see how much 'harder' the music gets after the varied reports we've heard.
 
Ryan tedder certainly doesn't seem to specialise in hard rock; his genre seems more like what Registered Dude posted.

So, I'm curious to hear the kind of paradoxical blend of pop production with classic, hard rock guitar.

I just hope it is a real blend, rather than half the album being produced by Lamb etc, and the other half done by Tedder and sounding completely different. That would echo SoI perfectly, but not in a good way.
 
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