Should T-Bone Burnett Produce a U2 Album?

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The Panther said:
That's absolutely right. I think younger fans (bless 'em) who weren't there at the time have a distorted perception -- partly based on U2's own self-mythologizing -- that R&H was this big disaster, when in fact it was one of the most successful albums of the 80s by a rock band, in commercial terms. Now, in artistic terms we could debate its relative merits (I personally think the studio cuts are the best work they've ever done), and the whole concept of the live + studio + film project was a bit of overkill, but none of this harmed the band's profile at the time. If anything, it got bigger. After R&H, they were the world's biggest band, with the biggest profile. .
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:applaud::applaud::applaud::applaud::applaud::applaud::applaud:
 
The Panther said:
Pop was a completely different story, as it failed to generate much interest at all from the mainstream, and got a mixed reaction from the committed fanbase. It clearly did not galvanize the masses as the 1988/89 stuff did, and it greatly lessened U2's "profile".
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Unfairly, I might add. And then they followed it up with a great album that put them back on top.
 
cobl04 said:
Unfairly, I might add. And then they followed it up with a great album that put them back on top.
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Yes, ATYCLB, on the back of Beautiful Day, did a lot to get U2's sales and respect back up, but it also turned a lot of people off. IMO it's their weakest album ever, and there are a lot of people who think the band lost it after POP.
 
cobl04 said:
By "a lot of people" do you mean "10 or 20 on interference"?
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In my experience, Interference has a much higher opinion of ATYCLB than the world at large. As I've said before, I've never heard a kind word said about the album in real life. I usually have to defend it.

ETA: But I will agree, not a lot of them have kind words for anything after Zooropa either.
 
You live in a weird place then, because all the casual/common fans I know in real life, or even non-fans of U2 really like All That You Can't Leave Behind.
 
Yeah, ATYCLB is by and large the most widely beloved U2 album since Achtung Baby. I think it's terribly unfortunate, but that's just the way it is.
 
Niceman said:
In my experience, Interference has a much higher opinion of ATYCLB than the world at large. As I've said before, I've never heard a kind word said about the album in real life. I usually have to defend it.

ETA: But I will agree, not a lot of them have kind words for anything after Zooropa either.
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Well that's what I mean. I've only ever met people who either hate U2 based on 5 or 10 or so songs, or love them (either based on 5 or 10 or so songs, or reaching a level a bit lower than my love). I've never met anyone who has said they did love the band in the 80s, and again in the 90s, but lost their way with Atty Club.
 
The Panther said:
That's absolutely right. I think younger fans (bless 'em) who weren't there at the time have a distorted perception -- partly based on U2's own self-mythologizing -- that R&H was this big disaster, when in fact it was one of the most successful albums of the 80s by a rock band, in commercial terms. Now, in artistic terms we could debate its relative merits (I personally think the studio cuts are the best work they've ever done), and the whole concept of the live + studio + film project was a bit of overkill, but none of this harmed the band's profile at the time. If anything, it got bigger. After R&H, they were the world's biggest band, with the biggest profile.
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Flanagan's book and the old interviews state pretty well just how much of a misfire Rattle and Hum proved to be. Ultimately a dead end career-wise, and in retrospect, two of the black marks in U2's catalogue.

And it has nothing to do with commercial sucess. The world's biggest band made their first mistake/bad album, and got called out on it.
 
Niceman said:
In my experience, Interference has a much higher opinion of ATYCLB than the world at large. As I've said before, I've never heard a kind word said about the album in real life. I usually have to defend it.
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That's too bad. Real world pretty much loved ATYCLB. The internet U2 fandom critisizes the album.
 
U2girl said:
Flanagan's book and the old interviews state pretty well just how much of a misfire Rattle and Hum proved to be. Ultimately a dead end career-wise, and in retrospect, two of the black marks in U2's catalogue.

And it has nothing to do with commercial sucess. The world's biggest band made their first mistake/bad album, and got called out on it.
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In all fairness, it's probably not a good idea to use Flanagan's book as evidence for R&H's inferiority; Flanagan is the author, and ultimately it's his job is to entertain, stir shit and gain an audience for his book. There's no drama, no controversy if R&H is yet another fine album and this new one should be pleasant too and wait why am I writing about Achtung Baby again who cares?

The storyline is that R&H was a flop. The truth is obviously much more complex than that.
 
The fact that about 95% of what I know about that late 80s period comes from interference and/or people who would have been too young at the time ragging on R&H goes to show that I really have no idea.
 
U2girl said:
Flanagan's book and the old interviews state pretty well just how much of a misfire Rattle and Hum proved to be. Ultimately a dead end career-wise, and in retrospect, two of the black marks in U2's catalogue.

And it has nothing to do with commercial sucess. The world's biggest band made their first mistake/bad album, and got called out on it.
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It's entirely revised history. I was there. Zooropa was when the casual fan thought they misstepped, then Pop was off a cliff, and they may have never come up again, except for Beautiful Day and Vertigo.
 
LemonMelon said:
In all fairness, it's probably not a good idea to use Flanagan's book as evidence for R&H's inferiority; Flanagan is the author, and ultimately it's his job is to entertain, stir shit and gain an audience for his book. There's no drama, no controversy if R&H is yet another fine album and this new one should be pleasant too and wait why am I writing about Achtung Baby again who cares?

The storyline is that R&H was a flop. The truth is obviously much more complex than that.
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The R&H drama didn't exactly need any beefing up from Flanagan.
 
Niceman said:
It's entirely revised history. I was there. Zooropa was when the casual fan thought they misstepped, then Pop was off a cliff, and they may have never come up again, except for Beautiful Day and Vertigo.
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Zooropa is the hidden album that got caught up in the Zoo era. More than a misstep, it never really gets talked about. Pop and Rattle and Hum are the misfires, and the band got flamed twice. No revised history.

Real world has plenty of nice things to say about ATYCLB (Interference and U2 internet forums, not so much in general.). Revised history, much ?
 
U2girl said:
Zooropa is the hidden album that got caught up in the Zoo era. More than a misstep, it never really gets talked about. Pop and Rattle and Hum are the misfires, and the band got flamed twice. No revised history.

Real world has plenty of nice things to say about ATYCLB (Interference and U2 internet forums, not so much in general.). Revised history, much ?
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Numb amused people, but at the time Zooropa was seen as "weird" in America. On later tours Bono tried to gently convince us that we had missed something by playing Stay acoustic and talking about how it was okay to be "arty" sometimes. "New colors, you know!" Then they re-did The First Time for MDH to show it wasn't so weird after all. They put a lot of work after the fact to convince the world, the US at least, there were gems in Zooropa.

I'm not talking about how these albums get "talked about" decades later. This is how it was in 1993, 1994, etc. Zooropa became cool, became almost seen as AB disc two, many years later.

If R&H was a misfire, it was the most successful misfire in the history of shooting! Heck, 4 of the songs from it made their way onto U218!
 
Listen to the Mexico City POPMART show and see what a speach Bono gives AT POPMART before Stay to try and convince the Mexican fans to forgive them for having been too "arty" during Zooropa, and to give the material a chance! That's in comparison to POP, Zooropa was seen as arty!
 
Niceman said:
Listen to the Mexico City POPMART show and see what a speach Bono gives AT POPMART before Stay to try and convince the Mexican fans to forgive them for having been too "arty" during Zooropa, and to give the material a chance! That's in comparison to POP, Zooropa was seen as arty!
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They did not play Stay on Popmart.
 
JT and R&H obviously dominated the 80's Best of. Doesn't change the fact how R&H is seen in the grand scheme of U2's career.

And "arty" is a good description for Zooropa. It felt more like a stating a fact, rather than apologizing. U2 is a band that has listened to its fans over the years, and after R&H every album is like a reaction to the fan opinion.
 
The Panther said:
That's absolutely right. I think younger fans (bless 'em) who weren't there at the time have a distorted perception -- partly based on U2's own self-mythologizing -- that R&H was this big disaster, when in fact it was one of the most successful albums of the 80s by a rock band, in commercial terms. Now, in artistic terms we could debate its relative merits (I personally think the studio cuts are the best work they've ever done), and the whole concept of the live + studio + film project was a bit of overkill, but none of this harmed the band's profile at the time. If anything, it got bigger. After R&H, they were the world's biggest band, with the biggest profile.

Pop was a completely different story, as it failed to generate much interest at all from the mainstream, and got a mixed reaction from the committed fanbase. It clearly did not galvanize the masses as the 1988/89 stuff did, and it greatly lessened U2's "profile".
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Spot-on. Pretty much every word. I'm not sure I'd say the studio tracks are "the best work they've ever done", but I'd certainly say they are among the best. I've never understood the so-called R&H "backlash"...at least in terms of the actual musical content of the album. The studio tracks on R&H, collected as a stand alone record, IMO are better than at least half, if not more, of the songs in U2's catalogue.

Also, it seems to me that with R&H U2 distanced themselves from the image they created during that period, but not the music, whereas w/POP they distanced themselves from the music itself (hence "New" versions in the 90/00 album).
 
U2girl said:
JT and R&H obviously dominated the 80's Best of. Doesn't change the fact how R&H is seen in the grand scheme of U2's career.

And "arty" is a good description for Zooropa. It felt more like a stating a fact, rather than apologizing.
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By whom? Historians or the people at the time? "It's okay to be arty sometimes" right after "thanks for sticking with us" sure sounded apologetic to me! I believe he was trying to get people to give the song a second chance, in stripped down form.

And I would have through October, Gloria, or a bunch of other songs really belonged on the Best Of more than one or two of the R&H songs - but the R&H songs are very popular. They were what U2 co. thought were more likely to sell the disc.
 
By history, yes. It is okay to be arty sometimes, agreed. Thanks for sticking with us, also agreed.
Stay is a beautiful song that deserves more attention despite being on a record that got less attention. I think that was the point they were making.

October is a hidden track on the Best of. Switch it with Gloria and the 80's Best of is complete.
 
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