Plans for the new song

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:yes:

For a lot of people in America, seeing U2 will be one of the few expensive events they go to all year. So being told at that concert that you should give your money to others will leave a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths. Americans would love to help people around the world but they have to get by themselves.

Are you kidding? Are you fucking kidding?

The poorest American in attendance at a U2 concert is wealthier than the average African by a factor of THOUSANDS. The poorest American in attendance at a U2 concert, as proven by their very attendance at said concert, has a purchasing power greater than over a sixth of the planet's population by a factor of THOUSANDS.

Whatever financial concerns any American able to attend a U2 concert has, they just completely pale into insignificance and irrelevance compared to the people Bono's talking about. Bono may not have the right solutions, and his tendency to ramble may reduce the effectiveness of his message, but for god's sake, trying to argue some prattle about it leaving a "bad taste" because "Americans would love to help people around the world but they have to get by themselves" is downright offensive.
 
:yes:

For a lot of people in America, seeing U2 will be one of the few expensive events they go to all year. So being told at that concert that you should give your money to others will leave a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths. Americans would love to help people around the world but they have to get by themselves.

I'm in agreement with you. I don't care how selfish it sounds, it IS a terrible time in America right now, and NO it's not anywhere near as bad as it is in Africa, but the fact is, people are seeing U2 live to forget about their problems, most likely, causing financial problems for themselves doing so, but that's their prerogative. Right now, the US economy is in no shape for people like Bono to expect us to donate to ever single charity in existence. (exaggeration) the point is. I agree with Headache, it's ok for Bono to ask, but he should probably be more careful about it this time.
 
:yes:

For a lot of people in America, seeing U2 will be one of the few expensive events they go to all year. So being told at that concert that you should give your money to others will leave a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths. Americans would love to help people around the world but they have to get by themselves.


So...they're barely getting by, and of course they'd love to help if they could, but they're seeing a few expensive concerts this year. I totally see your point. :doh:
 
So...they're barely getting by, and of course they'd love to help if they could, but they're seeing a few expensive concerts this year. I totally see your point. :doh:

No you're not seeing the point at all. All Headache was saying in the first place was that people are not exactly in the best position to donate as much as Bono seems to want from people. And the only thing is, it would be for the best from a political standpoint to change his TACTICS not stop asking all together.
 
:up: :up: :up:


I'm sorry, but the plight of Wall Streeter's agonizing over losing their retirement funds whilst still plunking down money for a U2 concert/music is just simply laughable (sorry if I misunderstood you Headache). If they don't like the message, let them stay away. Or listen to another band. U2 shouldn't waver in their approach because of any notion of risk of those types tuning out, imo.

a whole lot more than just "wall streeters" are losing their retirement funds. your average middle class soccer mom and dad who have 2 kids in college and another in high school are feeling this, too.

again... i'm not saying they (or moreso HE) should change for anyone. all i'm saying is that even if you have a reasonable and legitimate plea to people... telling them they need to give their money to someone else at a time when they themselves are struggling... while charging 100 bucks a ticket, mind you... can, right or wrong, lead to some backlash.

obviously bono's smart enough to figure this out and i'm sure will adjust his same old soap box speach accordingly if the financial situation in america remains the same or gets worse by the time they are on tour. he's always understood the hypocrisy of an uber-wealthy rock star asking other people for their hard earned, and has mentioned this many a time.

i'd love to see him make a RED agreement with ticketmaster, or live nation or whomever will be selling the tickets next tour and have both ticketmaster and the band it's self lose a percentage of what's paid by customers to the cause. that'll really be putting his money where his mouth is. pearl jam does it... 2 dollars from every ticket goes to a local charity. springsteen always has people collecting for food kitchen's at every show, and mentions it during the encore.
 
I'm in agreement with you. I don't care how selfish it sounds, it IS a terrible time in America right now, and NO it's not anywhere near as bad as it is in Africa, but the fact is, people are seeing U2 live to forget about their problems, most likely, causing financial problems for themselves doing so, but that's their prerogative. Right now, the US economy is in no shape for people like Bono to expect us to donate to ever single charity in existence. (exaggeration) the point is. I agree with Headache, it's ok for Bono to ask, but he should probably be more careful about it this time.

Neither you nor Screwtape understand what it is Bono has been asking for, clearly. If Americans want to solve their economic problems, it has zero to do with helping or not helping Africa. What a load of crap. Do you think Bono's asking Bush to reduce social programs for Americans in need to send aid to Africa? I be willing to wager not. I can imagine him suggesting, however, that maybe they might want to consider reallocation the tiniest of fractions of what they spend on, oh, "defense", sure. Or maybe electioneering, or whatever the hell it is they call it.

And none of that has anything to do with the music consumer who decides that he'd might as well spend his $5 a month sub service a product which has some benefit to someone else, after all, he was going to spend it with XYZOnline anyways, right? Cmon!
 
i'd love to see him make a RED agreement with ticketmaster, or live nation or whomever will be selling the tickets next tour and have both ticketmaster and the band it's self lose a percentage of what's paid by customers to the cause. that'll really be putting his money where his mouth is. pearl jam does it... 2 dollars from every ticket goes to a local charity. springsteen always has people collecting for food kitchen's at every show, and mentions it during the encore.

I think you've made a valid point here. :up:
 
Neither you nor Screwtape understand what it is Bono has been asking for, clearly. If Americans want to solve their economic problems, it has zero to do with helping or not helping Africa. What a load of crap. Do you think Bono's asking Bush to reduce social programs for Americans in need to send aid to Africa? I be willing to wager not. I can imagine him suggesting, however, that maybe they might want to consider reallocation the tiniest of fractions of what they spend on, oh, "defense", sure. Or maybe electioneering, or whatever the hell it is they call it.

And none of that has anything to do with the music consumer who decides that he'd might as well spend his $5 a month sub service a product which has some benefit to someone else, after all, he was going to spend it with XYZOnline anyways, right? Cmon!

Mmmk...so you're not really understanding where I'm coming from. I'm more than willing to pay for this music service. I love to help in whatever tiny way I can, and pray that it won't be in vein. The things that go on in this world are terrible, and in Africa, it's the worst. And I hate it.

And I like, and want for Bono to be successful in his attempt to help this situation. SO what I am saying is that, there are people out there in America, who are NOT smarter than the average bear, and they, though they are having financial problems, will probably still go see U2. And while they are there, they are going to be told about all the things they need to do to help people in Africa, meanwhile, like Headache said, they are having their own financial problems. They might not take what Bono has to say with an open mind. IF bono were to change his tactics from the way he was doing things, people would probably recieve his message better.

THIS is all I'm trying to say. I WANT for things to change, I WANT for things to get better, and I WANT for Bono to be successful in all that he does.

Am I getting through to you Gabe?
 
And while they are there, they are going to be told about all the things they need to do to help people in Africa, meanwhile, like Headache said, they are having their own financial problems. They might not take what Bono has to say with an open mind. IF bono were to change his tactics from the way he was doing things, people would probably recieve his message better.

THIS is all I'm trying to say. I WANT for things to change, I WANT for things to get better, and I WANT for Bono to be successful in all that he does.

Am I getting through to you Gabe?

No you're not, because you're avoiding the fact that Bono decidedly didn't ask for money out of your own pocket - any more than your taxman did. From what I heard at the concerts I attended, he asked you to support him pressuring your government to better spend the money that you already gave it. He also asked you to let pharma co's know in no uncertain terms that making generic drugs available was a bit more important then their bloated monopolies and profit margins. It was the perfect tactic, and it couldn't possibly be any less offensive of a way to ask for support for a cause.

I really don't know if you were at the same shows I was, but it was the same band, right?
 
No you're not, because you're avoiding the fact that Bono decidedly didn't ask for money out of your own pocket - any more than your taxman did. From what I heard at the concerts I attended, he asked you to support him pressuring your government to better spend the money that you already gave it. He also asked you to let pharma co's know in no uncertain terms that making generic drugs available was a bit more important then their bloated monopolies and profit margins. It was the perfect tactic, and it couldn't possibly be any less offensive of a way to ask for support for a cause.

I really don't know if you were at the same shows I was, but it was the same band, right?

The problem with trying to pressure the government at this point is that with what it will cost to help out Wall Street, the future president won't be able to pay for many if any new programs for the country let alone have anything left for foreign aid. :shrug:
 
The problem with trying to pressure the government at this point is that with what it will cost to help out Wall Street, the future president won't be able to pay for many if any new programs for the country let alone have anything left for foreign aid. :shrug:

I'm sorry, that's a cop out imo. You're basically throwing your hands up in the air if they can't figure out how to spend your money properly/equitably - and for cryin out loud, the aid we're talking about represents the tiniest of fractions of nation's budgets here. It's literally a drop in the bucket relatively speaking. Because make no mistake, there are trillions to spend, and they are spending it, alot of it really foolishly. That's all I wanted to say on it, I hope Bono keeps up the good work. :up:
 
All I think is that Bono is losing all the credibility as a political actor. And for the public that will mean that U2 loses credibility too because (for the general public) U2 is Bono.

Or Bono radically changes the way he promotes politics (stop being populist!) or he must stop to deteriorate his public image, both as a political actor and as a singer/band frontman.

I'm not forgetting that Bono said that Durão Barroso (who's on top of the UE commission) is the right guy for Europe just because he did put aside for Africa €1500 M that were not spent in PAC (common agricultural european politices).
Maybe Bono doesn't remember that Durão Barroso was Prime-Minister of Portugal and asked demission (in a critical time) because some UE asshole offered this new job (more money for you pocket, Durão!), and leaving Portugal in a political crisis of economical deficit and without a Prime Minister (some kind of clown took his place for a few months... who made things even worse) ...only with a late-warn, just a few days before going to Bruxels.
Is really this the guy that Europe needs?

Does anyone still care about what Bono says about Africa and humanitary causes, mixing it with his absurdities, with stuff like RED or the ONE campaign (that people just don't trust) and... after the bad publicity of moving the taxes location to the Netherlands (yeah, people still remember this today, Bono!)?

I guess not.
 
The people - the decision makers - have been caring about what he has to say for the last 10 years or so.
Luckily their instinct isn't "A guy in glasses wants money for the poor, the rich rock star asshole" or "I better check if he or his band donate anything, and pay their taxes".
 
That's not the point? I'm not talking about U2 giving money away for charity and paying taxes.

But Bono as a political actor is not credible. People (and the press hasn't been helping the way they publish things) started to give less credit and to dislike when Bono comes around with his boring and uninteresting talk about politics and Africa.
I don't know anybody outside the U2 fanbase that trusts RED or ONE or DATA. People don't trust it, and they don't trust in Bono as a politician.

Obviously - and with the "help" of the "play safe mode" the band has been in the last years, no matter they sold 10M with HTDAAB or 12M with ATYCLB or they have a lot of sucessful singles this decade - U2's image has suffered a lot with it. I have never heard so much complaints about U2 (and about how uninteresting they are, mixing it with "Bono's boring politics") as today.
 
That's not the point? I'm not talking about U2 giving money away for charity and paying taxes.

But Bono as a political actor is not credible. People (and the press hasn't been helping the way they publish things) started to give less credit and to dislike when Bono comes around with his boring and uninteresting talk about politics and Africa.
I don't know anybody outside the U2 fanbase that trusts RED or ONE or DATA. People don't trust it, and they don't trust in Bono as a politician.

Obviously - and with the "help" of the "play safe mode" the band has been in the last years, no matter they sold 10M with HTDAAB or 12M with ATYCLB or they have a lot of sucessful singles this decade - U2's image has suffered a lot with it. I have never heard so much complaints about U2 (and about how uninteresting they are, mixing it with "Bono's boring politics") as today.

Please don't posit your conjecture and "no one I know" anecdotes as fact. I could easily say the exact opposite based on "people I know". How does what you are saying deserve any credibility whatsoever?
 
I was pretty disappointed when I checked this thread--I thought we had some info on when the new single was coming out. Instead we have...this.
 
I was pretty disappointed when I checked this thread--I thought we had some info on when the new single was coming out. Instead we have...this.

Exactly, I've got to stop checking this forum, if there's real news about a U2 album it'll make real media outlets, and all this rumor digging does is lead to anger over delays.
 
No you're not, because you're avoiding the fact that Bono decidedly didn't ask for money out of your own pocket - any more than your taxman did. From what I heard at the concerts I attended, he asked you to support him pressuring your government to better spend the money that you already gave it. He also asked you to let pharma co's know in no uncertain terms that making generic drugs available was a bit more important then their bloated monopolies and profit margins. It was the perfect tactic, and it couldn't possibly be any less offensive of a way to ask for support for a cause.

I really don't know if you were at the same shows I was, but it was the same band, right?

Good post.

Honestly, Bono has never asked you to give sums of money that match your ticket cost to his charity work...heck, he's never even sent out a collection plate. People believe that because it's a stereotype of sorts (and, let's face it, this is wholly about money, though not so much the money of the average American citizen), but the money we have is chump change, and he knows that. To achieve his objective on a large scale, awareness needs to be spread to the highest order that foreign aid needs to become a priority, and he encourages us to spread the word also. At our level, this is less about money as it is about knowledge, and the trillions that get thrown around each year are the main topic of discussion, not a $100 donation out of your checkbook.

Of course, you could argue that our money is MOST DEFINITELY involved in this, as it's all going to taxes anyway. That's certainly fair. However, if you actually read up on where your tax money is going at this point in time, the choices suddenly become any of the following:

A. Research to discover new ways to utilize tiny screws in outer space
B. A new muzzle for Cheney's rifle
C. Road workers who spend more time sipping coffee and getting batteries thrown at them than fixing the road
D. Antiretroviral drugs for the sick and impoverished

I'm supporting Bono on this one.
 
I like when people bump old threads. I like how people start quoting and continuing old arguments. But the person who did bump this only bumped it because they wanted to know what is up with RED music service.
 
Please don't posit your conjecture and "no one I know" anecdotes as fact. I could easily say the exact opposite based on "people I know". How does what you are saying deserve any credibility whatsoever?

I'm not talking about "people I know". I'm talking about going to an international forum about whatever and then reading the comments of people out of the fanbase for an article about Bono's comments of Africa/politics (for instance). Try to read it. 75% of them will negative against Bono and his status as a political actor.
 
Good post.
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Of course, you could argue that our money is MOST DEFINITELY involved in this, as it's all going to taxes anyway. That's certainly fair. However, if you actually read up on where your tax money is going at this point in time, the choices suddenly become any of the following:

A. Research to discover new ways to utilize tiny screws in outer space
B. A new muzzle for Cheney's rifle
C. Road workers who spend more time sipping coffee and getting batteries thrown at them than fixing the road
D. Antiretroviral drugs for the sick and impoverished

I'm supporting Bono on this one.

Thanks LM. It really does seem silly, the way alot of tax money is spent. There's some info in the Clinton Summit thread that I think worth repeating here, as it speaks directly to earlier comments re the economy, Wall Street, etc..Quote:

Clinton asked Bono whether the current financial crisis would affect the ability to meet global goals to improve life for the world's poorest people — a cause central to the musician's humanitarian work.

Bono questioned nations' funding priorities, referring to the proposed federal bailout of the financial industry.

"It is extraordinary to me that you can find $700 billion to save Wall Street and the entire G-8 can't find $25 billion to save 25,000 children who die every day of preventable disease and hunger," he said.

"Bankruptcy is a serious business," Bono said, but he added, "this is moral bankruptcy."


Looks like he's not going to be pulling any punches. Good for him :up:
 
GVOX, LemonMelon, EXCELLENT posts!

Aygo, let 75% of people you talk to or people in forums like these only for international politics all disagree with Bono as a political actor or think its stupid. Who cares? The facts: One, DATA, Red are all effective and have contributed greatly to the fight against global disease and extreme poverty. I get emails from ONE petitioning me to support some piece of common sense, non controversial bipartisan piece of legislation that merely needs the assurances that people care about and are behind our leaderson this issue. The amounts, in the grand scheme of our federal budget ,are truly crumbs from our table. In fact, its common this or that legislation on education or access to clean water in Africa involves about $15 million in a federal budget of more than 3 trillion. All of these petitions come back about a week later with a thank you and an update on how the legislation sailed through and was signed by the President.

As a result of Red, money we spend is going directly to the Global fund set up to deal with disease and extreme poverty. DATA has been lobbying governments and explaining the issues to people. Many, many politicians, including Presidents, most notably Clinton and current Bush have talked about their prior level of support and interest in the issue being greatly increased after having consulted with and heard Bono's arguments, both practical and moral.

Jesse Helms supported almost no foreign aid, and certainly none that benefited AIDS victims. We could go on, Tony Blair, Paul Martin, many other world leaders have met with Bono and come away convinced that this was a practical and moral expenditure of public funds that had the support of citizens of many nations. These are the people that actually control where all of this money we throw around goes attesting to Bono's effectiveness as a world leader. What holds more sway, them or people in "forums?"

Bono has earned his status as a world leader. Many objective observers, experts in their respective fields, have testified to the fact that Bono knows as much about health policy as a drug researcher, as much about international trade and finance as a finance minister, as much about budgets as a senior congressional official, etc. He does his homework, gets educated on the issues and uses that education to further his agenda. He does not come in and say "hey, I am a rock star so you should listen to me on this," he does it on the power of his own arguments and his own merit. Bono uses his fame to gain access to world leaders, but it is his knowledge combined with his passion and commitment to the causes he believes in that ultimately influences their decision making.

The bailout example is perfect: Bono had the most coherent statement on that yet to come out of anyone in a position of authority!! Yes, Chris Dodd is doing a great job of not accepting a blank, unaccountable check, but he has not brought up what is fundamentally wrong from an economic and moral standpoint with giving $700 billion of taxpayer money to very wealthy people who, for a lack of a better term, are getting it because they f**ed up so bad! Anyone who thinks the American economy can not live without adding 700 billion to our national debt to take on bad debt that will never become profitable needs to get in touch with me about selling them the Brooklyn Bridge. The bigger risk is putting all this on the credit card; the smaller risk is a few more banks fail due to mortgage defaults that are already happening. Less of 2 evils is let them fail, but I digress.

Once again, the people you talk to can think whatever they want about Bono as politician, whether its a good thing or not, takes away from music or not, trivializes the issue, etc but the OBJECTIVE FACTS prove them wrong. The work Bono is doing has had an enormous impact on the positive actions taken by world leaders against AIDS/Poverty from Clinton's debt relief to the creation of the global fund to the G8 commitments to the One campaign. Bono's activism, DATA, ONE and RED have all been incredibly succesful- regardless of what some(many of whom have their own agendas and resent being overshadowed by a celebrity who is also a capitalist) would like to believe.
 
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