Overproduction worries? [discuss]

The friendliest place on the web for anyone that follows U2.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
Regarding production, does anyone notice similarities between these clips and Paul Simon's Surprise album, and what Eno did for him and his "reinvention"? The production is slick and modern, with crystal clear pockets of sound and the like, that was somewhat of a shock coming from Mr. Simon... but at the end of the day, they were some really amazing tunes! So on the one hand you could call them "overproduced," i.e. thick layers and textures, but on the other hand, the more relevant question is does the production DISTRACT or DETRACT from the core song? To give a counter example, I would say the production in HTDAAB sometimes detracts from the song, and those were pretty stripped down mixes compared to No Line's production...
 
Regarding production, does anyone notice similarities between these clips and Paul Simon's Surprise album, and what Eno did for him and his "reinvention"? The production is slick and modern, with crystal clear pockets of sound and the like, that was somewhat of a shock coming from Mr. Simon... but at the end of the day, they were some really amazing tunes! So on the one hand you could call them "overproduced," i.e. thick layers and textures, but on the other hand, the more relevant question is does the production DISTRACT or DETRACT from the core song? To give a counter example, I would say the production in HTDAAB sometimes detracts from the song, and those were pretty stripped down mixes compared to No Line's production...

Bomb's production was so slick but at the same time there wasn't much to it so it was just boring. Listen to Up by Peter Gabriel. That has probably the most crystal clear production I've ever heard but there's so many layers to it that it still sounds completely amazing. That's what I want for this album.

Of course I doubt this will have the sound depth of a Peter Gabriel album. He has probably the best mixed albums I've ever heard.
 
:ohmy: i haven't heard these...are they worth it? I love Pop more than anything ever.


I'm curious about the Discotheque demo too, I started googling it. All I can find are torrents with huge collections of things I already have or don't really want.
 
Good discussion, positive points for once instead of bashing. Personally, I feel the last time the band just let themselves go and made an album was Pop. I know, I know, it was rushed, unfinished, not liked, etc. However, it just feels like an album from front to back. ATYCLB feels like a collection of songs all trying to be singles to me. HTDAAB has 4 good tracks on it, 1 decent tune, and a bunch of filler. Again though, an album doesn't need to have 10 outstanding tracks. However, it needs to fit together and have a flow to it. I feel like their last two albums lack that and I believe part of it is them over-cooking, overproducing, or overthinking themselves. The album delay makes me wonder if they had rawer stuff like Native Son that they were going to throw out, but then went back and commercialized and polished them up too much. We shall see.
 
:ohmy: i haven't heard these...are they worth it? I love Pop more than anything ever.

Discotheque demo was pretty famous AFAIK... I think the story goes that U2 had a camera which was broadcasting to the internet in their studio, and somehow someone was able to get the audio from that camera to record a demo version of discotheque before it came out-- its one of the reasons Pop was rushed. And I think it was one of the first times a song was leaked early on the Internet.

The Wake Up Dead Man demo is on the Axtung Beibi outtakes.
 
Discotheque demo was pretty famous AFAIK... I think the story goes that U2 had a camera which was broadcasting to the internet in their studio, and somehow someone was able to get the audio from that camera to record a demo version of discotheque before it came out-- its one of the reasons Pop was rushed. And I think it was one of the first times a song was leaked early on the Internet.

The Wake Up Dead Man demo is on the Axtung Beibi outtakes.

Ah that's cool, thanks for the info :up:

Have you heard the demo of disco? is it any good? do you know where I could find it possibly?
 
The other night, as I began ramping up for the final few weeks before the new album, I began listening more to the boys. As I was listening to "Native Son", the alt. version of "All Because of You", "Mercy", I began thinkin, wow, this stuff was what they should have released on HTDAAB. There is such a rawness there. It sounds spontaneous, honest, in your face.

It seems like, since POP, they have been so worried about the public's reception, they've become contrived in their production of songs. Almost like they write these rock songs, but then spend two years figuring out how they can turn it into the most commercial-sounding, ear-catchy pop-tune. This isn't always bad, but I think their recent stuff comes off as contrived, or poppy. For example, GYOB sounds way too "planned" in my opinion.

From the 30 second clips vs. the beach clips (I know we're not working with much) has anyone noticed the same sort of changes from "Native Son" to "Vertigo"? Is anyone also worried about overproduction?


Nothing much to add, this post sums up my thoughts exactly for a number of years now. Native Son, Mercy, and Smile all get a big thumbs up from me for being just raw great music, not overproduced. Overthinking things since Pop has definitely become a problem for U2 imo.
 
Bomb's production was so slick but at the same time there wasn't much to it so it was just boring. Listen to Up by Peter Gabriel. That has probably the most crystal clear production I've ever heard but there's so many layers to it that it still sounds completely amazing. That's what I want for this album.

Of course I doubt this will have the sound depth of a Peter Gabriel album. He has probably the best mixed albums I've ever heard.

this is exactly what I hope for! That album is so layered, you hear something new each listen! Bomb had the same clarity, but not the depth...I hope this album is as layered as I dont think it will be as dark (read rough) as, say, AB for instance.

I 100% agree with the comment above as regards as over production being a false term. AB was produced deliberatly to sound as it did. ATYCLB and HTDAAB were not over produced they were also deliberately made to sound that way.
 
Actually, I think it will be a mix between the two styles.

The clip of unknown caller sounds very raw to me, in the sense of starting with the band noodling in the intro to the song and slowly falling into place (a bit like Rise up). It allegedly comes from a live performance in Fez. Moment of surrender should be the same, despite the plastic-y sounds of the intro.

Boots certainly sound slike it has a lot of production (but not necessarily in a bad way, it does not sound cluttered or overburdened with overdubs). It sounds very similar to the beach clip, really (apart from the bridge).

Of course "rawer" does not always sound better than "very produced".

WTSHNN and Pride both were polished, replayed, rearranged, etc... and still they have a very immediate, very live sound.

Anyway, we will soon know...
 
After hearing the WM clips I have some real worries:

-The album has a sound like a complex version of Bomb. It could be good, but it doesn't grab me. It is too shiny.

-I am not exited about Edge's new sound. The mix of chimes, echo, and forced-heavy sounding distortion is not coherent.

-Breathe is very troubling. I loved the beach clip. The WM clip sounds like the riff is doubled by an Enosynth which sounds like a cello, not liking it. It reminds me of the awful synth in Original of the Species which just about ruined that song.

-Most of all, Fez sounds ridiculous. I'm am hoping this is mildest part of the intro before the song kicks in. It sounds like a videogame.

-the "wicked" percussion sounds more like a Hookah lounge bar soundtrack.

There are several other things which are worrisome, but in general, my expectations have been knocked down several pegs by the WM clips, sorry to say.
 
im not too worried about overproduction here, the clips sound good and eno/lanois did a good job.

i'm more worried about u2 themselves...taking all that raw stuff they did in FEZ that sounded so good (beach clips, lanois documentary) and changing it to sound more HTDAAB-like.
 
They sound about as over-produced as Pop did and that's fine by me.

The thing is that U2 doesn't get over-produced. From the get go they have heavily relied on tech. Indie 4 track bands that rely on their garage appeal get over-produced. Not U2.
 
Wow; you mean it might sound closer to Bomb than we were led to believe?


Damn, I wish I predicted that 8 months ago.........
 
I am not even going to comment on how the album is and production and so on. It's just very dumb to do so when I only heard 30 second clips IE less then 10% of the total running time of the album. Just plain dumb to come to conclusions about anything don't you think?
 
-Breathe is very troubling. I loved the beach clip. The WM clip sounds like the riff is doubled by an Enosynth which sounds like a cello, not liking it. It reminds me of the awful synth in Original of the Species which just about ruined that song.

It is a cello.
 
The Discotheque demo was an early radio rip from what i recall... It wasn't quite finished, so the version on Pop was slightly different.

Wake Up Dead Man on the AB outtakes wasn't the same song as the one that appeared on Pop, they used the title only. So it can;'t really be called a demo for the song that appeared on Pop.
 
Wow; you mean it might sound closer to Bomb than we were led to believe?


Damn, I wish I predicted that 8 months ago.........

Sorry but looks like you may be dissapointed (well am sure you will find something to moan about anyway), the reviews of 3 Aussie girls over on U2.com, who are fans and have actually heard the album, say the new one sounds NOTHING like the last 2, but am sure you will say it does no matter what.

btw U2.com seems to be in some sort of "changeover" at the min, or thats how it seems.
 
Can I just say that from a psychological standpoint, the only reason people feel boots is the most out of place/worst/loudest/weakest/etc song of what theyve heard of the new album is because they've already heard it before. Had it been any of the other tracks, X track would be the most out of place/worst/loudest/weakest/etc and Boots would be herald as an amazing track that people can't wait to hear.

That's just how the brain works. It's rather amusing to watch it in action.
 
It's a mixed bag. Vertigo was such a huge improvement from Native Son, but I would agreee that SYCMIOYO was a far superior song before they polished it. The version of OOTS that Bono and Edge sang live for Steve Jobs at the Apple event with just piano and vocals was absolutely gorgeous. The album arrives and the song is an absolute production MESS! Biggest U2 disappointment ever in my opinion. U2 has a "gift" for fiddling too much with a great song and just destroying it.

BUT...personally, I'm absolutely over the moon with what I've heard from this album. I think the melodies are nuanced, the production layered, but where Bomb was cluttered, this sounds dense. And where it should be sparse (Snow, Cedars) it is. That tells me they maybe learned their lesson from OOTS.
 
At the beach, while recording the beachclips, it occured to me that the songs all sounded pretty "normal". Like, just drums, bass, guitar, vocals. Which actually made it kinda dull. It has always been U2's style to finetune things while producing.

U2 wouldn't sound like U2 when they didn't add cello's, weird sounds and all those different layers. So I really don't get all these "worries" that people have. Either you like, or you don't. And if you don't, there's always the live versions that will probably please you more then.
 
At the beach, while recording the beachclips, it occured to me that the songs all sounded pretty "normal". Like, just drums, bass, guitar, vocals. Which actually made it kinda dull. It has always been U2's style to finetune things while producing.

U2 wouldn't sound like U2 when they didn't add cello's, weird sounds and all those different layers. So I really don't get all these "worries" that people have. Either you like, or you don't. And if you don't, there's always the live versions that will probably please you more then.

very true.

Thats why I think its a disservice for the fans to hear anything but the final incarnation of a song. U2 are known for overhauling or completely dumping parts or entire songs at any time during the process of creating an album. Who are we to judge that an original part was better, or the first version was better? We don't know what sounds they were after....or what mood they were going for. I've never created a platinum selling album....why would I know more about the album process then them.
 
Sorry but looks like you may be dissapointed (well am sure you will find something to moan about anyway), the reviews of 3 Aussie girls over on U2.com, who are fans and have actually heard the album, say the new one sounds NOTHING like the last 2, but am sure you will say it does no matter what.


No. you're mistaking me again. If it sounds like Bomb in terms of layering and production, etc. I'm fine with that. I don't have a problem with most of the production on Bomb; the only problem with that record I have is a couple of the tunes.
I think based on the WM clips there's going to be alot of great songs on this record. But, also based on those clips, it did seems to have the Bomb-like shine of layers and production.
I do agree we won't know for sure until the album is out.

However, I do concede that some people may hear it as a complete departure, while others may hear it as a continuum. Personally, I don't hear that much difference in production between POP and ATYCLB.
A little more stripped down? Yeah....a little. But not that much.
 
very true.

Thats why I think its a disservice for the fans to hear anything but the final incarnation of a song. U2 are known for overhauling or completely dumping parts or entire songs at any time during the process of creating an album. Who are we to judge that an original part was better, or the first version was better? We don't know what sounds they were after....or what mood they were going for. I've never created a platinum selling album....why would I know more about the album process then them.

I don't think its a disservice, but it's true that one must understand exactly what a "work in progress" is.
 
Back
Top Bottom