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i think we have to say that the reviews are decidedly mixed. this could be an album that grows over time and has a reevaluation at the end of the year and people will say that they loved it all along, or maybe not.

i hope U2 aren't setting themselves up for another debacle by booking a stadium-only tour in the US when the album is being met with less-than-rave reviews. i think with a band of their stature, there has to be a reason to continue to care about them -- and the reason to care would be a universally acclaimed album. that's not happening right now. while some of the big reviews have been positive, there's more than enough negative out there.

it's going to be interesting to see what happens over 2009.
 
Be careful :madwife:

I know people.

:lmao:
Well played. ;)

Mr Mac -

A. What is your favorite song of all time? You've peaked my curiosity!

B. If only you knew me...I am the greatest advocate for music being a completely objective experience! After all, we are all hearing the same song, and that's objective! I know what you'll say: that's where it ends. But I think not.

Regardless, in this case, if it bothers you or not is subjective. But, like I always say, words like "Love" and "hate" are subjective, "good" and "Bad" are objective. One may not be bothered by "bad" lyrics, but they're still "bad."

I know I know, now you'll say, but whether or not I think they're bad is subjective. Well, fooey!

A: Elevation
B: Well, it's a difficult matter. There's several ways of how you can look at a song's lyric. A lyric can be "bad", of course. But what makes it "bad" for you, and eventually most people, is what matters. For example, you have a problem with the cliches. The cliches make the lyric suck for you, and of course, the genral consensus is that a lyric full of cliches is "bad". That's objective, but there's so many ways I, or anyone else, could look at it and maybe that cliche-full lyric can become something with a meaning. Hell, Breathe's lyric "Doc says you're fine, or dying" pisses me, but who knows if one day I'll get it.
I can say that a song suck cause the melody doesn't please me. There's only way you can hear a melody. But even in that case, a song can grow on you sometimes. So you can see how this subject is something complicated. It's something too personal. Nirvana's "Nevermind" didn't received all the praise it gets now at first. Today it is considered at least "good" in serious musical standards, but why it wasn't considered "good" at first.
The truth is that I don't know... I don't freakin know. Good and bad are objective, but I don't think they can apply when it comes to music. I think.
We're all hearing the same song, but we're not the same. Breathe is not that great to me, but it is for a large portion of this forum. Who's right? I think you can see my point.
 
While the site hasn't gone public yet, I did find the Metacritic listing for the album...it's currently at an 84 which means it will be starred (the equivalent of "Best New Music" from Pitchfork)...but keep in mind that publications like Pitchfork still haven't been included in the tally, and there's no way this album will get an 8.4 from them.

Metacritic - U2: No Line On The Horizon


How To Dismantle An Atomic Bomb: 79 (69 from readers)
All That You Can't Leave Behind: 80 (69 from readers)
 
A (somewhat) positive review by Alex Veiga of Associated Press

"No Line On The Horizon" (Interscope Records)

On the title track of U2's latest album, "No Line On The Horizon," frontman Bono sings "Every night I have the same dream/I'm hatching some plot, scheming some scheme."

The Irish rockers' 12th studio album reflects some heavy scheming on the part of the band, and its longtime producers, to mine wider sonic territory that the band has explored since the 1990s.

The result is an album that feels more compelling in sound and less strident in message than U2's previous two efforts this decade, which offered some bright spots but seemed crafted with a U2-by-the-numbers approach.

The achievement of "No Line" is due to the handiwork of U2's recording studio midwives: Brian Eno, Daniel Lanois and Steve Lillywhite, who have had a hand in shaping nearly every U2 album.

On "No Line ...," Eno and Lanois play a more hands-on role, meriting the duo co-songwriting credits with Bono and the rest of U2 - guitarist The Edge, bassist Adam Clayton and drummer Larry Mullen Jr. - on all but four of the album's 11 tracks.

"No Line ... " falls short of the wholesale reinvention that U2 underwent on 1991's "Achtung Baby," but in its best moments showcases a refreshing return to musical exploration for a band that released its debut album 29 years ago.

The driving-but-disjointed lead-off single, "Get On Your Boots," has underwhelmed some U2 followers, but there is reassurance - the track is not representative of the album.

One standout track is "Magnificent." It begins with a brooding guitar line, then weaves into a dance beat backed over layered keyboards and explodes into shimmering, The Edge-trademark guitar fireworks. Bono raises it up a notch, wailing "Only love/Only love can leave such a mark/But only love/Only love can heal such a scar."

The track's anthemic build and release is no less effective than the band's signature stadium-pleaser "Where The Streets Have No Name." But one stretch of lyrics where Bono declares he was "born to sing for you/I didn't have a choice but to lift you up," will do little to allay critics who view the singer as a self-appointed saviour-megalomaniac.

Another gem is "Moment of Surrender," a mid-tempo ballad that clocks in at longer than seven minutes. With a rolling bass line and church organ sound as a backdrop, Bono delivers a soulful, passionate vocal as he sings "We set ourselves on fire/Oh God, do not deny her/It's not if I believe in love/But if love believes in me."

Thematically, "No Line ..." finds Bono the lyricist exploring familiar U2 fare: love, hope, God and war, but less directly.

On the surreal rocker "Unknown Caller," which opens with the bird song heard in the open-air space in Fez, Morocco, where it was recorded, Bono sings of a man lost "between the midnight and the dawning/In a place of no consequence or company," and then a sing-along chorus implores him to "Escape yourself and gravity ... Force quit and move to trash" - a nod to Mac computer users?

The message is more straightforward on "I'll Go Crazy If I Don't Go Crazy Tonight," which despite its cumbersome title has U2 making their most unabashed pop song yet.

Just when you think you have a handle on "No Line ...," U2 channels its heretofore unseen funky side with "Stand Up Comedy." The song works overall, but stumbles on some awkward rhyming when Bono sings "Stand up to rock stars/Napoleon is in high heels/Josephine be careful of small men with big ideas."

More satisfying is the album's pivot point, the ambient, electro-rocker "Fez-Being Born."

U2 left the most compelling songs on "No Line ... " on the latter half of the album: The fragile "White As Snow," and the cinematic, spare closer "Cedars Of Lebanon." The song features a half-spoken vocal by Bono delivered from the viewpoint of a war correspondent.

CHECK THIS TRACK OUT: "Breathe" melds some machine gun-vocals by Bono and guitar power chords to create one of the most memorable anthems to come out of the U2 factory.
 
i think we have to say that the reviews are decidedly mixed. this could be an album that grows over time and has a reevaluation at the end of the year and people will say that they loved it all along, or maybe not.

I wouldn't go so far as saying the reviews are decidedly mixed. Pop had mixed reviews. I'd say this album is in general getting positive to very positive reviews, with the expected middling to negative reviews coming from (mostly) expected sources.

By my recollection, U2 has never received unanimous praise for any album, at least since The Joshua Tree. Of course it's hard to be sure, since there was no such thing as Metacritic back then. But U2 has never been a critic's darling like Radiohead.

As far as I am concerned both The Joshua Tree and Achtung Baby became consensus, iconic classics only after a few years had passed since their respective releases. Only time will tell if NLOTH is a classic or not. Critics get it right and wrong about as often as weatherman.
 
I wouldn't go so far as saying the reviews are decidedly mixed. Pop had mixed reviews. I'd say this album is in general getting positive to very positive reviews, with the expected middling to negative reviews coming from (mostly) expected sources.

By my recollection, U2 has never received unanimous praise for any album, at least since The Joshua Tree. Of course it's hard to be sure, since there was no such thing as Metacritic back then. But U2 has never been a critic's darling like Radiohead.

As far as I am concerned both The Joshua Tree and Achtung Baby became consensus, iconic classics only after a few years had passed since their respective releases. Only time will tell if NLOTH is a classic or not. Critics get it right and wrong about as often as weatherman.



all fair points. i suppose i was a bit surprised that the Chicago critics and Time didn't like it more than they did, since Time has always been big supporters.

i was surprised at the metacritic score at the moment -- chances are, it probably won't go up or down too much and likely stay in the upper 70s.

even Joshua Tree -- and, yes, i've gone back and read lots of the reviews -- had some critics hedging their bets and it wasn't until the album came alive with the three singles and the tour that it started to be recognized as a landmark. even Achtung Baby had it's share of caution at the beginning.

maybe i'm just hearing the negative louder than the positive.
 
:lmao:
Well played. ;)



A: Elevation
B: Well, it's a difficult matter. There's several ways of how you can look at a song's lyric. A lyric can be "bad", of course. But what makes it "bad" for you, and eventually most people, is what matters. For example, you have a problem with the cliches. The cliches make the lyric suck for you, and of course, the genral consensus is that a lyric full of cliches is "bad". That's objective, but there's so many ways I, or anyone else, could look at it and maybe that cliche-full lyric can become something with a meaning. Hell, Breathe's lyric "Doc says you're fine, or dying" pisses me, but who knows if one day I'll get it.
I can say that a song suck cause the melody doesn't please me. There's only way you can hear a melody. But even in that case, a song can grow on you sometimes. So you can see how this subject is something complicated. It's something too personal. Nirvana's "Nevermind" didn't received all the praise it gets now at first. Today it is considered at least "good" in serious musical standards, but why it wasn't considered "good" at first.
The truth is that I don't know... I don't freakin know. Good and bad are objective, but I don't think they can apply when it comes to music. I think.
We're all hearing the same song, but we're not the same. Breathe is not that great to me, but it is for a large portion of this forum. Who's right? I think you can see my point.

Doc says you're fine or dying pisses me off because its too Bob Dylan. I think he wrote that before actually.

I think Nevermind was a bit more acclaimed than you're leading on. Rolling Stone sucks ass with their 2 1/2 star review!

Agreed about everything else.
 
I wouldn't go so far as saying the reviews are decidedly mixed. Pop had mixed reviews.

I agree. Let's not get too worried yet. I've gone through the 26 reviews that MetaCritic used for HTDAAB in 2004 (overall score 79/100) and only 9 out of those 26 sources have posted reviews so far.

3 have given higher scores to NLOTH (Rolling Stone, Q, Entertainment Weekly)
2 have given the same score (Uncut, Mojo)
4 have given lower scores to NLOTH (LA Times, NME, Guardian, Drowned In Sound)

There are still A LOT of reviews to go.
 
Doc says you're fine or dying pisses me off because its too Bob Dylan. I think he wrote that before actually.

I think Nevermind was a bit more acclaimed than you're leading on. Rolling Stone sucks ass with their 2 1/2 star review!

Agreed about everything else.

Ha! It is indeed, but that's not why it pisses me. I'm a Dylan fan.
Well, I wasn't there, but I guess other places beside RS gave it average reviews.

Very well then. Glad we agree. :D
 
USA love's it. So there... :tongue:

There's a review and another article with this link:
http://www.usatoday.com/life/music/news/2009-02-26-u2_N.htm


'Horizon' evolves with U2's audacity, creativity, innovation.

REVIEW: FOUR STARS FOR THE FOUR SUPERSTARS

By Elysa Gardner
USA TODAY

U2, No Line on the Horizon
* * * * (out of four)

Thirty years after U2's recording debut, it's worth remembering how the coolest band in rock 'n' roll earned that status: by rejecting the preoccupation with coolness that then characterized much of modern rock. Bono and friends have never shied from the grand gesture, never been wary of the heart-on-sleeve intensity that can lead lesser artists to sentimentality. Even when they've embraced irony, it's not at the expense of passion.

With its 12th studio album, No Line on the Horizon, U2 continues to set the standard for sonic and emotional potency and daring. It lacks the immediate, relentless melodic punch of The Joshua Tree or Achtung Baby, but texturally, Horizon ranks with the group's best, boldest work and grows more resonant with repeated listening.

Produced by Brian Eno, Daniel Lanois and Steve Lillywhite, who have helped define and refine U2's unmistakable yet ever-evolving sound, the album features music written by the band with Eno and Lanois. The result is tracks with both anthemic sweep and intricate nuance. From the pummeling title cut to the hauntingly spare White As Snow, all are showcases for the musicians' individual and collective strengths.

Edge's chiming, richly harmonic guitar work is showcased with loving care, whether he's propelling a hook or pouring his bursts of color and light into a searing solo. Bassist Adam Clayton and drummer Larry Mullen Jr. remain the most supple and sensual rhythm team in contemporary rock, providing a flesh-and-blood foundation for the densely atmospheric, distortion-flecked arrangements.

As frontman, Bono continues to acknowledge the contradictions that come with being a superstar with a healthy ego and a keen conscience, worldly sophistication and spiritual curiosity. There are self-deprecating nods to his side gig as celebrated activist: "Be careful of small men with big ideas," he sings in Stand Up Comedy. But the singer is most revealing in yearning, searching mode. "It's not if I believe in love/But if love believes in me/Oh, believe in me," he pleads in Moment of Surrender.

After all this time and all that success, U2 still hasn't found what it's looking for: The band is as full of questions and thirsty for inspiration as ever, eager to continue exploring and growing.

>Download: Aforementioned songs, Unknown Caller, I'll Go Crazy If I Don't Go Crazy Tonight, Fez Being Born >Skip: Nothing

I like that, "skip nothing" part. :hug:
 
The other article is really telling and informative.

'Horizon' evolves with U2's audacity, creativity, innovation


At Mullen's urging, the band had no timetable and missed the lucrative fall release schedule.

By briefly considering a late 2008 release date, "we lost our way a bit, but when we blew out the deadline, we came back," Bono says. "When anyone said, 'Look, we have to put this out,' Larry said, 'Oh, it's going to ruin everything.' We were making music for its own sake and for each other, and Larry wanted to keep that as long as we could. It was a lovely thing to be lost in."

More cloistered than on past efforts, the band "wasn't thinking about who would be listening to the music in the future or how it would go over live," Edge says.

Second disc on the horizon

After a leisurely recording pace, the band spent a frenzied 48 hours in London rotating seven final mixes, eight vocal versions and lyric rewrites.

Tunes left behind, including the soulful Every Breaking Wave, are slated for a more meditative album due possibly by year's end. U2 also is sitting on material from early sessions with Rick Rubin, benched after the band reconnected with longtime collaborators Brian Eno and Danny Lanois, who produced Horizon with Steve Lillywhite.

"Rick is a minimalist, which is about getting back to pure essence," Bono says. "That's the theme of this album lyrically, but musically, this is maximalist. He wants to make a U2 album that is hard as nails and tender as can be but musically bare-boned. There is a place for that. This was the time for experimentation, wanderlust and finding other colors."

Edge says they aren't wed to any single formula.

"Rick is methodical, and I'm excited about working in that style as well," he says, noting that the songs he and Bono have been writing for next year's Spider-Man: Turn Off the Dark Broadway musical require a more disciplined approach.

"There's no strict route to a U2 song," Edge says. "The only thing that's consistent is the search for inspiration. It can start from a drumbeat, a guitar part, a title, a lyric. An entire piece of music can suddenly arrive. We subscribe to the idea that there's no such thing as failure. There's just giving up. We do not give up. We are relentless."

U2's tenacity and artistic daring pay off in Horizon's towering splendor, says Blender editor Joe Levy.

"It combines two moments: the epic grandeur of The Joshua Tree and the experimental audio research of Achtung Baby and Zooropa," he says.

"They're at a point where they can be the biggest band in the world and still be edgy, with a capital 'E' in this case. They haven't come out swinging this hard and reaching this high since Joshua. On the surface, it's classic U2. Put on the headphones, and you hear an album every bit as sonically ambitious as Achtung Baby."

This was one of the best reviews and articles I've read. Of course I agree. :up:
But, also it's because it's not some pretentious "blow hard" critic of Bono, dissing the album because of some pre-conceived attitued towards Bono.
 
I agree. Let's not get too worried yet. I've gone through the 26 reviews that MetaCritic used for HTDAAB in 2004 (overall score 79/100) and only 9 out of those 26 sources have posted reviews so far.

3 have given higher scores to NLOTH (Rolling Stone, Q, Entertainment Weekly)
2 have given the same score (Uncut, Mojo)
4 have given lower scores to NLOTH (LA Times, NME, Guardian, Drowned In Sound)

There are still A LOT of reviews to go.

good point. I hope it stays in the 80's. If it stays at 84 (or higher?!?!) it could be in the top 200 of the decade. It would sure deserve it, some of the albums in the top 200 make me :doh:

USA love's it. So there... :tongue:

There's a review and another article with this link:
'Horizon' evolves with U2's audacity, creativity, innovation - USATODAY.com


I like that, "skip nothing" part. :hug:

skip nothing indeed

anyone know where I can get a giant version of the pic in the article? I love it. I also love that everyone is reporting there may be another album soon. Instead of a WHY DID BONO LIE ABOUT DA NEW ABLUM thread, we'll have a WHY DID EVERYONE LIE ABOUT DA NEW ABLUM thread :wink:
 
good point. I hope it stays in the 80's. If it stays at 84 (or higher?!?!) it could be in the top 200 of the decade. It would sure deserve it, some of the albums in the top 200 make me :doh:

Well, while Metacritic is a very good site, you can't take their top [whatever] cause in the end they won't be accurate. As you can see, if I remember correctly, How the West Was Won is on the top 3. It is a great live album, but I think some people did better things on studio. :wink:
 
just for kicks here's the list of publications Metacritic uses for music (the *'s mean print only; they're not special :p ):

All Music Guide
Almost Cool
Alternative Press*
Amazon.com
Austin Chronicle
Billboard
Blender*
Boston Globe
Cokemachineglow.com
Delusions of Adequacy
Dot Music
Drowned In Sound
Dusted Magazine
Entertainment Weekly
Filter*
The Guardian
Hartford Courant
Hot Press
Los Angeles Times
Lost At Sea
Magnet*
Mojo*
MSN Consumer Guide
musicOMH.com
New Musical Express
New York Magazine
The New York Times
No Ripcord
NOW Magazine (Toronto)
Observer Music Monthly
The Onion (A.V. Club)
Paste Magazine
The Phoenix (Boston)
Pitchfork
Pop Matters
Prefix Magazine
Q Magazine*
Rolling Stone
Slant Magazine
Spin*
Sputnikmusic
Tiny Mix Tapes
Trouser Press
Uncut*
Under The Radar*
Urb*
Vibe*
Village Voice
The Wire*
 
I agree. Let's not get too worried yet. I've gone through the 26 reviews that MetaCritic used for HTDAAB in 2004 (overall score 79/100) and only 9 out of those 26 sources have posted reviews so far.

3 have given higher scores to NLOTH (Rolling Stone, Q, Entertainment Weekly)
2 have given the same score (Uncut, Mojo)
4 have given lower scores to NLOTH (LA Times, NME, Guardian, Drowned In Sound)

There are still A LOT of reviews to go.

I don't think they were used for HTDAAB, but sputnikmusic gave it a 4/5, so that's another 80
 
just for kicks here's the list of publications Metacritic uses for music (the *'s mean print only; they're not special :p ):

All Music Guide
Almost Cool
Alternative Press*
Amazon.com
Austin Chronicle
Billboard
Blender*
Boston Globe
Cokemachineglow.com
Delusions of Adequacy
Dot Music
Drowned In Sound
Dusted Magazine
Entertainment Weekly
Filter*
The Guardian
Hartford Courant
Hot Press
Los Angeles Times
Lost At Sea
Magnet*
Mojo*
MSN Consumer Guide
musicOMH.com
New Musical Express
New York Magazine
The New York Times
No Ripcord
NOW Magazine (Toronto)
Observer Music Monthly
The Onion (A.V. Club)
Paste Magazine
The Phoenix (Boston)
Pitchfork
Pop Matters
Prefix Magazine
Q Magazine*
Rolling Stone
Slant Magazine
Spin*
Sputnikmusic
Tiny Mix Tapes
Trouser Press
Uncut*
Under The Radar*
Urb*
Vibe*
Village Voice
The Wire*


It would be cool if we could compile the ratings that each of those publications gave to NLOTH
I'll see what I can remember:

Drowned in sound: 2/6
Entertainment Weekly: A-
The Guardian: 3/5
Hot Press: 4/5
LA Times: 3/4
Mojo: 4/5
NME: 7/10
Q: 5/5
Spin: 3.5/5
Sputnik: 4/5
Uncut: 4/5
RS: 5/5
 
It would be cool if we could compile the ratings that each of those publications gave to NLOTH
I'll see what I can remember:

Drowned in sound: 2/6
Entertainment Weekly: A-
The Guardian: 3/5
Hot Press: 4/5
LA Times: 3/4
Mojo: 4/5
NME: 7/10
Q: 5/5
Spin: 3.5/5
Sputnik: 4/5
Uncut: 4/5
RS: 5/5

hey, great job :up: those are probably the only ones posted so far. I searched the thread for a few others that I thought might have been posted but couldn't find them. As cjboog said, only 9 of the sources that reviewed HTDAAB have been posted. you've got 12 there from the Metacritc list so you've probably got all of them covered.

Out of those, one bad review, one medicore ... the rest positive. Go U2 go!

for fun here's some conversion

Drowned in sound: 5/10 50
Entertainment Weekly: A- 91
The Guardian: 3/5 60
Hot Press: 4/5 80
LA Times: 3/4 75
Mojo: 4/5 80
NME: 7/10 70
Q: 5/5 100
Spin: 3.5/5 70
Sputnik: 4/5 80
Uncut: 4/5 80
RS: 5/5 100

Average: 78 (if I did my math correctly :wink: )

I think they give more weight to certain reviews...? In their FAQ it says "Can you tell me how each of the different critics are weighted in your formula?" and their answer is "Absolutely not." so, I'm guessing they do :p so their score might be higher or lower. I'm hoping RS and Q get more weight.

Edit:

add Observer Music Monthly: 8/10 80

doesn't really change the score.
 
i think she's their biggest cheerleader of all the critics in the US. she adored the last two albums.

Also, I can remember , Elysa Gardner wrote the review for AB in Rolling Stone , I still got the magazine, she gave **** 1/2 :drool:, btw, excellent review too.


Edna Gundersen, loves the band too, what a pair of smart women !!
 
lack of melody!?

unknown caller alone defines melody as we know it.

fucking defines.
:hyper:

Yeah the definition of TIRED meoldy-- shush now, shush now! Are you kidding me?? Shush now?? He talks through half of the song as well- take your rose colored glasses off-- our band is dying-- reboot yourself, shush now.. this song is an OOMPA LOOMPA anthem... Terrible effort-- where is the voice of reason among Lanois/and the guys (Eno never had taste so he is forgiven)... Shsh now-- I am sooo sad by this effort--
 
Yeah the definition of TIRED meoldy-- shush now, shush now! Are you kidding me?? Shush now?? He talks through half of the song as well- take your rose colored glasses off-- our band is dying-- reboot yourself, shush now.. this song is an OOMPA LOOMPA anthem... Terrible effort-- where is the voice of reason among Lanois/and the guys (Eno never had taste so he is forgiven)... Shsh now-- I am sooo sad by this effort--

umm, no. Best song on the album next to Breathe.
 
I'm sorry, but I don't think people bitch enough about the lyrics.

Music itself is poetry. Poetry that can be ruined by the actual poetry of the lyrics. Artists from Bob Dylan to TV on the Radio have an extra edge because of great lyrics. Lyrics are part of the music. Not complaining about them is like not complaining about bad music.

Most lyrics in rock and roll are ho-hum. And that's fine with me, that's the throwaway essence of pop music. Its when lyrics are worse than average - when they call attention to how horrendous they are by simply being so much less than average, not melding to the music but sticking out like a sore thumb - that they bother me, and that they should bother any serious music fan. Bono's lyrics can occasionally ruin a song in this decade. Not always, not often, but enough on Crazy Tonight and Stand Up Comedy to make me dread their appearance on the album.

Ha. You took the words right out of my mouth. I too dread Crazy Tonight and Stand Up precisely for that reason.
 
umm, no. Best song on the album next to Breathe.

Sush now, reboot yourself-- Ooompa Loompa-- I laughed! Mag is the only close thing to a good song... youll see, ooomps...

Hear me, sister speak, that I may speak, dont move or say a thing... UUUUUHG!!!!
 
umm, no. Best song on the album next to Breathe.

By the way Im not buying your coackatoo!! GAY!!!!!! BUYING YOUR COCKATOO? REALLY?? I love bono but GAY!!!
I will however say my Ju Ju man (hahah OMG GAY!) that ateast Breath has a cool slide in it--
 
Sush now, reboot yourself-- Ooompa Loompa-- I laughed! Mag is the only close thing to a good song... youll see, ooomps...

Hear me, sister speak, that I may speak, dont move or say a thing... UUUUUHG!!!!

I see a little silhouetto of a man,
Scaramouche,scaramouche will you do the fandango-
Thunderbolt and lightning-very very frightening me-
Galileo,galileo,

lyrics don't have to be great on their own as shown above, they are only great if they serve the purpose of the song.

Anyways, I have no issue if you don't like Unknown Caller, as most here seem to think its brilliant. Maybe one day you will experience what we see in this song.
 

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