LP15 - We're due for a break from the norm

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I honestly don't. But what do I know? Sure, it would have sold more copies. But without any real hits . . . .



The SOI release choice gave people who didn't like U2 something new to bitch about. But I suspect the band picked up some new fans that weren't there before. Which was the goal. But that isn't the kind of thing you hear. What you will hear are the complainers because that's what people enjoy doing -- complaining about something they don't like. Like U2.



The one thing I will question is the lead single. Maybe a different choice would have helped in that regard. Though doubtful. SOI just didn't have that stand-out cut.
Any take that puts the apple release as anything other than an unmitigated disaster is a bad take that is not based in reality.
 
and people thought the apple promo was invasive...

Well, it was invasive but I feel the reaction was overblown.

I remember a coworker, not a U2 fan, who said to me at the time "i don't see the big fuss, when I found out they gave me a free album my reaction was, 'thanks'"
 
Then fill me in on reality.



Disaster in what sense? And what empirical objective evidence do you have to offer?
You honestly believe that the apple release, which continues to be mocked even to this date, was a net positive for the band?

Really?

That's an insane take, and no, I'm not wasting my time arguing against insane takes.
 
You honestly believe that the apple release, which continues to be mocked even to this date, was a net positive for the band?

Really?

That's an insane take, and no, I'm not wasting my time arguing against insane takes.

I didn't request an argument. I made a reasonable request for you to support your absolutist claim.

My opinion is just an opinion. You comment as though you're just waltzed down Mt Sinai with your thoughts etched on stone.

Can't support your claim? No worries we'll drop it.

Ever notice how in politics sometimes the most extreme minority makes the most noise and gets the most coverage in the press? Well, that's what I liken the negative noise for the SOI download.

I think most people just didn't and don't care. U2 continues to sell out most stadiums and arenas and the show goes on.

No download strategy was going to help SOI be any more popular than it was.
 
Added bonus for "most?"

Then that implies "most" folks downloaded it in support of the charity.

.

No it implies that the average person saw Invisible during the Superb Owl, liked it, saw it was available for free and downloaded it, and when they saw it also gave a buck to Red, they said, "oh that's cool"...but doubtful that the charity donation was the top reason 99% of folks downloaded it.
It would have had the same numbers without the charity aspect.
 
I didn't request an argument. I made a reasonable request for you to support your absolutist claim.



My opinion is just an opinion. You comment as though you're just waltzed down Mt Sinai with your thoughts etched on stone.



Can't support your claim? No worries we'll drop it.



Ever notice how in politics sometimes the most extreme minority makes the most noise and gets the most coverage in the press? Well, that's what I liken the negative noise for the SOI download.



I think most people just didn't and don't care. U2 continues to sell out most stadiums and arenas and the show goes on.



No download strategy was going to help SOI be any more popular than it was.
I don't need to provide evidence to prove that grass is green.
 
Obviously we all have our opinions on what should have been done instead of what was done with the Apple/SOI situation.

I have long said that just a pop up on everyone's phone either accepting or declining the free download would have avoided pretty much the whole backlash.

But more than that. If instead of the band performing Miracle at the Apple keynote, the first single choice was EBW. There would be no performance, but instead a gorgeous video played to accompany the song - and Bono and the Edge just follow up with a quick speech saying - We love Apple and have been proud to be partnered with them for years in the pursuit of bringing music to millions of people around the world, and because of this we are making our album available to everyone for free for a week. blah, blah, blah things would have been extraordinarily different.

If they wanted to go for actual sales numbers, they could have done the same thing and said, we are offering our new album for only 4.49 for the first week, blah blah blah (the lowest sales price to still count as a full album sale) and i think we would have seen big first week numbers, and people actually taking time to listen to the album instead of dismissing it fully out of hand.

I think that leading with EBW after NLOTH, would have been viewed almost in the way that ATYCLB was viewed coming off the heals of POP. A return to U2 in full form and would have represented the album well.

come after that with The Crystal Ballroom or The Troubles, would have been excellent.

I am excited to see what direction the band takes next. Would be amazing to see them put out one final really strong, bulletproof album where they lead it off wisely with the right choice of song.

It won't probably do much at this point radio wise, but it would be a great way to go out.
 
Ehh, I don’t believe in a ballad as a first single. EBW ain’t WOWY, and I think an overwhelming number of people would have just yawned at its adult contemporary vibe. If it was the demo version with the electric guitar, maybe you have a better case.

With a band at their age trying to remain relevant and still appeal to open-minded younger listeners, they needed to lead with something energetic and propulsive. The Miracle wasn’t it because it sounded too generic, but Volcano or California would have definitely stood out, each in their own ways, the former a turn back to U2’s earlier years, and the latter a polished pop confection with a great melody. EBW is the “deeper” track you release as a follow-up later in the cycle, like One. They correctly held it back, but the problem was no one cared anymore after the iTunes debacle.
 
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Ehh, I don’t believe in a ballad as a first single. EBW ain’t WOWY, and I think an overwhelming number of people would have just yawned at its adult contemporary vibe. If it was the demo version with the electric guitar, maybe you have a better case.

With a band at their age trying to remain relevant and still appeal to open-minded younger listeners, they needed to lead with something energetic and propulsive. The Miracle wasn’t it because it sounded too generic, but Volcano or California would have definitely stood out, each in their own ways, the former a turn back to U2’s earlier years, and the latter a polished pop confection with a great melody. EBW is the “deeper” track you release as a follow-up later in the cycle, like One. They correctly held it back, but the problem was no one cared anymore after the iTunes debacle.

Good point. I love both California and Volcano and see your point on being more attention grabbing. Either way, Miracle was a 40 year old band singing about a 45 year old band, and kinda generic and forced in my opinion. SOI has some great songs, while feeling pretty natural and unique. Too bad it got ignored.
 
Quick story: My Boss who is closer to the end of being in his 50's as opposed to me who's still in early 50's came up to me and said why you leaving early today? I said heading to concert in Boston. he say's oh yeah who are you seeing? I said U2 and he laughs and looks at me I used to really love that band until one day I looked on my Iphone and they're new album just appeared out of nowhere. He continue's that it took him 10 minutes to rid the album off of his phone (something his son had to do). He finishes saying he wouldn't cross the street to see them for free and they're the face of everything evil of corporate shilling.
 
Quick story: My Boss who is closer to the end of being in his 50's as opposed to me who's still in early 50's came up to me and said why you leaving early today? I said heading to concert in Boston. he say's oh yeah who are you seeing? I said U2 and he laughs and looks at me I used to really love that band until one day I looked on my Iphone and they're new album just appeared out of nowhere. He continue's that it took him 10 minutes to rid the album off of his phone (something his son had to do). He finishes saying he wouldn't cross the street to see them for free and they're the face of everything evil of corporate shilling.

Interesting.

But I maintain that anyone who liked U2 when the album came out isn't going to hate the band because it showed up for free on their iPhone.

A priori.

Axiomatic.

Not a stretch.

Apple had a backlash that mattered, probably. But I can't really see it affecting U2. It just gave people who didn't like the band something else to make noise about.
 
this is ridiculous.

i am a fan of 90s-00s rock bands like the foo fighters, red hot chili peppers, and pearl jam. i have spent quite a bit of money on multiple albums by each of the three bands over the years.

if I woke up tomorrow and one of those band's new albums had magically downloaded itself onto my phone in the middle of the night without my knowledge or consent, using up my data bandwidth and phone memory, and in order to get it off i had to go download an entirely separate piece of software onto my pc and then run that and sync my phone, you better bet i would be pissed. most people would be, and most people were.

was it way overblown by some of the chattering twitterati class? sure.

but it was a terrible dumb stupid idea for both apple and u2, and it was executed even worse. it's one of the worst mistakes the band ever made and almost nothing positive came of it (a short lived minor boost to back catalog sales doesn't count for much). it's okay to admit that u2 fucked it up top to bottom.
 
Yeah in hindsight, ignoring even the “my data on my bandwidth” thing Dave is saying, which genius actually thought “force feed them our music” was a good idea? Like, imagine Guy Fieri one day showing up at your front door with a spoon in your face and saying “eat.” The food might be good. You mightn’t be hungry right now. But not many people respond positively to force.
 
ignoring even the “my data on my bandwidth” thing Dave is saying

i mean sure, it's not a big deal now when everyone and their mother in the US has an unlimited plan, but mobile plans have always been way more expensive here and for a lot less capacity. we still don't have unlimited plans that cost less than $200 a month in canada and back in 2014 you didn't get very much data to use up at all. i had a pretty good plan and i think i had 500 mb of data per month and if i went over that it was something ridiculous like $2 per mb after that. a 11-song 50 mb album for someone who doesn't have a lot of money and therefore doesn't have very much data per month could have legit ended up costing someone a lot more money than actually buying the album at full price if the album download put them over their limit.

my point is just that there are a lot of various and perfectly valid reasons for that to have pissed people off whether they are fans of the band or not.
 
I didn’t mean that like “ignoring the dumb thing Dave said” so much as I meant “even with that not being taken into account.”
 
this is ridiculous.

i am a fan of 90s-00s rock bands like the foo fighters, red hot chili peppers, and pearl jam. i have spent quite a bit of money on multiple albums by each of the three bands over the years.

if I woke up tomorrow and one of those band's new albums had magically downloaded itself onto my phone in the middle of the night without my knowledge or consent, using up my data bandwidth and phone memory, and in order to get it off i had to go download an entirely separate piece of software onto my pc and then run that and sync my phone, you better bet i would be pissed. most people would be, and most people were.

was it way overblown by some of the chattering twitterati class? sure.

but it was a terrible dumb stupid idea for both apple and u2, and it was executed even worse. it's one of the worst mistakes the band ever made and almost nothing positive came of it (a short lived minor boost to back catalog sales doesn't count for much). it's okay to admit that u2 fucked it up top to bottom.

I knew that one day you and I would actually agree 100% on something.

Dont't worry, I wont tell anyone.
 
The Edge: Lots of people, including me, don’t read the instructions. When you select automatic download on iOS, you’re signing up to be pushed free content. It’s not exactly small print, it’s just a box you tick or don’t. I understand how and why people got annoyed. But really, with all that’s going on in the world. . .come on. Apple and U2 were genuine about this whole thing. Apple were being generous and we were trying to do something different to get through the noise.
 
The Edge: Lots of people, including me, don’t read the instructions. When you select automatic download on iOS, you’re signing up to be pushed free content. It’s not exactly small print, it’s just a box you tick or don’t. I understand how and why people got annoyed. But really, with all that’s going on in the world. . .come on. Apple and U2 were genuine about this whole thing. Apple were being generous and we were trying to do something different to get through the noise.

it's a quote that illustrates perfectly how clueless these guys can be.

But Bono said it better when he used the word megalomania. Props for honesty.
 
In the long run I don’t think it did them any good. The only people who really listened to it were the people who probably would’ve bought it anyway. All it really did was solidify the opinions of many U2 haters. The press was extremely negative. For a week my Facebook newsfeed was people bitching about it. That’s not good for anybody.

If they would’ve just released it normally, and promoted the album properly, SOI wouldn’t be seen as a blemish on their career. It probably would’ve gotten favorable reviews, and I still believe EBW could’ve been a successful single in another life. I love the album, and not just because everybody hates it. The only bad song IMO is The Miracle. While it’s not as bad as GOYB, it belongs in the archives, not on an Apple commercial.
 
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I still think if they gave everyone the opportunity to download it for free that would have been a lot better. This is one thing they did was indefensible I would think. What I can't believe is people still remember it to this day.
 
The Edge: Lots of people, including me, don’t read the instructions. When you select automatic download on iOS, you’re signing up to be pushed free content. It’s not exactly small print, it’s just a box you tick or don’t. I understand how and why people got annoyed. But really, with all that’s going on in the world. . .come on. Apple and U2 were genuine about this whole thing. Apple were being generous and we were trying to do something different to get through the noise.
I give them credit for trying.

But it failed. Miserably.

It is the single worst decision the band has ever made.
 
To pivot to a different topic that isn't rehashing what was an obvious horrible decision to 99% of the human race...


I found this u2.com posting very interesting...

https://www.u2.com/news/title/its-never-become-their-job

Not the content of the video... but the idea that u2.com is doing interviews with Eno and Eno and Bono are sharing friendly texts.

It makes me think that maybe this might be the next move. We've wondered if the relationship between the band and Eno/Lanois wasn't healthy over song writing credits, but this shows that clearly that's either not the case or at the very least not the case anymore.
 
I still think if they gave everyone the opportunity to download it for free that would have been a lot better. This is one thing they did was indefensible I would think. What I can't believe is people still remember it to this day.

I think if they were being honest, they would probably admit that the thought to offer it for free and leave it as a choice for consumers did occur to them. But fear that only fans would download it shot that idea down. They wanted to go large and impose it on as many people as possible in the hopes of gaining some new fans, without regard to the complainers.

Sometimes any press is good press. The fact that it's still a topic to this day says something. U2, knowing they didn't have a hit on the album, but had a good album on their hands, made a bold decision (and also got paid handsomely). But it's hard to let go. They don't want to fade into a less-than-the-biggest-band-in-the-world. status.

One poster brought up a justifiable reason why even a U2 fan would not welcome a forced download. But that's the thing -- they're still a fan. I don't really think it caused the band to lose any fans, and I'm not talking about someone who bought JT 100 years ago and says "yeah I used to like this band before they pulled that Apple stunt." That person doesn't count.
 
I think if they were being honest, they would probably admit that the thought to offer it for free and leave it as a choice for consumers did occur to them. But fear that only fans would download it shot that idea down. They wanted to go large and impose it on as many people as possible in the hopes of gaining some new fans, without regard to the complainers.



Sometimes any press is good press. The fact that it's still a topic to this day says something. U2, knowing they didn't have a hit on the album, but had a good album on their hands, made a bold decision (and also got paid handsomely). But it's hard to let go. They don't want to fade into a less-than-the-biggest-band-in-the-world. status.



One poster brought up a justifiable reason why even a U2 fan would not welcome a forced download. But that's the thing -- they're still a fan. I don't really think it caused the band to lose any fans, and I'm not talking about someone who bought JT 100 years ago and says "yeah I used to like this band before they pulled that Apple stunt." That person doesn't count.
It's a topic only in that it's still a running punchline.

And they did a free download with Apple 7 months prior with Invisible. You needed to log in and download it. It wasn't an automatic push. So both parties clearly knew the difference, and it was a conscious decision to have it automatically added to everyone's iTunes library.
 
Of course they knew the difference. If they were smarter they would’ve just forced the album on new phones pre purchase and claimed an album sale for every iPhone sale. Instant platinum!
 
They didn’t want to be ignored. This was a way to be impossible to ignore. A band at their age needed to take a risk. So they took it.

They were wrong. They wouldn’t do it again.

It’s still on my mother-in-law’s phone — she got very confused and annoyed when SLABT started playing once.

U2 walks the line between being indispensable and being annoying.

This was annoying.
 
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