I hope the new album is a surprise again...

[VintagePunk]

I don't want to give you shit for this, because I understand where you're coming from with it, but I don't agree, no. As much of a meme as I TAIGHGHGHT MASELLAFF WIT WIIAYAHAYHAGHGHGHGH has become, Bono's delivery on MOS is the key to understanding what makes it so special. The song is inherently isolating, targeting the universe less and the individual more, to the extent that the protagonist doesn't even notice others around him. In doing so, Bono naturally drags the listener into a very intimate place without being lazy and using the words "alone," "lonely," "isolated," "detached," and so on.

The lyrics share an attitude with the music that emphasizes subtle changes in melody (note the final 30 seconds or so, in which Edge carefully spreads sunlight over the proceedings) and mood. This sort of harmony is an example of excellent songwriting, and when it's sung with the conviction Bono brings to the table (he wails "I've been in every black hole" as if he were being torn apart by one at that very moment) it doesn't matter that it lacks a ridiculous Bohemian Rhapsody-style payoff. The fact that MOS makes you want to hang on to its every word without ever rising above a whisper is an amazing trick, and the message behind the lyrics (particularly refreshing for the hell-bent-on-universality U2 of the '00s) makes it one of their recent classics.

I like your take on it, thanks for posting this.

At times, I've struggled with this song, not really feeling the greatness that everyone else seems to see, and feeling like I'm missing something. Sometimes it felt like I was on the verge of "getting it," and then it would slip away. It wasn't till the rap part was added live that I felt like the song was really gelling for me.

 

[BVS]

I’ll elaborate and before everyone gets panties in bunches this is MY opinion and while you may disagree, no need to attack. Also know that while we have different opinions, one of us is wrong and it’s most likely not me

It’s all about pacing. Like any good movie or novel or anything with artistic merit. You need to keep the pacing going. Otherwise you’re meandering. Also, your opening is everything. It lets you know the type of (for lack of a better word) journey you’re gonna be going on.

So when NLOTH sneaks in (quite possibly one of the best songs U2 has written in a long time) and attacks you with this beautifully bombastic sound (not one, not two, but THREE separate drum parts) a helluva melody and it just lets you know that you are in for some energy.

And then…Magnificent starts and it’s kind of plodding ahead and then it slowly builds to…a bit of a mid-tempo song with some tremendous singing but it kind of sounds like the guys are tuckered out. The guitars are great, the synths are great but it doesn’t have that second punch we need (i.e. Zoo Station / EBTTRT or Discotheque / DYFL or ASOH / Pride) If you start out strong, don't follow up with the immediate slow down (BD / SIAM or Vertigo / MD)

Then, while they’ve got you slowed down, they give us Moment of Surrender (and here’s where I’m gonna get shit) MOS, while a beautiful song, doesn’t go anywhere. It goes on and on and never really ascends at any point. It’s got a great melody, a fantastic slide solo, but it’s kind of…just…there…

Based on every interview everyone on this board has most likely read, I’m sure to be in the room while that song arrived must have been an other worldly experience. But we’ll never be in that room at that moment. (so badly want to make a Stuck In A Moment Of Surrender joke but I can’t really formulate it right now) So while the songs MOS were compared to (WOWY and One) eventually get to a crescendo, this song does not.

So then you’re now really chugging along and we get…Unknown Caller. A good tune, still in the mid-tempo range, though. From there it’s three tunes – one slightly faster, the next really faster, then slow fast tunes. And the last three tracks, acoustic-y ballad, bluesy, dark rocker and then moody ender. It just sounds disjointed to me. I can’t even listen to the album in its current track listing. I rearrange it and make it more enjoyable for myself (one of the bad side effects that iTunes has had on The Album)

Hopefully that answered your question and angered next to no one.

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with almost everything you typed here, especially your lack of context... the first half of this album travels pretty much the same path as most U2 albums.

I agree it's disjointed in the middle but that's about the only thing you got right.

 

[ozeeko]

I think the payoff in MOS is what Edge plays during the last 15 or 20 seconds. It sounds like a birth, or a rebirth, or even a death. It's a wordless climax. I'm glad Bono doesn't resort to BOMBish Bonoisms. It's meandering quality, I agree, is the key to it. It's strung out and lost. And quite beautiful actually.

As for everything else, I do share some of Raf's P.O.V. For instance, WAS into Breathe into COL doesn't make any sense to me. I guess Breathe is supposed to be some kind of "we will overcome the darkness" type anthem. Very BOMBlike attitude, so when COL's creepy pessimism and jadedness starts, it's like "Um...ok which Bono is the real one here? The one saying we will overcome, or the one saying we're all fucked, more or less?" That would be ok the character had a natural evolution that would've brought his Breathe idealism down to COL's level.

And SUC and CT sound hopelessly out of place.

 

[Rafiennes]

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with almost everything you typed here, especially your lack of context... the first half of this album travels pretty much the same path as most U2 albums.

I agree it's disjointed in the middle but that's about the only thing you got right.

What were you looking for that I did not provide?

Also, other than Zooropa and the two albums prior to NLOTH, most of them start with two or three strong songs, then slow it down, then bring it up again in pacing.

 

[LemonMelon]

if they want to avoid the glue-factory, they do need another face lift.

'00s U2 albums aren't crappy because they sound like U2, they're crappy because Grace, Peace On Earth, and Vertigo are on them. Rather than force some genre exercises as you're implying, Bono should stop writing about Africa and get inspired on a more personal level. Edge should stop appropriating the Walk On riff. Larry should shut the fuck up and let Bono/Edge do what they need to do to get good songs onto the record. And I guess Adam needs to dye his hair blonde because I think of anything else for him to do.

It really bothers me that change is being equated with quality. If U2 is having fundamental issues with songwriting, tossing bizarre shit on top of more shit isn't going to fix anything. If change is paired with inspiration (sometimes the source can be very unfortunate, as with Edge's divorce during the Achtung era), however, the band can still make classic material. But it starts with the band themselves, not some fan-based desire to fuck things up because they can.

 

[U2girl]

It’s all about pacing.

Yes, and unlike it's three predecessors, NLOTH is great in that department. Great intro piece (their best album opener since Zooropa), an actual epic song 2 and keeping up the quality (unlike Stuck, MD, DYFL, Numb), and that classic spot at no. 3 (a true heir to songs like WOWY or One) and down to almost epic song 4. It reminds me of JT, and just like that album needed Trip/IGC to lighten up after the opening 5 songs, so does NLOTH.

Now, I only wish song 5 would be Breathe, to keep up with the mess/isolation of UC, but alas. Crazy tonight, a nicely done pop song, slightly out of place on this album. But since this is an interlude, enter Boots and Stand up comedy that would otherwise not work.

After that, Fez-Being Born drags you back into the world of various characters inhabiting the record, followed by a beautiful slow song WAS full of atmosphere (it's been a while since they were this good at a slow paced, acoustic song). Breathe disrupts the mood - elegantly finished with Cedars of Lebanon - but that's about it as far as pacing goes.

Song for song, and tracklisting wise, it's one of their best. Album-wise, less so. And yes, most definitely the end of the 00's far more than the start of something new. Which picking a new producer would indicate.

I TAIGHGHGHT MASELLAFF WIT WIIAYAHAYHAGHGHGHGH

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Bono should stop writing about Africa and get inspired on a more personal level.

i think one of the major issues for u2 right now as far as trying to write another masterpiece is that life is pretty damned good for them.

 

[ozeeko]

'00s U2 albums aren't crappy because they sound like U2, they're crappy because Grace, Peace On Earth, and Vertigo are on them. Rather than force some genre exercises as you're implying, Bono should stop writing about Africa and get inspired on a more personal level. Edge should stop appropriating the Walk On riff. Larry should shut the fuck up and let Bono/Edge do what they need to do to get good songs onto the record. And I guess Adam needs to dye his hair blonde because I think of anything else for him to do.

It really bothers me that change is being equated with quality. If U2 is having fundamental issues with songwriting, tossing bizarre shit on top of more shit isn't going to fix anything. If change is paired with inspiration (sometimes the source can be very unfortunate, as with Edge's divorce during the Achtung era), however, the band can still make classic material. But it starts with the band themselves, not some fan-based desire to fuck things up because they can.

Thumbs up to everything. While I do like Grace, that first sentence of yours made me laugh out loud.

 

[VintagePunk]

i think one of the major issues for u2 right now as far as trying to write another masterpiece is that life is pretty damned good for them.

I was just thinking the same thing. They're at a point in their lives where they're not feeling personal conflict and angst. They're content, and their songwriting reflects this. They have to look for exterior conflict now, and unfortunately, that manifests as songs about Africa (or their ilk).

 

[U2girl]

Like the loss of Bono's father being on Bomb ? And ATYCLB and Bomb being very personal and direct, as far as the lyricist is concerned ?

And the current decade has 1 song about Africa.

edit: if they want to avoid the glue-factory, they do need another face lift.

That seems to be the case. Look at it this way: they moved from Eno and Lanois and SOA to...a brand new, not even rock-oriented producer.

 

[Rafiennes]

I was just thinking the same thing. They're at a point in their lives where they're not feeling personal conflict and angst. They're content, and their songwriting reflects this. They have to look for exterior conflict now, and unfortunately, that manifests as songs about Africa (or their ilk).

Maybe we need someone to run up to Bono or Edge after a viewing of Spider Man and kick them in the nuts.
Now THERE'S some angst I'd like to hear them sing about.

(to MOS)
"I got kicked in the nuuuuttsss...and , man it really hurt me...after seeing Spider-Man, with Julie Taymor in the lobby...."

"At the moment of the kicking...I turned to The Edge and I asked....is this guy really kicking me....and Edge just noded 'yes'. At the moment of the contact...my testicles were shocked without a doubt...I think I might have coughed up blood and I might have passed out"

 

[ozeeko]

Maybe Bono can develop a heroin addiction. And get Edge hooked. Then they can move to a dilapidated house in France and record their Exile On Main Street.

No more songs ABOUT heroin. Instead, we get songs that are ON heroin!

(just playing obviously)

 

[VintagePunk]

Maybe Bono can develop a heroin addiction. And get Edge hooked. Then they can move to a dilapidated house in France and record their Exile On Main Street.

No more songs ABOUT heroin. Instead, we get songs that are ON heroin!

(just playing obviously)

I was thinking affairs. More affairs, plz!

eta - maybe a 3rd party, a woman, can join their drug-fueled romps.

 

[BVS]

What were you looking for that I did not provide?

Also, other than Zooropa and the two albums prior to NLOTH, most of them start with two or three strong songs, then slow it down, then bring it up again in pacing.

Well I guess your theory falls short for me because I can't fathom a dance beat(Magnificent) described as "plodding".

I think the first half follows U2's JT AB formula to a T.

 

[LemonMelon]

Like the loss of Bono's father being on Bomb ? And ATYCLB and Bomb being very personal, as far as the lyricist is concerned ?

And the current decade has 1 song about Africa.

It's just an example. Obviously, the word "Africa" only pops up once all decade (in Fez, no less), but their go-out-and-help-everyone universal approach to songwriting manifests itself in most '00s tracks. It's no coincidence that the tracks with more specific verbiage and imagery (MOS, Fez, Cedars, One Step Closer) work a lot better than those that are incredibly vague and/or cliched (Stuck, OOTS, Crazy Tonight). This is what I'm talking about, and yes, when Bono has personal conviction behind the lyrics, they often feel more specific and lived-in. Hell, why wouldn't they? When you're writing bumper stickers, the results are inevitably going to be less direct and will, therefore, inspire a weaker reaction.

 

[BVS]

What is vague and cliched about those songs?

 

[LemonMelon]

"I'll give you everything you want, except the thing that you want."

 

[BVS]

I'll give you everything you want, except the thing that you want.

It's not the most creative line(due to the redundancy of the word) but is this an example of cliche or vagueness?

 

[LemonMelon]

It's not the most creative line but is this an example of cliche or vagueness?

If you use the word "thing" or "everything" twice in one line without specifying what that thing may be, you're being vague IMO.

To explain my post more broadly: I find OOTS to be little more than a "ZOMG JUST B URSELF & EVERYTHING WILL B OK" anthem and Stuck to be a "pick yourself up" track with little of originality to separate it from countless others. Crazy Tonight could be a campaign theme song someday. No thanks, I'll take vignettes about misanthropic journalists any day.

 

[BVS]

If you use the word "thing" or "everything" twice in one line without specifying what that thing may be, you're being vague IMO.

To explain my post more broadly: I find OOTS to be little more than a "ZOMG JUST B URSELF & EVERYTHING WILL B OK" anthem and Stuck to be a "pick yourself up" track with little of originality to separate it from countless others. Crazy Tonight could be a campaign theme song someday. No thanks, I'll take vignettes about misanthropic journalists any day.

But as a writer you know sometimes you can't spell it out. In the context of speaking to a growing child the line is obvious without being specific.

Stuck is much more than a "pick yourself up" song, where else have you heard a writer address suicide as just a moment to which you stayed too long in? I can't think of one.

How is Crazy Tonight a campaign song? How is it this song is so misunderstood?

 

[ozeeko]

As harsh as I can be on Bono's lyrics, that line in OOTS never really bothered me.

It's the "freedom has a scent"s and "intellectual tortoise"s and "you got a submarine, i got gasoline"s and "little old lady"s that bother me. The lines where it sounds like he's trying to be poetic or hip or flip or whathaveyou.

I'll take a vague line like "the think that you want" anyday over those abominations.

 

[Irvine511]

It really bothers me that change is being equated with quality.

change is being equated with relevance. they need to give everyone a reason to care -- quality isn't enough for relevance. they need to etch out some space in a hyper-crowded landscape where everything is competing for your attention. a beautiful, gorgeous album of well-performed songs simply isn't enough if you want to be part of the conversation about where music -- not U2 -- is now.

the decision to bring in DM validates this. this is what they think they need to do in order to continue to be part of the conversation.

whether or not this is "good" is irrelevant. it's what they need to do in order to achieve their stated goals.

 

[BVS]

It's funny someone started a whole thread based on that one line "you got submarine, I got gasoline" line. He hadn't even heard the song. Once he actually heard the song he came in later said he got it and it wasn't that bad...

It's a simple but strong line.

 

[ozeeko]

I think on the page and heard it sounds God-awful. He shoulda just scrapped the line. I don't care if it has hidden meaning, it's just bad.

 

[LemonMelon]

But as a writer you know sometimes you can't spell it out. In the context of speaking to a growing child the line is obvious without being specific.

OK. In the context of a man speaking to a child in order to comfort them, "the end is not as fun as the start" is acceptable. In any other context, it's simplistic and embarrassing. Also, as a writer, I am a little offended by him forcing a thousand syllables into one line with "Some things you shouldn't get too good at." It's a nice sentiment, but it's not fleshed out in such a way that you can return to it.

Stuck is much more than a "pick yourself up" song, where else have you heard a writer address suicide as just a moment to which you stayed too long in? I can't think of one.

That's true enough. Again, it's the little things. Bono is brilliant with concepts, always was, but he's gotten worse at compelling single lines over the years (as ozeeko mentioned above), and Stuck fails in that department. It doesn't paint a particularly memorable picture of the relationship between the two, and I only remember the verses because the song was so overplayed. Again, it doesn't feel as lived-in or personal as it needs to for a song of its type. For me, anyway.

How is Crazy Tonight a campaign song? How is it this song is so misunderstood?

The song is misunderstood because it's so haphazard. Could you explain to me how the sentiments of the first verse in any way relate to those of the second and break? First he's talking about a free spirit, then about the state of the union, then knowing the importance of family and friends or something and, oh jeez, Bono. See what I mean about the importance of specificity?

 

[BVS]

I think on the page and heard it sounds God-awful. He shoulda just scrapped the line. I don't care if it has hidden meaning, it's just bad.

The meaning isn't that hidden(or at all)

 

[BVS]

Also, as a writer, I am a little offended by him forcing a thousand syllables into one line with "Some things you shouldn't get too good at." It's a nice sentiment, but it's not fleshed out in such a way that you can return to it.

Some people have built whole careers on quick wordy melodies

That's true enough. Again, it's the little things. Bono is brilliant with concepts, always was, but he's gotten worse at compelling single lines over the years (as ozeeko mentioned above), and Stuck fails in that department. It doesn't paint a particularly memorable picture of the relationship between the two, and I only remember the verses because the song was so overplayed. Again, it doesn't feel as lived-in or personal as it needs to for a song of its type. For me, anyway.

I always thought that was kind of the point, he's a bit angry and disappointed, it's not suppose to sound like a warm and fuzzy picture of their relationship. He even calls him a fool.

The song is misunderstood because it's so haphazard. Could you explain to me how the sentiments of the first verse in any way relate to those of the second and break? First he's talking about a free spirit, then about the state of the union, then knowing the importance of family and friends or something and, oh jeez, Bono. See what I mean about the importance of specificity?

That's the whole point. He's think about her, he's thinking about the state of the union, he's trying to save the world but then thinking back to his family... That's why he needs to go out and let loose otherwise he'll go insane.

 

[purpleoscar]

I don't see what's so hard to get about MOS. If someone is addicted to drugs and they look at the stations of the cross as a way out to make a choice of "vision over visibility" it's a form of redemption.

 

[ozeeko]

The meaning isn't that hidden(or at all)

I was just saying, I hadn't given the matter much thought. But if that's it, you got a submarine, I got gasoline... what the fuck, Bono? is all i can say about it.

 

[VintagePunk]

I don't see what's so hard to get about MOS. If someone is addicted to drugs and they look at the stations of the cross as a way out to make a choice of "vision over visibility" it's a form of redemption.

Not sure if you're referring to me or not, but if so, I didn't mean on a semantic or intellectual level; in that way, the meaning of the song is perfectly clear. I meant on an emotional or gut level, the way that all songs that I consider great resonate for me. It just didn't connect with me for a long time.