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Old 02-02-2009, 02:29 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Danny Boy View Post
Yep. And like I said, not judging, just opining.
Gotcha. I guess it's the "just in case I end up liking it" strategy. Usually for more experimental records that are outside of my usual music zone.
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Old 02-02-2009, 02:30 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by .:MrMacPhisto:. View Post
Am I buying new R.E.M. album? YES.
Are you referring to the Murmurs reissue or is there another new album that I don't know about?
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Old 02-02-2009, 02:31 PM   #33
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This isn't quite right. I download lots and lots of albums and I listen to them all at least once. I don't share them with anyone. If I'm not into it after giving it a fair shot, I'll discard it. If I like something ok, I might leave it around for a while, but I'll eventually discard it if I'm not interested in it after 6 months or so. Albums that end up resonating with me get purchased. I use downloading as a way of filtering/finding the music I like. It takes the risk out of purchases for me, so perhaps I buy less than I would otherwise, but I still buy albums that I think are deserving of support. I think that's the group of people ndmaxfield was talking about above.

It's definitely not "wishful thinking" or "nonsensical". It's a combination of supporting deserving artists and the enjoyment of having the physical CD with physical liner notes in a physical case.
This is a classic, "but that doesn't apply to me!" response to evidence of an undeniable trend. There are exceptions to any rule. You are the exception, not the rule. If everyone was like you album sales wouldn't be down.

p.s.- I rarely meet anyone who will admit that they only steal music and never buy it. And yet...
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Old 02-02-2009, 02:38 PM   #34
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This is a classic, "but that doesn't apply to me!" response to evidence of an undeniable trend. There are exceptions to any rule. You are the exception, not the rule. If everyone was like you album sales wouldn't be down.

p.s.- I rarely meet anyone who will admit that they only steal music and never buy it. And yet...
That may be so, but your comments before implied that there were no exceptions to the rule...and I imagine that they are more numerous than you think. Do you really think that all the guys browsing around the local, hip, last-of-a-dying-breed record shops only listen to physical albums and never download?

p.s. Do you really meet a lot of people and ask them whether they buy or steal music?

Also-keep in mind that stolen/illegally downloaded music has helped more than one band rise to prominence and wealth in recent years. Fleet Foxes would be the most recent one--their album leaked something like 6 months early. Everyone had heard that thing before it was out, and now they're featured in music mags from LA to France.
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Old 02-02-2009, 02:54 PM   #35
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Are we talking only illegal downloads? If legal downloads don't count in the total number of album sales, I propose that that should be fixed. Mark my words, you heard it here, that should be fixed.
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Old 02-02-2009, 02:55 PM   #36
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Are you referring to the Murmurs reissue or is there another new album that I don't know about?
Oh, I meant that if they were releasing any new album, they are one of the bands that I would actually buy the album.
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Old 02-02-2009, 02:56 PM   #37
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I also go with the download and then buy if I like it pattern. I mean there are bands I'd buy the album no matter what U2, Morrissey etc. But only because I want all their albums, for most other bands unless they make a good album I don't want it. I listen to plenty of artists who barely sell any albums, if no one buys these artists albums they might not get to make another one. Maybe one euro won't make a difference to the artist, maybe one sale won't convince the record label to give them another album. Most artists aren't rich and I find it just unfair to not pay for an album if they release something great. The artist deserves it

The problem is a lot of people just download and don't buy, even if they love the album. And that really affects sales

Unless you're Amy Winehouse of course
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Old 02-02-2009, 02:57 PM   #38
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I also go with the download and then buy if I like it pattern. I mean there are bands I'd buy the album no matter what U2, Morrissey etc. But only because I want all their albums, for most other bands unless they make a good album I don't want it. I listen to plenty of artists who barely sell any albums, if no one buys these artists albums they might not get to make another one. Maybe one euro won't make a difference to the artist, maybe one sale won't convince the record label to give them another album. Most artists aren't rich and I find it just unfair to not pay for an album if they release something great. The artist deserves it

The problem is a lot of people just download and don't buy, even if they love the album. And that really affects sales

Unless you're Amy Winehouse of course

Great post. This also summarizes the way I feel.

I actually think some bands should be punished with illegal downloading (Nickelback, etc.). I'm only half-joking.
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Old 02-02-2009, 02:57 PM   #39
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Also-keep in mind that stolen/illegally downloaded music has helped more than one band rise to prominence and wealth in recent years. Fleet Foxes would be the most recent one--their album leaked something like 6 months early. Everyone had heard that thing before it was out, and now they're featured in music mags from LA to France.
I definitely agree with this, a lot of bands do benefit from downloading. I mean how many of the big indie bands would of been big if there was no illegal downloading?
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Old 02-02-2009, 02:58 PM   #40
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U2 have enough fans that will purchase, even if they download a leak. I don't think sales will be affected that much, as long as you take Itunes and Amazon downloads sales into account.
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Old 02-02-2009, 03:00 PM   #41
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I definitely agree with this, a lot of bands do benefit from downloading. I mean how many of the big indie bands would of been big if there was no illegal downloading?
Yes, precisely. Free music plus crazy internet buzz equals lots of promotion. If your music is good, this promotion will far outweigh money lost on downloading because you'll end up getting more albums purchased than you would have otherwise AND you get to make bank from touring.

No stolen music: 500 albums sold. Stolen music: 347,000 albums stolen and 120,000 albums purchased. Which would you rather have?

All in all, I'd argue that this has led to better music quality in recent illegal-downloading years. Music corporations may suffer but the cream is rising to the top and good bands are rewarded.

So instead of bands getting rewarded just because Universal pushes the living shit out of the album, bands are more likely to get rewarded on quality. This also explains the rise of the indie label to some degree.
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Old 02-02-2009, 03:01 PM   #42
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I'm in college, one of the questions in class was
"Who here has illegally downloaded an album in the last few weeks?"
Nearly everyone raised their hands
"Who here's bought a cd in the last few weeks?"
Two people raised their hands

Downloading definitely does affects sales. The best selling album of the last three years sold 10 million, albums could sell that in the US 10 years ago.
But who is to say that those downloads would have equaled sales otherwise? Those kids might just have not heard anything new....
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Old 02-02-2009, 03:06 PM   #43
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But who is to say that those downloads would have equaled sales otherwise? Those kids might just have not heard anything new....
I don't buy that argument. I was in college in the early nineties and I didn't have much money, but I still made a weekly pilgrimage to Sound Warehouse and the local indie store (which were right next door to each other) and I usually came away with something.
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Old 02-02-2009, 03:08 PM   #44
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But who is to say that those downloads would have equaled sales otherwise? Those kids might just have not heard anything new....
Well put it this way you have a class of people who are obviously interested in or at least like music (they download it illegally)

But barely anyone buys anything; the odds are if you had a group of people that big who like music 10-15 years ago at least more than two of them would of bought something.

This isn't the first time this has come up, I'm doing Commerce (Business) and the the death of the record industry has become a popular topic in class (as well as Radiohead)
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Old 02-02-2009, 03:16 PM   #45
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Irishteen, if you haven't read it yet, check out Appetite for Self-Destruction by Steve Knopper. It's an excellent review of how mismanagement and short-sightedness ran the record business aground.

(Several references to U2 being one of the labels "bulletproof" assets as well.)
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