How Much Will Sales be Affected by Downloads? - Page 2 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Your Blue Room > Everything You Know Is Wrong > Where The Album Has A Name - Songs of Experience
Click Here to Login
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 02-02-2009, 02:03 PM   #16
War Child
 
ndmaxfield's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Tampa (physically), New York City (mentally)
Posts: 547
Local Time: 03:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irishteen View Post
I'm in college, one of the questions in class was
"Who here has illegally downloaded an album in the last few weeks?"
Nearly everyone raised their hands
"Who here's bought a cd in the last few weeks?"
Two people raised their hands

Downloading definitely does affects sales. The best selling album of the last three years sold 10 million, albums could sell that in the US 10 years ago.
Right, but these questions aren't enough. I don't think you can infer from the number of illegal downloads, alone, how much money was lost. I think you have to know how many of the same people would have purchased the album in the first place if the illegal download weren't available. IMO, you have to look at it in layers. Some people might just download rampantly and collect music because it's easy. Those people never would have purchased any of the albums they downloaded anyway (a key point!), and they might hardly listen to the stuff they've downloaded (another key point!). So is that money lost? Then I'm sure there is a subset of people who download illegally in order to experiment with music they're not sure about. The question to ask those people is: "How many of you eventually spend money on the band after you illegally download?" Then there are the established fans who pre-order stuff and want an early listen. It's that middle group that I think you really have to question. I think it's legitimate to give people in that group a chance to decide whether they like the music before making them purchase it, just as long as they pay-up when they like what they hear.
__________________

__________________
ndmaxfield is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2009, 02:06 PM   #17
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
Danny Boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Harvard Supermodel Activist of the Decade Runner-Up
Posts: 9,138
Local Time: 07:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by U2opra View Post
Dowloading from iTunes or mp3s from sites like amazon, play.com etc don't interest me. I always want to have the physical CD and packaging to feel like I've got something. I'm guessing a lot of U2 fans are the same? I mean heck, if they're willing to buy the DVD's U2 release then sure as hell are gonna buy the CD albums - well, speaking for myself other U2 fans I know.
For me that's only true for a handful of bands, such as U2. For example, I think I have bought every Radiohead album to date, but I'm not all geeked out for them like I am for U2. When In Rainbows came out I downloaded it in FLAC (legally, from 7Digital) and I don't mind not having the CD. I was a pretty big Pearl Jam fan in college, but I was satisfied downloading their last album from iTunes.

Again, I think it will be a generational change, where kids that are just now starting to buy (or steal) music won't mind not having anything tangible because that's not been their experience. I wouldn't be surprised if physical media was completely dead in 15 years, maybe even sooner.
__________________

__________________
Danny Boy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2009, 02:45 PM   #18
War Child
 
Matthew_Page2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Seattle
Posts: 873
Local Time: 08:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ndmaxfield View Post
Right, but these questions aren't enough. I don't think you can infer from the number of illegal downloads, alone, how much money was lost. I think you have to know how many of the same people would have purchased the album in the first place if the illegal download weren't available. IMO, you have to look at it in layers. Some people might just download rampantly and collect music because it's easy. Those people never would have purchased any of the albums they downloaded anyway (a key point!), and they might hardly listen to the stuff they've downloaded (another key point!). So is that money lost? Then I'm sure there is a subset of people who download illegally in order to experiment with music they're not sure about. The question to ask those people is: "How many of you eventually spend money on the band after you illegally download?" Then there are the established fans who pre-order stuff and want an early listen. It's that middle group that I think you really have to question. I think it's legitimate to give people in that group a chance to decide whether they like the music before making them purchase it, just as long as they pay-up when they like what they hear.
Music sales are down by a tremendous amount. Music companies are going bankrupt. This was happening prior to the recession.
If you had asked a classroom of college students in 1992 how many had purchased a cd in the past few weeks well over half would have raised their hands.
You can't put the genie back in the bottle--illegal downloading is here to stay. But I'll never accept the argument that stealing a song encourages people to pay for it if they like it. It's nonsensical. It's wishful thinking.
If the person doesn't care about the physical cd and has already stolen a digital copy of the song why BUY one?
A car thief who steals a BMW M3 doesn't buy another one because they liked it and thinks BMW deserves their cash.
__________________
Matthew_Page2000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2009, 02:47 PM   #19
War Child
 
Matthew_Page2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Seattle
Posts: 873
Local Time: 08:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny Boy View Post
For me that's only true for a handful of bands, such as U2. For example, I think I have bought every Radiohead album to date, but I'm not all geeked out for them like I am for U2. When In Rainbows came out I downloaded it in FLAC (legally, from 7Digital) and I don't mind not having the CD. I was a pretty big Pearl Jam fan in college, but I was satisfied downloading their last album from iTunes.

Again, I think it will be a generational change, where kids that are just now starting to buy (or steal) music won't mind not having anything tangible because that's not been their experience. I wouldn't be surprised if physical media was completely dead in 15 years, maybe even sooner.
Creepy. I could have written this exact post myself. Right down to the band names.
__________________
Matthew_Page2000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2009, 02:48 PM   #20
War Child
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Skofja Loka, Slovenija
Posts: 762
Local Time: 05:56 PM
I think illeagal copies / or internet download will affect the sales... 10 million (physical) copies sold nowadays is almost impossible to reach. Maybe 5-7 million at their best..
I can't wait though, on the leak but I' ll buy it anyway, like the most of you around here!
__________________
tilen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2009, 02:51 PM   #21
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
Danny Boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Harvard Supermodel Activist of the Decade Runner-Up
Posts: 9,138
Local Time: 07:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew_Page2000 View Post
Creepy. I could have written this exact post myself. Right down to the band names.
__________________
Danny Boy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2009, 02:52 PM   #22
Forum Moderator
 
ramblin rose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 12,860
Local Time: 09:56 AM
The university where my nephew attends includes a subscription to Napster just to avoid the whole illegal download issue, it's included as part of the tuition. I wonder how many universities in the states do this.
__________________
ramblin rose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2009, 02:53 PM   #23
New Yorker
 
bram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,498
Local Time: 11:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew_Page2000 View Post
Music sales are down by a tremendous amount. Music companies are going bankrupt. This was happening prior to the recession.
If you had asked a classroom of college students in 1992 how many had purchased a cd in the past few weeks well over half would have raised their hands.
You can't put the genie back in the bottle--illegal downloading is here to stay. But I'll never accept the argument that stealing a song encourages people to pay for it if they like it. It's nonsensical. It's wishful thinking.
If the person doesn't care about the physical cd and has already stolen a digital copy of the song why BUY one?
A car thief who steals a BMW M3 doesn't buy another one because they liked it and thinks BMW deserves their cash.
This isn't quite right. I download lots and lots of albums and I listen to them all at least once. I don't share them with anyone. If I'm not into it after giving it a fair shot, I'll discard it. If I like something ok, I might leave it around for a while, but I'll eventually discard it if I'm not interested in it after 6 months or so. Albums that end up resonating with me get purchased. I use downloading as a way of filtering/finding the music I like. It takes the risk out of purchases for me, so perhaps I buy less than I would otherwise, but I still buy albums that I think are deserving of support. I think that's the group of people ndmaxfield was talking about above.

It's definitely not "wishful thinking" or "nonsensical". It's a combination of supporting deserving artists and the enjoyment of having the physical CD with physical liner notes in a physical case.
__________________
bram is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2009, 02:55 PM   #24
MMP
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 5,020
Local Time: 01:56 PM
Am I buying new U2 album? YES. (Box-set special ubber pimp version)
Am I buying new Aerosmith album? YES.
Am I buying new R.E.M. album? YES.

But that's it. I must admit that I've here on my pc complete discographys of artists that I LOVE and are in my top 10 and I never bought one single album of theirs. And I'm not planning to. It's sad cause there's a lot of other people like me. So, don't think that everyone who likes the music will buy it.

That said, yes, downloads will affect sales. But like I said, glowing reviews or/and a hit single can boost sales in ways you can't imagine. See Amy Winehouse's Back to Black. A worldwide hit and critical praise made the album sell over 10 million copies. Coldplay's (a band with a solid, but not that big, fanbase) Viva La Vida managed to sell 6-7 million copies around the world with a hit (that doesn't even come close to the sucess that "Rehab" had) and mixed to positive reviews.
Illegal download prevents albums from get over 15 million copies sold, but it's still very possible to reach numbers around 10 million.
__________________
MMP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2009, 02:58 PM   #25
Refugee
 
Pamelakellett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Larry Mullen`s drumkit
Posts: 2,388
Local Time: 04:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny Boy View Post
I think there's a real generation gap there. If you took a poll of teens and tweens, I'd bet many of them have never paid for an album in their life. They have very limited resources so why spend money on something you can get for free?

As for my grumpy old self, I've already pre-ordered the deluxe box set, a CD from Australia, and the deluxe iTunes version; so I'm covering for me and two freeloaders.
I`ve also ordered the deluxe box set and deluxe itunes version as I`m going on hols the day after it is released and I don`t think my box set will have arrived by then.

Got to have something to listen to on the beach.....
__________________
Pamelakellett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2009, 02:59 PM   #26
War Child
 
stealthboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 715
Local Time: 10:56 AM
I've ordered the box set and the LP, so the fact that I'm going to download the leak when it happens doesn't bother me in the slightest.
__________________
stealthboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2009, 03:05 PM   #27
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 3,360
Local Time: 03:56 PM
It will affect sales in the fact that U2 nor anybody else will ever sell the quantities of albums that they did in the 80s or 90s. 10 million in sales would be an achievement to be proud of.

They make the majority of their money touring, but if the album is a real classic album, the sales will be steady for quite some time. Zooropa reallty was the last album that wasnt affected by any type of Internet downloading to any extent.
__________________
Yahweh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2009, 03:18 PM   #28
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
Danny Boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Harvard Supermodel Activist of the Decade Runner-Up
Posts: 9,138
Local Time: 07:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bram View Post
If I like something ok, I might leave it around for a while, but I'll eventually discard it if I'm not interested in it after 6 months or so... It's a combination of supporting deserving artists and the enjoyment of having the physical CD with physical liner notes in a physical case.
Not passing judgment or anything, but IMHO if you have an album in rotation for six months you've far exceeded the try-it-before-you-buy-it period. One or two listens, OK, but my CD cabinet contains dozens of CDs that were in heavy rotation for the first few months and haven't been played since.
__________________
Danny Boy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2009, 03:23 PM   #29
New Yorker
 
bram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,498
Local Time: 11:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny Boy View Post
Not passing judgment or anything, but IMHO if you have an album in rotation for six months you've far exceeded the try-it-before-you-buy-it period. One or two listens, OK, but my CD cabinet contains dozens of CDs that were in heavy rotation for the first few months and haven't been played since.
Sorry, I wasn't being very clear. I meant that if I thought I liked it on first listen but didn't really go back and listen to it during the first 6 months on my hard drive, then I delete.

So there are 3 types here:

1) listen and delete right away
2) not sure about, think it might be a grower...6 months later (this is an estimate--could be 2 or 3 months) and I haven't felt the urge to listen to it, then delete
3) listen and like: could be immediate purchase, or a 2-6 month grower and I'll purchase

I just leave the window open sometimes, but I'm not actually using or sharing for this period.

Does that make sense?

I'm not really trying to defend myself, just clarifying. I do think, however, that this is the only way to be an empowered consumer and avoid being a straight up thief. If everyone did this, the music that record companies released would probably be better. Who knows. But there are many bands that never would have earned a purchase from me if I wasn't able to listen to the album first, even with pretty great reviews. I understand that I am probably in the extreme minorities as far as music downloaders go, however.
__________________
bram is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2009, 03:26 PM   #30
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
Danny Boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Harvard Supermodel Activist of the Decade Runner-Up
Posts: 9,138
Local Time: 07:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bram View Post
Does that make sense?

I'm not really trying to defend myself, just clarifying.
Yep. And like I said, not judging, just opining.
__________________

__________________
Danny Boy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:56 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com