Brian Eno is involved too ?

[Aygo]

I'm not saying I am a better producer then them. I'm saying that I could have done a better job than them on five songs from Achtung Baby.

you're funny!

 

[Earnie Shavers]

I'm all for remastering everything.

 

[ahittle]

I don't know. AB seemed like it was trying to avoid the obvious guitar parts and sounds. To some it sounds buried, but I think it's brilliant. The live performances do what they have to do, but I am glad the record doesn't sound that way.

 

[ahittle]

Oh, and Bowie, while being an interesting fellow, hasn't exactly been the musical gold standard for at least 25 years. I don't know if I would follow his advice either.

Lot of clunkers in that man's catalog.

 

[Canadiens1131]

Oh, and Bowie, while being an interesting fellow, hasn't exactly been the musical gold standard for at least 25 years. I don't know if I would follow his advice either.

Lot of clunkers in that man's catalog.

PLEEEEEEEEASE

 

[LMP]

Oh, and Bowie, while being an interesting fellow, hasn't exactly been the musical gold standard for at least 25 years. I don't know if I would follow his advice either.

Lot of clunkers in that man's catalog.

PLEEEEEEEEASE

 

[No spoken words]

I'm saying that I could have done a better job than them on five songs from Achtung Baby.

Oh, wow. This is my favorite post in ages.

 

[ahittle]

PLEEEEEEEEASE

1983: Let's Dance
1984: Tonight
1987: Never Let Me Down
1989: Tin Machine
1991: Tin Machine II
1993: Black Tie White Noise
1995: Outside
1997: Earthling
1999: 'hours...'
2002: Heathen
2003: Reality

Last 25 years of Bowie. Some good stuff here, but some duds as well. He was just finishing up his masterpiece Tin Machine II when he said that The Fly should be re-recorded.

 

[phillyfan26]

So, for you, texture is all about the "missing" riffs we can hear better in the live versions... okay...

I don't even understand what you mean by that. I didn't try to redefine texture, I tried to describe how they misused it and eliminated the riffs. I said that you can't hear much of the guitar on Achtung Baby. You don't think Even Better Than the Real Thing would have been better had you been able to hear the riff that you can hear live? You don't think the live outro to UTEOTW (which is in the studio version, almost inaudibly) is better than the album version? You don't think Zoo Station having a chorus riff live is better? If you don't, then I guess it's just opinion vs. opinion.

 

[phillyfan26]

Where did the band say they wanted to re-record the The Fly? Is that in U2 by U2 or something? I havent read through that book yet. Otherwise I have never heard that before. Even that isnt necessarily a product of the production. That could be they wanted to change lyrics, etc.. Strange though, that they would pick a song that they were not happy with as the first single for the album.

It was in U2 by U2. He said he loved his exploration into irony in the lyrics. They did mean the production on that song. The Edge said they finished producing it at the eleventh hour, I believe in the mastering room. They recorded extra parts on a four-track. They picked it as the single for a specific reason, because that riff, that voice, didn't sound like normal U2. It doesn't mean it wasn't finished.

They didnt run out of time with Achtung, they set a deadline to finish otherwise they would have been in the studio for years. They do this with every single album or they would never finish anything. That doesnt translate to the production was bad??? U2 sits there with the producer and listens to what they have done over and over, if they felt it wasnt right it would not have ended up on the album that way. Edge commented at the time that he was into industrial music, he was trying to get away from the standard guitar sounds and the band was trying to get away from what U2 had done previously. Bono said they were making a dark record. Thats what I hear, changing the mix on the guitar creates more of a murkiness to alot of it. I think thats what they were going for. You may have wanted the guitar to be a different way in the mix personally. But that doesnt translate to thats the way the band wanted it or that they were unhappy with the finished product. I dont think they were at all and I have never read they thought the production on Achtung was subpar in any form.

POP is a bad example. They completely ran out of time due to the tour. That is why it was unfinished and that has been mentioned MANY times by the band. Thats not the fault of the production specifically though. If you read back at my posts in this very thread I even mentioned this from the get go. Did I say if its officially released its the sound they were going for. But you take away POP and that is probably the case for most of what they have put out there.

I'm sorry if I've never thought of UTEOTW being the same in tone as So Cruel. I've always thought it made a lot more sense and sounded much better live. In fact, I place it as their best live song ever besides The Fly. I think at this point we're delving into more of opinion than anything. I'll just say I've heard very few who were partial to the studio versions of UTEOTW.

Pop is a unique case, but I do think it has some parallels. Just because they voluntarily set that deadline doesn't mean they didn't have trouble dealing with it as an obstacle. Bono literally said, in U2 by U2, "We'd run out of time." Edge described having a mess to deal with in mastering because of the insanity at the deadline.

Look, they think highly of it. It's true. But just because they like the album doesn't mean they think it couldn't have been better. I think that's a bit of a logical fallicy. Especially considering some of those snippets.

 

[phillyfan26]

you're funny!

I'm not denying that they have a lot of value to the band. Eno and Lanois certainly bring an element that I can't, in that they are accomplished musicians, and can get in there and work with the band to come up with new ideas. And they consistently have produced great albums.

All I think is that they butchered parts of a few songs on that album. I think where that sonic landscape and texture helped a song like The Unforgettable Fire, it hurt Until the End of the World.

 

[Blue Room]

It was in U2 by U2. He said he loved his exploration into irony in the lyrics. They did mean the production on that song. The Edge said they finished producing it at the eleventh hour, I believe in the mastering room. They recorded extra parts on a four-track. They picked it as the single for a specific reason, because that riff, that voice, didn't sound like normal U2. It doesn't mean it wasn't finished.



I'm sorry if I've never thought of UTEOTW being the same in tone as So Cruel. I've always thought it made a lot more sense and sounded much better live. In fact, I place it as their best live song ever besides The Fly. I think at this point we're delving into more of opinion than anything. I'll just say I've heard very few who were partial to the studio versions of UTEOTW.

Pop is a unique case, but I do think it has some parallels. Just because they voluntarily set that deadline doesn't mean they didn't have trouble dealing with it as an obstacle. Bono literally said, in U2 by U2, "We'd run out of time." Edge described having a mess to deal with in mastering because of the insanity at the deadline.

Look, they think highly of it. It's true. But just because they like the album doesn't mean they think it couldn't have been better. I think that's a bit of a logical fallicy. Especially considering some of those snippets.

Could you please point me to the page number where they talk about the production lacking on The Fly in U2 by U2, I dont want to have to weed through it to look for it. But for the sake of argument. So they ran out of time to do it the way they wanted because of their deadline. How is that the fault of the producer? Like I said before, U2 sat down and listened to how it sounded before they released it. If there was something they didnt like at the time they would have most likely changed it. Especially if they were unhappy with almost half the album or the production was lacking on half the album. Its sort of funny looking back, because Lanois won a Grammy for producing Achtung Baby. Also, I wonder if we are venturing more into how the album was mixed and not so much production which are not the same thing obivously.

The rest of your post, you are correct, its a complete matter opinion. My response was more of your ascertion that you could have done a better job producing those 5 songs. Thats still a big WOW, to me. But I'm not going to keep arguing about it. I guess U2 should send you your plane ticket to Morocco so the next album is produced right.

 

[Matthew_Page2000]

Can I be excited about one aspect of Eno and Lanois'
production and not another? Or is that too nuanced for
interference? Are we just going to fight each other and
be didactic?
Ok, I'm excited about what Eno and Lanois will bring
to the actual crafting and writing of the new music.
They're partially responsible for the great songs on
UF, JT, AB, Zooropa and ATYCLB. They clearly
inspire the band in a way that other producers
don't. Without them U2 wouldn't be the band
they are now.

I'm not excited about their actual "production"
work. U2 albums have always had great songs
without sounding great. You get a lot of murkiness
(is that a word?) of the unintentional sort.
Achtung Baby is my favorite album of all time but
there are production and mastering problems galore.
UTEOTW is a masterpiece but it just doesn't sound
that good on the album.
On the other hand if some other producer was with
U2 in Berlin and Dublin maybe UTEOTW wouldn't
exist at all...

 

[RademR]

I was in favor of trying something new with Rubin, but this is probably the second best news. I don't mind Lanois or Eno, look at their past catalog with U2. Pretty strong.

 

[Chill Mike D]

This Eno interview from 95 right around OS1's release is strikingly similar to the descriptions of what they're doing now.

The recordings were so fruitful that Eno proposed more. After the ''Zoo TV'' tour, the band returned to the studio -- without an agenda, he said, or a specific project in mind. From the sessions' 25 hours of taped experimentation came ''Soundtracks,'' which reflects both the band's pop instincts and Eno's predilection for ethereal, ''ambient'' music that moves slowly and doesn't demand conscious attention.

...

In order to guide U2 toward a more exploratory way of making music, Eno devoted considerable time to preproduction. He generated a number of sequences and rhythm patterns, which were ready to use at a moment's notice. He decorated the walls with rare cloths from Africa, India and the Arab world. He installed a huge monitor and stockpiled a wide range of videos. ''When things started getting dull, you'd just pop in a different tape,'' he said.

 

[Clawgrabber]

(Bowie) was just finishing up his masterpiece Tin Machine II when he said that The Fly should be re-recorded.

OH SNAP! That's the best argument ender I've ever heard.

"Case dismissed, your honor."

I hope you are a lawyer, because I would hire you.

 

[Clawgrabber]

I'm not excited about their actual "production"
work. U2 albums have always had great songs
without sounding great. You get a lot of murkiness
(is that a word?) of the unintentional sort.
Achtung Baby is my favorite album of all time but
there are production and mastering problems galore.

se, i cannot agree with this statement at all. perhaps i could see your point with ANY of the other albums they produced with U2, but for me Achtung is their absolute masterpiece. And of the albums produced by Eno and Lanois, this is the one that comes across as closest to perfection.

scratch that... it IS perfection.

 

[doctorwho]

Eno/Lanois, back again...what a freakin surprise.

But you make it sound like a bad thing.

The U2/Eno/Lanois (or variations thereof) have led to UF, JT, AB and ATYCLB. Eno and/or Lanois also had a hand in "Zooropa" and HTDAAB. These albums are not only amongst U2's best-selling, but also most awarded and critically acclaimed. That means fans, critics and U2's fellow musicians approve of these efforts.

I agree in that I'd like to see U2 do some rocking songs now (while they still have enough youth to pull off a rocking song) and that Rubin may have brought that out of them, U2 never really works that way. Their best releases are usually out of step with everyone else. JT was released when hair metal bands and pop singers dominated. AB was released right as grunge took off. ATYCLB was released when pop stars were everywhere. HTDAAB was released when R&B/rap artists could get #1 hit just be sneezing to a beat. And Eno/Lanois help U2 to get to that "other sound". So while the next album might not be as rocking as we hope, given how well the last 2 albums sold, given the wild success of the tours, and given the number of awards received, U2's career hardly needs reviving. They are once again where they were in 1990 - time to recreate. And I'm not sure if Rubin is THE man to help them do that. I think he'd be best utilized near the end of the recordings, to give the songs that extra edge and transformation, but Lanois and Eno may help U2 a lot more now.

Plus, don't forget Lillywhite's contribution over the years. He seems to bring out that rocking side of U2 as well. If Lanois, Eno and Lillywhite help U2 to create, Rubin can bring it all together at the end. That might mean a great album (and if not, at least a very different album, which is what people here seem to want anyway).