Bono(himself) challenges me to a debate:by Dave Marsh

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buzzkill27

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Dave Marsh is a long time rock n roll critic and journalist (Rolling Stone) who has also hosted radio gigs over the years..in this article there is a passing mention of the new album being released in January...I'm not reading too much into this but at the same time I thought some of you might be interested in reading the article which is interesting in and of itself...I am sorry if this is posted in the wrong forum.. if it is I'm sure it will be moved to a different one..enjoy

Dave Marsh: Bono (Himself) Challenges Me to a Debate
 
i really like the sound of January. Hopefully that's what the band told Mr. Marsh.
 
I really hate this cinic stance in some critics, I realise it can be popular in some kind of audience, but I always smell the scent of envy behind this kind of comments. Frankly, stating that U2 spoke to them just to get their places in a couch...., I think it says more about himself than about the band, and all this story about the debate, it was in May, right? why airing it in October? or is it that Mr. Marsh needs some kind of promotion now?
I would like the new album released in January, but I don't give a twig for any statement in such an article.
 
I liked the article - dude's got a point there about celebrity politics. I'd tune in for a debate on that topic, Bono or not.
 
Marien said:
I really hate this cinic stance in some critics, I realise it can be popular in some kind of audience, but I always smell the scent of envy behind this kind of comments. Frankly, stating that U2 spoke to them just to get their places in a couch...., I think it says more about himself than about the band, and all this story about the debate, it was in May, right? why airing it in October? or is it that Mr. Marsh needs some kind of promotion now?
I would like the new album released in January, but I don't give a twig for any statement in such an article.
Click to expand...


Exactly. :up:

I like how this guy loses himself in self-pity towards the end of his article, stating he probably wouldn't "win" in such a debate. Did he get cold feet because Bono proposed the debate and insisted upon having it, something Mr. Marsh might not have thought about? In my opinion, the article speaks for Bono and against the guy who wrote it, his obvious bitterness is only one indicator for this. Interesting topic in general, but this is a useless article by a random person who is only cynical and bitter. His dislike for Bono is the only thing that comes across in this article.
 
Celebrities and rock stars provided a big P.R. push for the end-to-apartheid campaign in the 1980's, and their goals were realized. Of course, many, many, other more instrumental players were involved, but I don't think the celebrity-led political pressure hurt.
 
It doesn't say that Bono told him the album will be out in January; it just says that the album has been pushed back to January, which we all know already from the U2.com story (which said sometime in 2009).
 
Yeah this would be an interesting debate regardless of Bono's involvement. I kind of agree with this guy that celebrity politics are generally pretty ineffective.
 
Bono to debate Dave Marsh????

I just recently came upon this article . Very interesting . I'm sure most of you know of Dave Marsh... He wrote (or still writes ?) for Rolling Stone ..wrote the story of Bruce Springsteen.... He is married to Barbara Carr (Jon Landau Management-Bruce Springsteen).
Let me say first that I love Bruce , I say this because when Dave Marsh wrote Born to Run ,The story of Bruce Springsteen, he left out a lot of facts.. .... please we all know that Bruce is no "Saint in the City"..and thats OK...I don't think anyone thinks he is ...... it's just that Dave Marsh sort of sees things the way he wants ...but what does he have against Bono? I was really surprised to read how hostile he was about Bono... granted Bono even puts down ' Bono'... but to say that all Bono ( and Bob Geldorf )have been doing all these years has been for nothing ... come on ...."to save ONE life(and there are thousands)is to save the world".... and not disputing that there is still so much to be done about the problems of the world....so yeah bring on the debate .... and Bono let him eat his words ..if anyone can do it .. you can!!!!

Celebrity Politics
Bono (Himself) Challenges Me to a Debate
By DAVE MARSH

On a perfectly pleasant evening at the end of May, my colleague Gavin Martin and I were sitting with most of the E Street Band and a few dozen others in the bar of the Merion Hotel in Dublin after a Springsteen show. It was getting on towards midnight. The room was conversationally loud. I was drinking red wine because I can’t stand Guinness, never mind my last name.

The noise level rose noticeably as another troupe entered. It was U2, in full, and their manager, Paul McGuinness. Gavin and I looked at one another in trepidation. We knew what probably came next and sure enough, ‘round the corner of the couch came a man dressed in a ginger suit with ginger hair, possibly the recent victim of some surgery but nonetheless recognizable as Bono Himself.

Himself did not plop down on the couch—there wasn’t room and both Gavin and I have trained ourselves against obeisance even to godlike celebrities. So Bono leaned over and began to engage us in conversation. He spewed out theories, analyses, opinions and attitudes. All he got back were monosyllables and mumbles. We weren’t talked out, exactly. Maybe kind of dumbfounded, that He was living out such a perfect caricature of himself.

That’s a little unfair because He did eventually ask what we were working on. I don’t remember what Gavin said, because I was busy inventorying what I didn’t want to talk about: Not my book about why American Idol is evil (because I feared the response) and not the one about the civil rights movement (because I didn’t want to lose my temper about that moronic songs that says Martin Luther King did not lose his “pride” when he was assassinated, as if MLK were a preening, pretentious pop star). So I said, “Actually, I’ve been thinking a lot lately about celebrity politics and how ineffective they are.”

I have been. I started at No Nukes (the MUSE concerts) which did succeed, with help from Three Mile Island, in shutting down the U.S. nuclear power industry for 25 years. But after that, I couldn’t think of a problem that actually gained a solution from celebrity involvement: AIDS is a bigger crisis than ever, hunger is rampant precisely where hunger was rampant at the time of Live Aid, nuclear power is making a comeback in the States, and celebrity endorsements failed to elect the last several Presidents. (Which is one reason the McCain-Palin complaint that Obama is nothing but a celebrity is preposterous—they wish.)

Then again, my thinking wasn’t so sharp that night. Bono seized my statement and, with a look of determination, declared: “I think I know something about that. And you’re dead wrong.” I said, well, not as far as I could see. He said, “No. It does work…I think we should have a debate about this, Dave. A public debate.”

I responded that I had a satellite radio show called Kick Out the Jams, two hours every Sunday, and we could do that debate any week he’d like. He said that sounded good to Him, I said I’d put the folks at Sirius to work on it that very night. We parted soon after. A weird story, I thought, but put in a call to Sirius just in case.

He had plenty of wiggle room, Gavin being my only witness. But the next night, Bono told my wife, “Tell Dave not to forget about our debate.” Paul McGuinness was standing right next to them, too.

U2’s New York office took a couple weeks to get back and then said that the debate would happen, after the band completed recording its new album. (The release date has now been pushed back to January.)

I figure, if it does happen, I can’t exactly win—celebrity counts for something, after all—even with the facts on my side. I also think it’ll be fun, and some additional listeners (and readers—RRC will of course provide a transcript) will get the point. Which is empowerment of those who are not celebrated, who are in fact the wretched of this Earth. Those people have voices, too, and the solution to many of these problems is to hear them, speaking for themselves, not through a bullhorn controlled by Bono and Bob Geldof into the ears of politicians who are deaf as a matter of principle.

And if it doesn’t happen, believe you me, I’ll have even more fun. I’m thinking that, now that the record is due in January, the time to begin the count for Kick Out the Jams Held Hostage is probably March 1—it’s not only a Sunday next year, it’s also my birthday.

Of course, I’d rather present the debate...

Dave Marsh (along with Lee Ballinger) edits Rock & Rap Confidential, one of CounterPunch's favorite newsletters, now available for free by emailing: rockrap@aol.com. Marsh's definitive and monumental biography of Bruce Springsteen has just been reissued, with 12,000 new words, under the title Two Hearts. Marsh can be reached at: marsh6@optonline.net

This article originally appeared in Rock & Rap Confidential.
 
I've already commented on this article in the album forum, I think it's a poor piece of writing by a bitter and cynical man. I'm glad Bono challenged him, and now it seems that the guy is getting cold feet because towards the end of this article he goes into self-pity mode. Good for Bono, bad for him I'd say.
 
Varitek said:
I liked the article - dude's got a point there about celebrity politics. I'd tune in for a debate on that topic, Bono or not.
Click to expand...

As annoyed as I am about Bono these days, I have to admire the guy for trying. You gotta try to change things. I think Bono's influence on the disgusting Bush administration has allowed one of the few decent things Bush has done -- aid for Africa; the other might be allowing illegal immigrants to become legalized. (I'm not saying it's a simple issue, but it's amazing that Republicans won't tolerate Mexicans but will accept Sarah Palin potentially being the next President.)

Anyway, I, too, found the guy both gutsy in facing down Bono and arrogant; it's like he has more respect for Axl Rose not giving a damn about anyone than Bono's efforts. I'm very proud of Bono's DATA work. I also find it hilarious that the guy is trying to full take credit for the debate as standing up for the little guy (sorta like Bono trying to represent African interests, no?) when Bono suggested it.

It's good to give celebrities hard questions, though. It doesn't happen enough. De Rogatis caved when he interviewed Bono in response to his scathing review of HTDAAB.
 
^ didn't know about your post(sorry) and I totally agree with you about Dave Marsh being cynical and bitter..... and other descriptives which I would rather not write here .....
 
This sounds like another 'knowitall' who thinks they know what their talking about and "have all the facts" but just by reading the short report just goes to show he hasn't got a clue! :tsk: If this debate actually takes place, Bono'll run rings around him!! :corn:

By the way, I've never heard of this Dave Marsh before now, only buy Rolling Stone if I come across an article about U2! :wink:
 
When I saw this in another thread I felt a strong smell of envy and cynism in the guy, and a lot of attention seek that made me think that, for some reason, he needs some promotion right now. I understand that not everybody likes Bono, but writing an article about your dislike, and only that, wouldn't be called journalism.
I would like to listen to Bono in a debate about this subject because it's quite controversial and I have confidence in his arguments, but I would prefer to watch Bono contend against a much more enlightened opponent, someone who wasn't using him to get some attention from an audience. Who is this guy? I don't know if he's got any popularity in the US, but I know he's a complete unkown for the rest of the world, he was at the Bruce Springsteen concert because his wife works for Bruce's office and just reading this article I can say he doesn't prepare the topics he's got to write about.
 
Muldfeld said:
As annoyed as I am about Bono these days, I have to admire the guy for trying. You gotta try to change things. I think Bono's influence on the disgusting Bush administration has allowed one of the few decent things Bush has done -- aid for Africa; the other might be allowing illegal immigrants to become legalized. (I'm not saying it's a simple issue, but it's amazing that Republicans won't tolerate Mexicans but will accept Sarah Palin potentially being the next President.)

Anyway, I, too, found the guy both gutsy in facing down Bono and arrogant; it's like he has more respect for Axl Rose not giving a damn about anyone than Bono's efforts. I'm very proud of Bono's DATA work. I also find it hilarious that the guy is trying to full take credit for the debate as standing up for the little guy (sorta like Bono trying to represent African interests, no?) when Bono suggested it.

It's good to give celebrities hard questions, though. It doesn't happen enough. De Rogatis caved when he interviewed Bono in response to his scathing review of HTDAAB.
Click to expand...


How much this guy is inflating his interaction with Bono aside, the issue of celebrity politics is an interesting one and one that works sometimes better than others. I think for short term, one-off campaigns (ending apartheid, for example) it works better than prolonged campaigns, but I've done no real research on the subject and I doubt anyone else on this thread has either.

I have very mixed feelings about Bono's work - coming from an economic development background, I disagree with Jeff Sachs, his main advisor. I think Sachs (and Bono of course) are well intentioned, which is all well and good, but may be unintentionally causing harm by advocating the wrong approach. I'm not certain on this, because I'm not certain (and no one is) what the right approach is. But Sachs is a pop economist who doesn't have enough depth to be right. I worry, as others have mentioned re: Red, that doing the wrong thing or something comepletely ineffective will prevent people from doing something that's actually good, even if it doesn't cause direct harm.

On the other hand, I'm incredibly proud that he cares about these issues enough to try and do something about them, and I admire his passion (even if I wish he'd finish the damn album and play some more varied setlists instead of ones that lead into the same old speach).

As for the Bush thing, I don't think that without Bono Bush would have given no aid to Africa. Bono certainly encouraged Bush, but Bush's evangelical outlook means that he probably would have done this anyway. And a president who wasn't Bush (Gore, Kerry, whoever) would surely have given as much or more aid to Africa without stupid pro-life, anti-birth control strings attached, and without Iraq competing for funding.
 
hhmmmm

just catching this. have to look at the article.....

at least from past articles etc, I always liked Dave MArsh....

I did't get to read his Bruce bio, but did read his Who bio which i really enjoyed.......
Off hand, from your reactions I am surprised that he seems to dislike Bono so much.....
 
He has written a quite a couple of anti-Bono articles in the past. One of those was published just a week before this conversation happened, as reported by the other journalist back then.
 
printed out the piece and took home to read....

wow.....I had NO idea he harbored such nasty feelings towards Bono. :ohmy: ..........

I know there is controversy around Bono's approach to aid work.
I never got to read the ....? Vanity Fair Special RED issue where they -- if i remember correctly highlighted some of the projects RED was helping to fund.... which would help me to partly assess some of what he/they were/are doing.

:scratch: I don't quite get why he'd be envious of Bono- it's not like he's a long-time Musician who appeared on the scene around U2's time, and thought he got left in the dust (re: critics & fans) by them - unfairly .

In the USA (I'd say) he's a pretty well known Music Journalist. Heck, he's got the seeming camaraderie of Bruce & E ST..... written these big R&R books....I don't get why he would be cross-fields-of-work envious/jealous.
 
Muldfeld said:
As annoyed as I am about Bono these days, I have to admire the guy for trying. You gotta try to change things. I think Bono's influence on the disgusting Bush administration has allowed one of the few decent things Bush has done -- aid for Africa; the other might be allowing illegal immigrants to become legalized. (I'm not saying it's a simple issue, but it's amazing that Republicans won't tolerate Mexicans but will accept Sarah Palin potentially being the next President.)
Click to expand...

You praise Bush for this: "illegal immigrants to become legalized"

and then say that "Republicans won't tolerate Mexicans".
Isn't he a Republican? wha?? :coocoo:
 
BorderGirl said:
You praise Bush for this: "illegal immigrants to become legalized"

and then say that "Republicans won't tolerate Mexicans".
Isn't he a Republican? wha?? :coocoo:
Click to expand...

It is entirely possible for a Republican to not follow conservative ideals to the letter.
 
I have Marsh's Springsteen book. (the one that was written in the 80's)
It's good, he's a good writer but he's a an old fucking fart.
He has an old mindset and mostly, and I think people should consider this, he's a music journalist who probably understands Bono's aid work about as well as the average cynic.

Which isn't very well. Note his oblivious comment about American Idol.
In fact, that was one of the smartest things Bono could have done to give his issue exposure, and they way he did it, by himself, not playing any music, was expertly handled.

Yet, the old fucking dinosaur lamenting the end of the 70's, doesn't see it that way.
Big surprise. He probably hates U2's music as well. Rather listen to fucking The Eagles or some horrid shit. I won't apologize for Bono's annoying persona but I think Marsh is probably ignorant about what he's trying to get done. Like Varitek, maybe you have reservations about the way Bono is going about things, but to make a legit criticism, don't you have to have a grasp on what it is he's aiming to do?
 
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