An Assessment Of NLOTH In The Context Of U2's Career and U2's State of Relevance

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I just hate it when people complain about Bono writing lyrics like "baby baby baby" and talk about the 90's or whatever, and how cheesy it all has become....I'm not trying to play the "gotcha" game...I just think the complaining about the bridge in Crazy Tonight is a bit ridiculous :shrug:

I think you completely missed Laz's argument.
 
"The right to be ridiculous is something I hold dear" from Crazy Tonight and
"Napoleon in high heals/Josephine be careful of small men with big ideas" from SUC

How can you not love Bono taking the piss out of himself?

This album is, in my opinion, amazing. It is something again different and relevant from
U2...For those of you out there that have been around for the past 25-30 years with them as I have, remember the first impressions of AB - not all glowing. I think we are now in that realm...
 
It's not simply the lyrical content that's the problem. It's that sonically it sounds like it was transplanted from countless cheesy radio hits of the 80's; from the music to the vocal melody itself.

By contrast, the feeling of the CHORUS of Ultraviolet (where the "baby baby baby" is not just a disparate throwaway section like it is in Crazy Tonight), comes from a much more painful place. It's plaintive and desperate, and its simplicity works because it's a primal cry for help in the darkness.



i think the contrast is illuminating for both uses of the word -- in UV, it is despair; but in CT, it sounds like a burst of sunshine and joy, where they're using a simple word but imbuing it with meaning and emotion beyond it's dictionary definition because words are inadequate to describe the emotion that's being accessed. that's when the song takes flight, it's building up to that moment.

it's a moment of pure joy. is it cheesy? maybe. but i think that's down to personal taste. i don't have a problem when the bicycles fly in "E.T." i don't have a problem when Dev Patel gets the right answer at the end of "Slumdog." in fact, that's what i love about those movies. uplifting doesn't have to be dumb, and there's been ample wordplay and complex melody that's lead up to the "baby, baby, baby," so it feels earned to me. so this isn't a dumb moment to me.

it might be expected, because lots of songs designed to be joyful try to do this, but that doesn't mean it doesn't succeed better than most songs.

so, no right or wrong here. i'm just hearing something different.
 
Now, I haven't heard the new album, but GOYB was pretty insulting to many fans, including myself, except for the "Let Me In The Sound" part. This isn't ground-breaking.

The fact is that Eno and Lanois let on that this was an incredible album and the band has suggested that this could be their best. So, it was reasonable to hope for something along the quality of JT and AB. If fans accept that the band's best days are truly behind it, then we'd be less interested in keeping up to date and even in buying albums. I KNOW the band can put out amazing work to rival those 2 best albums, but has been making many wrong decisions for commercial viability. The band hasn't pursued this with guts and ferocity of creativity as it had those 2 songs, based on GOYB, and that's a shame.


You posted this on March 9th, almost a week after the album's release - and you still haven't heard it?

It's difficult to accept any of your comments when you start out with that statement.

I like GOYB, don't love it, but like it. It's a fun rock song. More importantly, it really flows on the album. Without it, I think NLOTH would be missing something. Plus, GOYB is not at all representative of the album. I think this was showcased by U2's more recent performances of other NLOTH songs.

Is this their best? You know, U2 have said this for every single album - and that includes JT. I have an old JT era article where U2 members stated "this is our best to date". It's a catch phrase. They are not going to say, "Well, this is no 'Acthung Baby', but it's still pretty good." No one says that - especially after devoting several years of one's life to creating it.

I listened to UF along with NLOTH on Sunday - I had my CD player on random, so the two albums were merged. They flowed brilliantly. As UF is in my Top 2 for U2 albums, I really find myself loving NLOTH. Yet, as I write this, I don't want to give the impression this is a regression. It has elements of the past, but a fresh, modern sound - one that keeps them relevant (or one definition of relevant).

I also enjoyed HTDAAB. It had some weaknesses and I skip those. But I loved some of the more adventurous songs coupled with the "classic" sound - it flowed better than it did on ATYCLB. Barring a few songs, ATYCLB really seemed too "safe". I didn't feel that at the time, but seeing what they could do on HTDAAB and now NLOTH, I do feel it's true.

Regardless, at this point in time, U2 have nothing to prove. They will open at #1 around the world. Their tour will sell out. They've already had a Top 40 hit with GOYB around the world (and this includes the U.S.). All of this is just extra on a very illustrious career. The fact that NLOTH can sound like "old" U2, yet still sound current is what keeps me interested.

Ultraviolet is one of my favorite U2 songs....

I just hate it when people complain about Bono writing lyrics like "baby baby baby" and talk about the 90's or whatever, and how cheesy it all has become....I'm not trying to play the "gotcha" game...I just think the complaining about the bridge in Crazy Tonight is a bit ridiculous :shrug:

I did not comment on that aspect of lyrics in this thread, but I admit to being guilty of doing so before. But I bring up those lyrics in defense of when someone zooms in on one line (e.g., "heavy as a truck") to dismiss an entire song. The example I just gave comes from a song that also has some outstanding lyrics, but people dismiss those to make some weak point.

I also bring up some weaker lyrics when people discuss how Bono's writing is "worse" now. It's not - he's a pop or pop/rock writer. At times, there will be this universal appeal to his words. At times, the words are very personal. And at times they are just fun or self-deprecating fun. It's a rock pop song! Should all of his songs be near Shakespearean?

So while I like "Ultraviolet" as well, that song is used as an example of a pop rock song that has some weaker lyrics, yet is still an outstanding song.
 
i think the contrast is illuminating for both uses of the word -- in UV, it is despair; but in CT, it sounds like a burst of sunshine and joy, where they're using a simple word but imbuing it with meaning and emotion beyond it's dictionary definition because words are inadequate to describe the emotion that's being accessed. that's when the song takes flight, it's building up to that moment.

it's a moment of pure joy. is it cheesy? maybe. but i think that's down to personal taste. i don't have a problem when the bicycles fly in "E.T." i don't have a problem when Dev Patel gets the right answer at the end of "Slumdog." in fact, that's what i love about those movies. uplifting doesn't have to be dumb, and there's been ample wordplay and complex melody that's lead up to the "baby, baby, baby," so it feels earned to me. so this isn't a dumb moment to me.

it might be expected, because lots of songs designed to be joyful try to do this, but that doesn't mean it doesn't succeed better than most songs.

so, no right or wrong here. i'm just hearing something different.

I like this post, so I'm going to respond by putting a couple of pictures right here: :up: :heart:
 
i have nothing more to add other than i really like the first post in this thread.

good stuff. very well thought out. :up:
 
No-one has commented on that in the few months I've been a member, which for me right now marks you out as having the best musical palette of anyone here :up: Views on NLOTH?

Ha!

Liking it the most out of the three albums from this third era of U2. That isn't saying much, though, since I pretty much disliked the last two. Still, the new one is a great moody experience. The early part of the album is sort of epic and textured, like the best stuff on UF. The middle songs on No Line I actually love. Not sure why. They just strike me as being good melodies and good lyrics, and I like when U2 play around with structures. "Stand Up Comedy" is my least favorite of them, as it sounds, lyrically and vocally, akin to the Berlin session tapes from 1990. Like it wasn't fully fleshed out. But I still like it. "Fez-Being Born" is my personal favorite on the new album.

I'm sure my tastes aren't unique, but when U2 go epic, I like the pounding drums and searing vocals of a lot of the hated numbers on October. I'm really into "11 O'Clock Tick-Tock" and "Wire." Songs that, when played at high volume, sort of leave me breathless. I also really like their experimental side, so the moodiness of Achtung or the drunken-sounding synths on Zooropa or all the songs on Passengers really do it for me. There's enough reference to all my favorite U2 eras on the new one to make it interesting without being redundant. Time will tell, but I really like it a lot. Though, listening to side-one of Joshua Tree this morning, then going to No Line, I couldn't help but notice how naturally strong the Joshua songs were... they seemed effortless, whereas No Line feels like they had to work really hard to do something vibrant. I think they pulled it off, though.

I try not to write off bands or artists past their prime. Though Leonard Cohen had some weak middle albums, I tend to like his later period. Same with some later McCartney. There's a lot to write off with him throughout his solo career, but Chaos & Creation, as well as the new neo-psych Fireman album... great stuff. If U2 are past their relevance stage, I'm still willing to take it on an album-by-album basis. They've earned enough respect that I'm certain they can make a great record, when they don't dial it in.

Hope that wasn't too long-winded.
 
"The right to be ridiculous is something I hold dear" from Crazy Tonight and
"Napoleon in high heals/Josephine be careful of small men with big ideas" from SUC

How can you not love Bono taking the piss out of himself?

This album is, in my opinion, amazing. It is something again different and relevant from
U2...For those of you out there that have been around for the past 25-30 years with them as I have, remember the first impressions of AB - not all glowing. I think we are now in that realm...

Hmm EXACTLY for me too - my reaction to The Fly was identical to my Boots reaction; "is this it?" "Can't they fng pick a better opening single?"

And then I heard the whole album, and then listened a few more times, and history is repeating itself for me -- AB and NLOTH are the same DNA markers in my piddly ass history with this band that goes back to 1982.

44 and still loven' it!
 
Ha!

Liking it the most out of the three albums from this third era of U2. That isn't saying much, though, since I pretty much disliked the last two. Still, the new one is a great moody experience. The early part of the album is sort of epic and textured, like the best stuff on UF. The middle songs on No Line I actually love. Not sure why. They just strike me as being good melodies and good lyrics, and I like when U2 play around with structures. "Stand Up Comedy" is my least favorite of them, as it sounds, lyrically and vocally, akin to the Berlin session tapes from 1990. Like it wasn't fully fleshed out. But I still like it. "Fez-Being Born" is my personal favorite on the new album.

I'm sure my tastes aren't unique, but when U2 go epic, I like the pounding drums and searing vocals of a lot of the hated numbers on October. I'm really into "11 O'Clock Tick-Tock" and "Wire." Songs that, when played at high volume, sort of leave me breathless. I also really like their experimental side, so the moodiness of Achtung or the drunken-sounding synths on Zooropa or all the songs on Passengers really do it for me. There's enough reference to all my favorite U2 eras on the new one to make it interesting without being redundant. Time will tell, but I really like it a lot. Though, listening to side-one of Joshua Tree this morning, then going to No Line, I couldn't help but notice how naturally strong the Joshua songs were... they seemed effortless, whereas No Line feels like they had to work really hard to do something vibrant. I think they pulled it off, though.

I try not to write off bands or artists past their prime. Though Leonard Cohen had some weak middle albums, I tend to like his later period. Same with some later McCartney. There's a lot to write off with him throughout his solo career, but Chaos & Creation, as well as the new neo-psych Fireman album... great stuff. If U2 are past their relevance stage, I'm still willing to take it on an album-by-album basis. They've earned enough respect that I'm certain they can make a great record, when they don't dial it in.

Hope that wasn't too long-winded.

It was not, and clearly you have talent and history, and all sorts of music skillz, I have none. So I'll move off topic -- PM your response if you will -- but a person like you might help me better understand why one of my other favorite bands, the Goo Goo Dolls :reject: never seemed to get much acclaim or positive press-- sure it was mostly sugary candy pop stuff, but IMO it was damn good sugary candy pop and they played great live too.

Help a guy out will ya!
 
i agree. what i like best about "Get On Your Boots" is that it eviscerates much of the Muslim world for their treatment of women. when you keep 50% of your population under lock and key and birka and prevent them from driving cars, it's not surprising that the combined GNP of the world's Muslim nations will amount to less than Spain's.

it's a smart call to Muslim youth, in particular, to throw of the ways of their parents who continually blame their ills on easily caricatured "others" (the US, the Jews, the West, science, Hollywood, the gays, etc.) and instead engage in productive self-criticism that allows them to throw of the shackles of tradition and religiosity that has led the Muslim world into it's dire state, and to instead embrace all that modernity has to offer.

get rid of your angry boots, get on your sexy boots, and reclaim your beauty.

:up:

:up::up::up::applaud::applaud:
 
Ha!

Liking it the most out of the three albums from this third era of U2. That isn't saying much, though, since I pretty much disliked the last two. Still, the new one is a great moody experience. The early part of the album is sort of epic and textured, like the best stuff on UF. The middle songs on No Line I actually love. Not sure why. They just strike me as being good melodies and good lyrics, and I like when U2 play around with structures. "Stand Up Comedy" is my least favorite of them, as it sounds, lyrically and vocally, akin to the Berlin session tapes from 1990. Like it wasn't fully fleshed out. But I still like it. "Fez-Being Born" is my personal favorite on the new album.

I'm sure my tastes aren't unique, but when U2 go epic, I like the pounding drums and searing vocals of a lot of the hated numbers on October. I'm really into "11 O'Clock Tick-Tock" and "Wire." Songs that, when played at high volume, sort of leave me breathless. I also really like their experimental side, so the moodiness of Achtung or the drunken-sounding synths on Zooropa or all the songs on Passengers really do it for me. There's enough reference to all my favorite U2 eras on the new one to make it interesting without being redundant. Time will tell, but I really like it a lot. Though, listening to side-one of Joshua Tree this morning, then going to No Line, I couldn't help but notice how naturally strong the Joshua songs were... they seemed effortless, whereas No Line feels like they had to work really hard to do something vibrant. I think they pulled it off, though.

I try not to write off bands or artists past their prime. Though Leonard Cohen had some weak middle albums, I tend to like his later period. Same with some later McCartney. There's a lot to write off with him throughout his solo career, but Chaos & Creation, as well as the new neo-psych Fireman album... great stuff. If U2 are past their relevance stage, I'm still willing to take it on an album-by-album basis. They've earned enough respect that I'm certain they can make a great record, when they don't dial it in.

Hope that wasn't too long-winded.

:up: I know what you mean about JT, but we do also know how hard they worked those songs back then. Perhaps in time NLOTH will begin to have that effortless feel as well?

I can't help but feel the middle songs are the sound of fear: fear that the album won't be well received, fear that it won't sell bucketloads, fear that U2 won't create even a ripple on the radio. When I'm not listening to NLOTH right through, I enjoy GOYB, and Crazy Tonight is passable, but Stand Up Comedy doesn't do anything but instil fear inside of me - fear that U2 will actually think it stands up to radio play and a single release! I would love to have heard how the album flowed before CT and SUC were squeezed in there.
 
About the jt freeflowing thing, I got that too when I went back and listened to it after nloth's release. But I must say, I think jt is unique in that aspect among u2 albums. Even achtung doesn't have that effortless quality. JT, I think was a stage/level for u2 that very few bands reach.
 
About the jt freeflowing thing, I got that too when I went back and listened to it after nloth's release. But I must say, I think jt is unique in that aspect among u2 albums. Even achtung doesn't have that effortless quality. JT, I think was a stage/level for u2 that very few bands reach.

"One" sounds rather effortless, even if not everything on AB does. I like those sort of invisible productions, where you are completely blown away and you have no idea how they did that, nor do you even care to know. I feel that way about Fellini's 8 & 1/2 too. Like, whatever trickery was involved, it was done with such mastery that it just overwhelms and works invisibly, without making you ask yourself to break it all down. JT definitely does that for most of the album, and Achtung Baby does, as well. The new album has moments like that, for me. Where the writing, rhythm, production, all that... it seems to have come fully-conceived, not needing to be questioned.
 
It was not, and clearly you have talent and history, and all sorts of music skillz, I have none. So I'll move off topic -- PM your response if you will -- but a person like you might help me better understand why one of my other favorite bands, the Goo Goo Dolls :reject: never seemed to get much acclaim or positive press-- sure it was mostly sugary candy pop stuff, but IMO it was damn good sugary candy pop and they played great live too.

Help a guy out will ya!

You know, I'm not all that familiar with their music, to be honest. They seem to be a pretty big band who has more than a passing cult audience. The Goo Goo Dolls might just be one of those bands that critics love to hate, but that audiences and pop radio endorse with vigor.
 
NamkcuR, I have to say that was one of the best posts I've seen in a really long time. I'm around your age and got into U2 the same time as you. You can't beat listening to these amazing albums (AB, JT, etc.) at the age we listened to them. I also had a laugh when you were talking about listening to AB at night on a bus. I had a similar experience on an over night drive with my family.
 
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