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Old 02-16-2014, 08:49 PM   #16
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With that said, I do wish they were still more interested in subverting instead of competing / fitting in with the mainstream. It was at that point their music started (to a certain extent) to be less inspiring.
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Old 02-16-2014, 08:52 PM   #17
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So which ones are defined as forgettable and critical failures? R&H, Pop, NLOTH? Does this define your "current method"?
I already regret acknowledging you, but here goes.

Rattle and Hum has hits and U2 classics. Pop had hits, regardless of the narrative revisionists like to promote.

No Line On The Horizon had neither. Maybe if they hadn't watered it down and struggled to make radio hits and had focused more on making good music it would have been better and they would have made some songs that actually were hits. Eno and Lanois complained that U2 were spending most of their time on working on intended hits at the expense of other songs. Who knows what could have been.

The intended hit don't fit musically or thematically, and 1983 Bono wouldn't have put them on. It's like replacing 4th of July and Elvis Presley and America with Love Comes Tumbling and Three Sunrises: they don't fit (though the UF b-sides are great, and the Crazy Tonight and Stand Up Comedy are not).
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Old 02-16-2014, 09:08 PM   #18
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Particularly the last minute or so from the above listed video. Just a thought. If they did, they wouldn't be second guessing themselves and that then causing all of the album delays.

This comment is not meant towards you, per se, but to everyone who says U2 is "second guessing" themselves.

What gives you that impression? Because it's taken a while for this album? Because U2 seem to be "mixing" more than before? If that's your answer, then I don't accept it.

Edge admitted to editing the over-indulgent bits. Immediately U2 fans claimed that this self-editing meant the "best parts" might be chopped and that U2 are limiting their experimentation and blah, blah. There's indulgence for the sake of indulgence, and then there's indulgence that benefits the art. In an era of massive illegal downloads and cherry-picking songs on iTunes, U2 still produces worldwide hits and Platinum albums. I will always defer to them over any fan's opinion here.

If U2 feel the album isn't ready, then it isn't ready. I imagine at this point in their lives, it's not quite the same as it was in their 20's. They have to find that graceful place that allows them to state key view points while still producing great music.

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It's interesting that attitude led the creation of classic albums while their current method of operation has led to forgettable records and critical failures.
I'm sure we'd disagree with the "critical failures" bit, but that's not my issue with this statement.

U2 released TUF in 1984. JT, as we all know, wasn't released until 1987. One person I knew said he thought U2 broke up as he hadn't heard anything new from them.

While R&H came out fairly quickly thereafter, I know countless people who consider that a "live album". Fair or not, that is the "casual fan" perspective. To those people, U2 took 4 years until AB. Then another 4 years from "Zooropa" to "Pop". While this album may hit the 5 year mark since the prior release, it's really not that shocking compared to the 3 and 4 year pace of their earlier releases.

Were U2 "second guessing" themselves back then too?

Oh, and I like "Stand Up Comedy". But even if you don't, I do not believe that song was intended to be a single. "Crazy Tonight" clearly was and not only is it terrible, it doesn't belong on the album. So I will agree with that view. But NLOTH also featured some brilliance, like the aforementioned MOS, the title track, "Breathe", "White As Snow", etc. I can accept a few clunkers on an otherwise great album. It's just that none of those songs were really radio-friendly.

Therefore, are you willing to accept a brilliant album that has songs that casual fan never will hear? Or are you willing to accept a very strong album that has that one or two hit songs? Because JT was that way, IMO.
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Old 02-16-2014, 09:12 PM   #19
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2014 Bono needs to consult 1983 Bono about the new album.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollow Island View Post
I already regret acknowledging you, but here goes.

Rattle and Hum has hits and U2 classics. Pop had hits, regardless of the narrative revisionists like to promote.

No Line On The Horizon had neither. Maybe if they hadn't watered it down and struggled to make radio hits and had focused more on making good music it would have been better and they would have made some songs that actually were hits. Eno and Lanois complained that U2 were spending most of their time on working on intended hits at the expense of other songs. Who knows what could have been.

The intended hit don't fit musically or thematically, and 1983 Bono wouldn't have put them on. It's like replacing 4th of July and Elvis Presley and America with Love Comes Tumbling and Three Sunrises: they don't fit (though the UF b-sides are great, and the Crazy Tonight and Stand Up Comedy are not).
So "current method" only meant the last album?

Because you did say forgettable records, and believe it or not the prior albums don't fit in that category, regardless of your personal tastes or not...



S
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Old 02-17-2014, 12:24 AM   #20
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Pop had hits? To my knowledge, in the US, Discothèque soared to top ten largely off of club play, got nothing on the radio or in physical sales, and crashed. The rest of the singles failed to make even that much of a dent. I know that it did better in Europe, but it's at least difficult to say that Pop had hits in 'murka.
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Old 02-17-2014, 01:51 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Hollow Island View Post
I already regret acknowledging you, but here goes.

Rattle and Hum has hits and U2 classics. Pop had hits, regardless of the narrative revisionists like to promote.

No Line On The Horizon had neither. Maybe if they hadn't watered it down and struggled to make radio hits and had focused more on making good music it would have been better and they would have made some songs that actually were hits. Eno and Lanois complained that U2 were spending most of their time on working on intended hits at the expense of other songs. Who knows what could have been.

The intended hit don't fit musically or thematically, and 1983 Bono wouldn't have put them on. It's like replacing 4th of July and Elvis Presley and America with Love Comes Tumbling and Three Sunrises: they don't fit (though the UF b-sides are great, and the Crazy Tonight and Stand Up Comedy are not).
Pop is considered a critical failure, and really had no hits on it [though I love the album]. Meanwhile, HTDAAB won 7 (?) Grammy's, had critical acclaim, had a huge hit, and won best album of the year.

You can say that you do not like their recent albums, and speculate that it is because U2 are trying to make radio hits and are second guessing themselves. But you cannot argue with facts. HTDAAB was a huge commercial success (as was ATYCLB, really) and Pop was not.

If you're just referring to NLOTH, I don't know what you mean by their 'current' methods, albums, failures... what other albums are you also thinking of?
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Old 02-17-2014, 06:52 AM   #22
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Sometimes I think a younger Bono would wanna kick the shit out of the present Bono.
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Old 02-17-2014, 07:14 AM   #23
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Pop is considered a critical failure, and really had no hits on it [though I love the album]. Meanwhile, HTDAAB won 7 (?) Grammy's, had critical acclaim, had a huge hit, and won best album of the year.

You can say that you do not like their recent albums, and speculate that it is because U2 are trying to make radio hits and are second guessing themselves. But you cannot argue with facts. HTDAAB was a huge commercial success (as was ATYCLB, really) and Pop was not.

If you're just referring to NLOTH, I don't know what you mean by their 'current' methods, albums, failures... what other albums are you also thinking of?
Actually Pop, like most U2 records, was very well reviewed by the critics. And it sold quite well in comparison to Bomb worldwide.

I'm going to even respond to bringing up the Grammy's as proof of quality.

Pop as a "critical failure", like R&H bombing, is a nice little piece of revisionist U2 history. If you mean to say that Pop was not as well received by fans, and didn't do as well commercially as most of the records that came before it...well that I agree with.

I also agree that U2 has been trying to make "radio hits". As they've been doing since before Boy.

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Old 02-17-2014, 07:19 AM   #24
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Sometimes I think a younger Bono would wanna kick the shit out of the present Bono.
Young Edge would want to kick the shit out of present Edge. Young Larry and Adam would want to kick the shit out of present Larry and Adam. Young Paul McG would look at his older self and say "YES!!!"
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Old 02-17-2014, 07:39 AM   #25
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Has any U2 album really been a critical failure? Not all of them are doted on, and NLOTH got a 4.2 from Pitchfork, but the general critical consensus about every U2 album (save maybe October?) tends to be that the album is at least decent.
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Old 02-17-2014, 07:42 AM   #26
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Has any U2 album really been a critical failure? Not all of them are doted on, and NLOTH got a 4.2 from Pitchfork, but the general critical consensus about every U2 album (save maybe October?) tends to be that the album is at least decent.
Exactly. Even the oft-disparaged R&H actually got good reviews. Yes, there were a few influential critics who took the band to task for their over seriousness, but most of the supposed R&H backlash was related to the movie, not the record.

The people who were most critical about Pop and R&H were U2, albeit in different ways. With Pop, they distanced themselves from the music itself; with R&H, they distanced themselves from the super serious, self important image they'd created of U2 (which actually started long before R&H), but as far as I know never publicly distanced themselves from the music itself as they did with Pop.
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Old 02-17-2014, 07:51 AM   #27
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Sometimes I think a younger Bono would wanna kick the shit out of the present Bono.
Yes, and my young self probably wants to kick the shit out of my present self, why, because young people usually have a hard time understanding people who grow up, get more mature and have different opinions, preferences and priorities as they become older.
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Old 02-17-2014, 08:37 AM   #28
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Yes, and my young self probably wants to kick the shit out of my present self, why, because young people usually have a hard time understanding people who grow up, get more mature and have different opinions, preferences and priorities as they become older.
Bingo!

I think the OP should just watch From the Sky Down where the band address the differences between youth and old age and it looks like the new album is ALL ABOUT THAT.
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Old 02-17-2014, 09:21 AM   #29
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Pop had hits! Revisionists are the ones who blast it! There were no issues! Everything went swimmingly! Damn you to hell, revisionist history! Damn you to hell!!!

All That You Can't Leave Behind and How To Dismantle An Atomic Bomb, however, had no such hits. Nobody likes these albums. They are highly forgettable. This is fact.

When you turn on your average radio station, do you hear them still playing Beautiful Day or Vertigo today? Nooooooooo... of course not. Most people can't even remember those songs existed!

You do, however, hear a whole lotta Miami. This is undisputable.

Fucking revisionists.

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Old 02-17-2014, 10:09 AM   #30
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Yeah really; WTF POP had hits? LOL.
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