With or Without You lyrics

[Quick Vick]

I have heard a few interpretations from people about what they think this song is about. One was that the song was about a girl, which would be typical of most songs. But I think U2 is much deeper than that. I think the song was about Jesus and how they couldn't live with him right now because he is in heaven. Also how they couldn't live without him in this world because they need him. Read the lyrics and tell me what you think.

 

[partygirl]

Although several U2 songs refer to Christ in one way or another, I don't think this is one of them. I always believed it was a tormented love song. Any other ideas?

 

[Quick Vick]

The first words in the song are "See the stone set in your eyes, see the thorn twist in your side." I think that Bono is talking as if he is seeing Christ die and get stabbed in the side. I don't see how you could talk to a female like that and it be a love song.

 

[Achtung Bubba]

Not every U2 song is political, and not every U2 song centers on God or religion.

That said, WOWY *could* be about Christ, but frankly, it wouldn't resonate as deeply as it does as a love song. To use something other than a U2 song, this is the first verse to Johnny Cash's "Flesh and Blood":

Beside a singin' mountain stream
Where the willow grew
Where the silver leaf of maple
Sparkled in the mornin' dew
I braided twigs of willows
Made a string of buckeye beads;
But flesh and blood needs flesh and blood
And you're the one I need
Flesh and blood needs flesh and blood
And you're the one I need.

That song *could* also be a reference to Christ, God made flesh, but -- honestly -- it's a lot more powerful as a song of a man who so desparately needs his woman, his love.

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- Achtung Bubba

 

[Quick Vick]

That Cash song never says anything about God making flesh. It says the writer of the song made a string of buckeye beads and braiding twigs of willows. That is nowhere near comparable to WOWOY's lyrics about Christ's death.

 

[Achtung Bubba]

You may have misunderstood: when I said "God made flesh", I meant God as a human, God becoming one of us, namely Christ.

Thus, I wasn't referencing the "string of beads" line in "Flesh and Blood". I was referring to the line about how "flesh and blood needs flesh and blood" as possibly meaning man not only needing God, but needing God in the form of a man.

It's as much a logical conclusion as the "thorn in the side" line in WOWY. My only point is that both songs are less powerful if they refer to God or Christ.

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- Achtung Bubba

[This message has been edited by Achtung Bubba (edited 08-30-2000).]

 

[xovonob]

U2 doesn't right straight spiritual, political or love songs. If Bono is going to write a song about mad love for a girl, he's going to make her an angel, and her spirit is going to be as lofty as the Holy Spirit. If Bono feels he's hurting big time, he's going to compare it to Jesus on a Cross. He'll throw political thoughts in the mix too. It's got a lot to do with metaphors. It's poetry, people.

 

[partygirl]

Yes, I agree. I think there has been some songs that have been done straight. But most songs are metaphors. They have layers of meaning, they are very textural if that makes sense. They are like an impression painting. I don't believe they are ever to be taken too literally. Bono has always been a bit of a performance artist-his lyrics are that way too.

 

[Quick Vick]

You guys have no clue what is going through Bono's mind. Why would Bono write a song like that for Ali?

 

[popsadie]

Ok...I know that most of you believe that with or without you is a straight love song...but to me, there are just too many biblical allusions contained in it to make it Only a romantic song."on a bed of nails she makes me wait".."thorn twist in your side" "through the storm we reach the shore" Also, this track is right next to "I still haven't found.." Personally, I think it is yet another example of Bono purposefully writing on multi-levels. The biblical allusions give his feeling of betrayal and pain more intensity if you want to see it as a straight love song, and if you want to see the "you" as God/Jesus then the almost erotic feel of the song in my mind intensifies the relationship aspect of faith. To me, it works both ways...and although i agree that not every u2 song has to be about God or politics...i believe that this song can be taken both ways...and I disagree with the earlier remark about how "spiritualizing" this song cuts its intensity.....on a bed of nails "she" makes me wait?..i can't Live with or without you...trust me, I've felt this way with my faith..and it hurts just as much if not more than any struggle in a human relationship...anyways

in the name of hope,faith and love
Megan

 

[Alisaura]

This may be a bit of a generalisation, but the more I read books about U2 (particularly Into the Heart), the more I'm sure it's an essentially sound assumption...
No U2 song means just one thing.
Someone probably already said that in different words... Most of them have many different interpretations, this one as much as any other. Apparently most of the first 3 albums' songs' meanings only became known to everyone (including Bono and the band) some years later. But that's straying off topic...

 

[partygirl]

Quickvik-I don't think every love song Bono writes is always about Ali. It could be about another relationship he's witnessed, a book, a movie whatever. Or perhaps it is about Ali and he wrote it on a really bad day. You know? I suspect as others have said that With or Without You has different layers of meaning.

 

[AchtungSteve]

Achtung Bubba, again you bring laughter! Great quote from a great show!

Anybody who has had any relationship that has gone past the original lust phase can relate to this song. "Is that called Limerance? Archaelogy was almost 10 years ago for me

" I am engaged to a woman that I have been with now for five years, we marry next spring. God knows I have played that song after a bitter fight because Bono sings as if he has been there and he knows what I am feeling. "She left me with nothing to win and nothing left to lose..." So Cruel is another song like this, perhaps more blatant.

I also agree that Bono may not always write about Ali and his own relationship with her. Achtung Baby was heavily influenced by the Edge's personal life, in particular his divorce...

And as much as we men try to keep God and Christ at the center of our lives, sometimes the woman in our lives become TOO central, and the relationship becomes near obsessive. I don't think women want to be religiously worshipped (but as a man I can only guess). I think they just want to be loved, supported, and understood. They like a little freedom to balance the intensity of a full blown relationship. I know I am guilty of this from time to time, and it actually hurts my relationship. You begin to lose yourself ("And you give yourself away..."from So Cruel-"I dissappeared in you...") Obviously, you can't ignore your woman too much. But when I think of my relationship with my future wife I think of her cat. If I go pick the cat up to pet her, she will try to wiggle away - annoyed. But If I just relax on the couch and let the cat come to me, she will lay on my stomach for hours, loving EVERY ounce of attention!!!

That may be getting a bit off topic...sorry about that

 

[Achtung Bubba]

Okay, I've read all your posts, and re-listened to WOWY to see any spiritual aspects to it.

I do see a deep sense of spirituality, soul, that has made even pop songs like "Sweetest Thing" a lot deeper than most pop songs. But I've always seen this spirituality in some of U2's most romantic songs -- "Promenade", "With or Without You", and "So Cruel".

Still, when I tried to see this as a song that either addresses God (or an aspect of God, i.e., Christ or the Holy Spirit), I find that I'm stretching too far to see it.

Maybe it's just my experiences in life, but I can't see God tortuing the man in this song nearly as intensely as a lover could.

"Women. Can't live with 'em, pass the beer nuts." --Norm Peterson, Cheers

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- Achtung Bubba

 

[Achtung_Bebe]

lol nice analogy Steve

The trick is to not appear TOO eager for attention/affection... that way it will just come to you -- hey, are you guys taking notes yet??

Bono writes about relationships in a way that it can be applied to any couple.. His ideas are probably spurred from his own personal experiences with Ali, or other couples around him such as Edge.. but what he writes about can certainly be seen in nearly every relationship. So, he may be inspired by his own experiences, but it definately isn't limited to that. In other words, he writes about personal subjects that can be applied in a general sense. Well, those are my thoughts on the matter

 

[Achtung_Bebe]

I have one more thing to add, which I hope you all will find to be valid insight into the lyrics of With Or Without You...

"on a bed of nails she makes me wait".."thorn twist in your side" ..."through the storm we reach the shore"

I have always felt that by bringing up the crucifixion, Bono is in a way relating with Christ.. think about it.. The story of Christ's crucifixion is the greatest example of suffering love -- Here you have Christ, who put out nothing but love, being tortured, and unjustly so.. I feel this is Bono comparing this great injustice to his own experiences where suffering was the result of love. Does anybody else see where I'm going with this? I think the mention of Christ serves as more of a comparison to the love between two people, which can eventually generate pain.

 

[AchtungSteve]

You are awesome Achtung_Bebe

I agree with you here 110 %. The important part to remember, is that we Christians will always reach the shore...eventually.

I wish you and Achtung Bubba lived around the corner to discuss this song over a cup of coffee. It can be an entire night's discussion. Oh' well...

 

[Achtung_Bebe]

Thanks for the kind words Steve

That would be awesome to have coffee over a U2 interpretation -- At the rate technology is moving today, I'm sure this will become possible in 5 years tops

Until then we must simply dream out loud

 

[zooropamanda]

Bono is a song writer, just like any other writer, his words are not always true to his life.
He creates characters, storylines and plots.

God, if those love songs were all about Ali, she'd be one messed up chick!!!


"When one of Bono's ideas leaves the realm of reality, it is Larry who calls time out." - Bill Flanagan

 

[Achtung Bubba]

...or Bono would be one messed up dude.

Thanks for the replies, Bebe and Steve. Good analogies, but I hate that they're accurate. I mean, the more I need a girl, the less I have her; the more I need to talk to a girl, the less she wants to talk -- where's the logic in that?

And, by extending the idea, I find that a guy who has a girlfriend suddenly becomes desirable to every OTHER girl. To get a girlfriend, you need to already have a girlfriend. ARRRGH!

Honestly, that may be one of the reasons I'm looking for God at this point in my life. When I run to God, God doesn't run away.

And I'm reminded of another love song, as grand as "With or Without You", Brak's "I Love You Baby":

(Don't know who Brak is? See below.)

We could get married, just the two of us,
And you could get a job driving a school bus.
I love you, baby, will you marry me?
(Spoken)You don't have to decide right away.
Think it over.
Who's it gonna hurt?
Where are you going?

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- Achtung Bubba

[This message has been edited by Achtung Bubba (edited 09-03-2000).]

 

[theorris]

That was hilarious Bubba. Thanks for the tip when ever I need advice on love and relationships I will turn to Brak and Space Ghost from now on!

 

[AchtungSteve]

I wish it was innaccurate Achtung Bubba. But you know, every morning I go on a long run, and that is my personal time with the Lord. I have been asking for God to "light my way" for about four years now. So many things have fallen into place for me since I "let go of the steering wheel."

I have learned not to make women more important God. I love my fiancee with all my heart, and there is nothing I wouldn't do for her. But I have realized over the years with her that we each need that dreaded "space." When you first fall in love everything is completely shared, almost EVERY moment. Most relationships do not seem to last beyond this phase. It is a special occurance when two people can remain together past this stage, and I believe successful partners trust each other to go into their own rooms every now and then, knowing they will come back to bring more warmth and wisdom to the relationship.

It is hard because I want to give her everything she wants, but that's not what she wants

I sense she is most attracted to me when I am occupied by other things, but sneak her some daily attention. The other night I was up late working and she was sitting on the couch watching TV. I looked over and she was staring at me smiling. I smiled back and went back to work. (we made love later

)

A small moment out of many, but to me that was what genuine love is about. It is warm, not hot. I believe "this" is designed this way by God so I don't forget that it is He that brought this person into my life.

You come across as a very likable guy Achtung Bubba, and I am sure that woman is just around the corner. Trust God to put her into your arms

Bad guys get the girls, but gentlemen get the WOMAN.

 

[Achtung Bubba]

Originally posted by AchtungSteve:
You come across as a very likable guy Achtung Bubba, and I am sure that woman is just around the corner. Trust God to put her into your arms

Bad guys get the girls, but gentlemen get the WOMAN.

Yeah, I'm sure she's around the corner, holding the rope that holds up a well-placed anvil.

(I need to really stop watching cartoons.

)

Actually, a lot of older people have told me the same thing. Of course, they all found SOMEBODY by the time they were my age... basically, I'm getting very close to just forgetting the whole "significant-other" thing, not out of frustration but more out of the feeling that it's not really in the Master Plan right now.

Yup, I will take an oath of celibacy, like my father before me.

------------------
- Achtung Bubba

 

[zooropamanda]

<zooropamanda wonders whether to tread on this very male locker roomish ground>

who would have thought that you'd find two men talking openly about their love lives on a U2 message board?

this board blissfully surprises me every day.

Although perhaps I lend more to Bubba's thoughts.

"And, by extending the idea, I find that a guy who has a girlfriend suddenly becomes desirable to every OTHER girl. To get a girlfriend, you need to already have a girlfriend. ARRRGH!"

Bubba, it goes for girls too.

Significant other? If you've given up at what? 21? Man...

Steve, my friend, you may be luckier than you realise. It sounds very special.ALthough, Ive picked up in just your few posts that you probably do realise how lucky you are.

and Bubba, yes perhaps its time you stopped comparing women to Wyle E Coyote

What was this thread about again?

 

[AchtungSteve]

Sure I am lucky, but as with any long term relationship we have had our difficulties. We have survived the "If THIS is really true love, then why are we fighting?" phase. There have been some break-ups, as well as great make-ups

Our story is not over, and I hope it is just beginning. She is a wonderful woman, an elementary school teacher

(I never had a cute teacher when I went to school, no fair)

I think this song is about those times in a relationship where you really don't want to be around this person, but something keeps you there...and the next day you realize how great of a thing you truly have. "Through the storm we reach the shore..."

 

[tomtom]

Firstly Bubba I always see this image of you as grossly fat,because whenever I read Bubba I think of Bobba Fett.

Secondly With or Without You is what U2 means to me.I have heard interviews of U2 before The Joshua Tree was released I will give you the URL of the site soon.About WOWOY Bono said:

"It is about the violence of love....
...Love is like a two-edged sword"

Edge said:
"It is U2.This song is U2..."

Thi song transcends all words.It just is sheer pure emotion.Even the metaphors which are used in the song cannot be translated into actual words.I dont know what Bono must have felt when he wrote this song.But I know that he doesnt write about what he doesnt feel...and I can feel it,we all can feel it.

See.The thing is that literal translation of words doesnt work in this song.That why Bono goes 'Oh oh oh oh'.Because words cannot express what he feels,the extent and magnitude of it.There is nothing to say,only to feel.And the song never dies,it just fades slowly in the end,leaving so much to be said.Written language is simply not good enough to express pure emotion.

We all feel this song.We are all this song.Do you agree with me?

 

[tomtom]

OK the link to The Joshua Tree interview is:
www.listen.to/u2soundlibrary

It is also mentioned that Bono struggled with marital difficulties during the making of The Joshua Tree.

 

[AchtungSteve]

tomtom Bobba Fett was a robot, no fat. Maybe you are thinking of Jabba the Hutt.

 

[tomtom]

Yes you are probably right,AchtungSteve seeing as I dont know anything about Star Wars,it must be Jabba,but whenever I read the words Booba Fett,I think of Bobba Fatt,and then....well,you get the idea

 

[Larry's drumstick]

I agree with you tomtom about the "oh, oh, oh, oh" bit at the end of WOWY. The way Bono sings and feels it definitely expresses more than any words ever could. (Not to mention that the "feeling" can be understood in any language). That's why it is so powerful.