"Walk On" lyrics - Bono to Adam re: Faith? - Page 2 - U2 Feedback

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Old 06-26-2002, 01:16 PM   #16
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Ravenstar -

I think what Slane meant was he hopes Adam has come to find his faith in God, for his sake.

I would agree!
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Old 06-26-2002, 09:13 PM   #17
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I still dont quite understand. I gues for me, having faith in something that I dont believe exists isnt a good thing.
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Old 06-27-2002, 11:22 AM   #18
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I don't think anyone would disagree with you.

Why would you have faith in something you don't believe in?

Slane's point, and my point, is that if Adam has come to a belief and faith in Christ - which is obviously something that the other 3 band members share - that would be a really good thing for him.

The reason I think that would be a good thing is because I have that faith and belief and it's changed and impacted my life in a great way - as it has for so many others.

Just out of curiousity, why the pentagram w/ the devil head? Shock value?
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Old 06-27-2002, 05:18 PM   #19
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I think what RavenStar was trying to say was that having faith is not the be all, end all for some people. Faith in Christ is not a requirement for any of us ...

I am sure you'll agree with this, but many people lead good lives without any sort of spiritual/religious basis for that lifestyle.

I think that maybe, back when Larry, Edge and Bono were in Shalom, they might have tried to "convert" Adam or direct certain lyrics toward him, but I think that by now they just accept Adam for who he is ...

If he's spiritual, great, if he's not, that's ok too. I don't think Larry, Edge or Bono would force their beliefs on anyone ... I think that's one of the things that turn them off about organized religion.
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Old 06-27-2002, 06:16 PM   #20
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Well, this is a huge philosophical topic, but if Bono, Edge and Larry's faith is real, then it IS , by definition, the be all end all for everyone.

That's the nature of the God of the Bible. If he's real - and I believe he is - then there's no room for subjective truth (which is an oxymoron in itself). No room for "that works for you but not for me".

I totally agree with you that nobody should ever force their belief system on anyone - but I also believe that there is absolute truth (Christ) and if I didn't share that with people who don't know it or understand it, I wouldn't be following Christ's Great Commission.

Please understand that I respect someone's right to reject what I share with them and would not judge them for not responding to Christ. But I do still consider that person to be someone who needs to know.

I think that is probably where the Christian members of U2 are with respect to Adam. It's not that they don't want him to know Christ, just that they realize it's his decision alone.

Obviously, I am assuming a lot with respect to their relationships, but you get the idea.
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Old 06-28-2002, 05:51 AM   #21
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I believe that noone should ever try and force someonesbelieves onto another person. each and everyone of us has his/her own free will and we have to decide, whether we what to be spiritual or not.

I think that Bono tried to influence Adam in the early days by addressing lyrics to him, but I think that he´s stoppedthat now.
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Old 06-28-2002, 01:27 PM   #22
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AM -

I agree that no one should "force" their beliefs on anyone.

However, the Christian faith is built on the premise that Jesus Christ is the ONE and ONLY saviour.

Jesus never forces himself on us - and his allowance of our freewill is the embodiment of his love - but he makes no bones about the fact that if we don't choose him in this life, we will not force us, or allow us, to be with him in eternity.
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Old 06-28-2002, 03:39 PM   #23
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I am going to preface this by saying that I am Catholic and I believe in God.

Quote:
Originally posted by One Tree Still
Well, this is a huge philosophical topic, but if Bono, Edge and Larry's faith is real, then it IS , by definition, the be all end all for everyone.
Why is the faith of three individuals so important to everyone? I believe, because I choose to. I don't believe my faith alone will "save" me--it is not the be all end all in my life. It's important, but I belive that being a good person is far more important. I don't think faith in God is a prerequisite for heaven--a good life, yes, but not faith.

Quote:
Originally posted by One Tree Still
[B
That's the nature of the God of the Bible. If he's real - and I believe he is - then there's no room for subjective truth (which is an oxymoron in itself). No room for "that works for you but not for me".
[/B]
Why isn't there room for subjective truth? I certainly thing there are truths (ie love, freedom, etc) but I think the way we interpret them and use them in our lives is certainly subjective. For example, some people are very open to love in their lives and some people, for whatever reason, just can let themselves love or be loved.

It is similar with the idea of God ... Some people can let God into their lives and some people just are not open to that idea.

I think faith is an incredibly personal decision--yes, I was raised Catholic (and children all over the world are raised with different faith systems), but ultimately it is their decision whether they accept or reject that faith.

Quote:
Originally posted by One Tree Still
[B
Please understand that I respect someone's right to reject what I share with them and would not judge them for not responding to Christ. But I do still consider that person to be someone who needs to know.
[/B]
I think most people, even atheists and agnostics, "know" about God ... In my experience, at least in the Western World, a lot of our culture is based around the idea of a single God (Christianity, Judiasm, Islam etc ... we may call him different things, but it is the same God). The Atheists I have known did grow up within some sort of a religious tradition and did "know" about God and what role he was supposed to play (this may not apply to all atheists, through).
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Old 06-28-2002, 03:59 PM   #24
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If you have faith in Christ and you seek to emulate Christ, you will be a "good" person.

Yes, you can be a good person and not know Christ, but your life is, based on the Christ of the Bible, incomplete without that relationship. I'm not the one making that determination, Christ is.

Truth, by it's very definition is objective - not subjective. There is no such thing as subjective truth. What you are describing is a person's reaction to truth - which is always subjective. But a person's reaction does not change the objectivity of a truth.

Christianity, Judiasm, Islam etc. do not worship the same God. I suggest you do some reading on that if you think they do.
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Old 06-28-2002, 04:18 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by One Tree Still
Christianity, Judiasm, Islam etc. do not worship the same God. I suggest you do some reading on that if you think they do.
I in fact have done reading on this … please don’t assume I haven’t.

Christianity is a direct descendant of Judiasm … Jesus, as the Son of God and a Jew, wanted people to believe in the same God that Jews worshipped, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. The difference between the two is that Christians accept Jesus as the Son of God and Jews do not.

Another major difference between the two religions is that Judaism accepts the Torah in its entirety, while Christianity does not. Despite the fact that Jesus was a Jew and advised adherence to the Torah's laws ("Think not that I have come to abolish the Law and the Prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfill them…Whoever then breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so shall be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven"-Matthew 5:17 19). It was the belief of Paul that the laws of the Torah were too difficult for the average Christian to observe.

In the Islamic tradition, Mohammed, strongly influenced by Jews and Christians, adopted their belief in Monotheism, as well as certain other Jewish practices, such as praying several times a day, avoiding pork, giving alms to the poor, and observing a fasting period.

Mohamed considered himself the prophet of God. The holy book of Islam is the Koran, which contains many of the same writings as the Torah and the Christian Bible.
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Old 06-28-2002, 04:37 PM   #26
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Yes, you have the historical aspects down pat, but the fact is, in Christianity the Father and the Son are One. Jesus didn't want people to worship the God of the Old Testament, he wanted people to follow HIM, God incarnate.

That differs widely and dramatically from the belief of Judaism and Islam.

In fact, that is what separates Christianity from most, if not all other religions.

I shouldn't have assumed you hadn't done your reading on this, but it's clear you didn't draw the correct conclusions from your readings.

While the three faiths in question share some historical roots, the claims of Christ are what differentiate the Christian faith from the others - that Christ claimed to be God.
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Old 06-28-2002, 04:44 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by One Tree Still
Yes, you have the historical aspects down pat, but the fact is, in Christianity the Father and the Son are One. Jesus didn't want people to worship the God of the Old Testament, he wanted people to follow HIM, God incarnate.
Exactly ... Jesus = God (the same god of the Jews) = Holy Spirit

They're all the same person ... The Christians therefore believe that God (the same God of the Jews) is incarnated in the human form of Jesus.

If we didn't believe in the same God as the Jews then why do we have the Old Testament? We would only have the New Testament (much like Islam has the Koran).
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Old 06-28-2002, 05:14 PM   #28
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We (Christians) believe in the God of the Old Testament, but we believe he is also the God of the New Covenant, which Jews do not believe.

The God of the New Covenant, represented by Jesus, does not require us to follow the old Law, but rather requires that we follow Jesus, who rendered the old Law irrelevant on the Cross.

So, in essence, Christians worship a different God than the Jews because they don't believe Jesus is the Messiah, while Christians do.

There's a major difference in the belief there.
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Old 06-28-2002, 05:19 PM   #29
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But if the God of the Old Testament is manifest in Jesus, how can they be different?

Yes, We believe Jesus represents a New Covenant, but it's still the same God.

I guess we will never agree on this ...
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Old 06-28-2002, 05:40 PM   #30
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Same God, different directive. Follow Jesus now instead of the old Law.

The orthodox Jews still follow the old Law.
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