revolution? what revolution?

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souLnation2002

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k, being the young canadain that i am, i have no idea what happened in Ireland that was so bad. the history that i learn in school invovles.... ermm... ya, you guessed it, Canadian History.

so what i'm wondering i when bono goes "fuck the revolution" wat revolution and what resistance??????? i'm refering to his speech during sunday bloody sunday. and while your at it, explaining this, you might as well explain the song sunday bloody sunday to me. i know its a song about war, but i'm pretty sure theres more too it than that. thanks!

:bono:
 
souLnation2002 said:


so what i'm wondering i when bono goes "fuck the revolution" wat revolution and what resistance??????? i'm refering to his speech during sunday bloody sunday. and while your at it, explaining this, you might as well explain the song sunday bloody sunday to me. i know its a song about war, but i'm pretty sure theres more too it than that. thanks!

:bono:

Uh the revolution between the irish and british in Ireland thats been going on for years and years and years


:shocked:

Well anyway i will start with Sunday Blody Sunday what its about- its about BLOODY SUNDAY that happened in Derry in the 70's-1972 to be precise ;) 13 civilians were shot dead and 13 were injured by the British soldiers during a civil rights march . I think its also bout other troubles here in Norn Ireland. i never think we will have peace here we are still fighting today!!!! :no:

this stuff thats happening here is really annoying me becus ppl are being forced outta their homes where i live :no:


anyway yeh loads of other sutff happened in Ireland but what do u wanna know lol theres lots to know im really into the easter rising 1916- i loved reading about that fascinating!!!!


So tell me what irish history u wanna know- i might be able to help
 
Re: Re: revolution? what revolution?

Lara Mullen said:


Uh the revolution between the irish and british in Ireland thats been going on for years and years and years



errm, how bout going into that?
 
Re: Re: revolution? what revolution?

Lara Mullen said:
Uh the revolution between the irish and british in Ireland thats been going on for years and years and years
we never learned about it in school, either. (i'm american, btw) when i did a speech on the IRA last year at uni everyone was like:
:scratch: :confused: :huh: :shrug: :shocked: :eek:
 
basically, it all started a long time ago. northern ireland used to be a part of ireland, but england ended up taking it. (i think? i thought i still had my report on my comp but i don't...) so now it's pretty much divided between those who want northern ireland to be part of ireland, and those who want it to stay as part of the UK.
 
The government question is complicated by the religious element; i.e. that N. Ireland is largely Protestant and Ireland is largely Roman Catholic. That's an issue close to Bono's heart because he comes from a family that's mixed as far as religion goes.
 
I'd heard the story of how...

"Sunday Bloody Sunday" came about, and I know that northern Ireland's had some serious problems for a long time now, but the details here are really helping-I'm learning a few new things myself.

I loved Bono's speech during "Sunday Bloody Sunday" on the "Rattle and Hum" movie, I was watching it and was like, "YES, go, Bono!"

Angela
 
souLnation2002 said:
so what i'm wondering i when bono goes "fuck the revolution" wat revolution and what resistance??????? i'm refering to his speech during sunday bloody sunday. and while your at it, explaining this, you might as well explain the song sunday bloody sunday to me.
Okay, so......""what follows are thoughts of my personal (maybe wrong) mind - no garantuee for mistakes""..........*erhm*..........so......

What Lara already said about Bloody Sunday......and now what I wanted to add: There was a second BS - or rather a first, it was in 1918(?) or something in Dublin. People wanted to protest against the British governemnt in their country and many were shot radically. During the following years the IRA was formed under the leadership of DeValera, who was to become Irland's first president. There were some meetings with the Biritsh government in London and the IRA even wanted to get American support, but all this failed. The British suggested to - at first - give Irland own rights but it was still supposed to be in the Commonwealth, but the Irish wanted everything or nothing and this was about the actual time of the beginning of the IRA.

The revolution was always the fight between belonging to Bitain or being a country on its own, IMO.

Bono said "Fuck the revolution!" because for him it is never good to use any kind of force for getting one's will.

And the resistance is the stubbornness between the Irish Republican Army (fighting for one big Ireland) and the Northern Irish (wanting to stay with Britain). There could be avoided so much pain if there wouldn't be this stubbornness.

And some quotes about revolution:

"Revolution starts at home, in your heart, in your refusal to compromise your beliefs and your values. I'm not interested in politics like people fighting back with sticks and stones, but in the politics of love. I think there is nothing more radical than two people's loving each other, because it's so infrequent."

"I would love to see a united Ireland, but I never could support a man who put a gun to somebody's head to see that dream come true." July 1987

So, that's it - Bono's 100% right.
 
souLnation2002 said:
Thanks guys, that clears it up!! :yes:
You know, this is one of my favourite topics to talk about in school or at home - my favourite non-U2 related topic. Everybody here gets to hear what I said above and loads more. :D
 
paxetaurora said:
Thank you, FallingStar...this will be very useful for U2 fans. :)
:eek: Wait, wait! I could have written much more about the Irish revoltion than only this! :huh: Oh....my only chance and I don't take it serious... :scream:

But I hope it really helps someone. :)
 
This is from encarta.com- it might explain things a bit more. It's a shame that us Americans never learn this stuff in school- when I started getting into U2 I read about Irish history online so I'd know what all the political stuff was about.

Irish liberation from British rule was achieved as the result of a struggle extending over several centuries and marked by numerous rebellions. That ?England's difficulty is Ireland's opportunity? was the oldest principle of Ireland's long resistance to the British.

Growing tension and resentment in Ireland over British rule and the question of Irish independence set in motion a chain of events that came to be known as the Irish Revolution. Conflicts between nationalists, who wanted a completely independent Irish republic, and unionists, who wished to remain under British control, led to the establishment of armed paramilitary groups in both areas of the island. The threat of civil war between the factions over the question of Irish independence was imminent. This crisis was temporarily averted, however, by the outbreak of World War I (1914-1918), and representatives of both groups supported the British war effort against Germany. However, one splinter group of the nationalist faction refused to join the war effort. Instead, they initiated the Easter Rebellion of 1916, capturing the city of Dublin and declaring the independence of Ireland. The rebellion was unsuccessful, primarily due to limited support from the Irish people. However, Britain's severe reaction, including the execution of 15 Irish nationalist leaders, outraged the Irish population and set the stage for the nationalist group Sinn Fein to become the dominant political party in Ireland. Sinn Fein had been organized several years before the uprising by Arthur Griffith, a Dublin journalist. Sinn Fein now called for Ireland, including the northern areas, to become a republic independent of the United Kingdom. In the 1918 election, Sinn Fein candidates won 73 of the 106 seats allotted to Ireland in the British Parliament.

In January 1919 the Sinn Fein members of Parliament met in Dublin as the D?il ?ireann, or national assembly. They proclaimed Ireland's independence and formed a government with Eamon de Valera as president. There followed guerrilla attacks by Irish insurgents, later called the Irish Republican Army (IRA), on British forces, particularly the Black and Tans, an auxiliary British police force. These attacks and British reprisals became an ugly war in which hundreds of people were killed.

In December 1920 the British Parliament enacted the Government of Ireland Bill, providing one parliament for the 6 counties of the Protestant north (Northern Ireland) and another for the remaining 26 counties. The people of Northern Ireland accepted this limited home rule and elected a separate parliament in May 1921. Efforts to implement the new government in the other 26 counties served only to solidify Sinn Fein's position. The guerrilla war ended with a truce on July 11. Negotiations between representatives of the D?il and the British government of Prime Minister David Lloyd George produced a treaty signed on December 6, 1921, whereby the 26 counties would become the Irish Free State within the Commonwealth of Nations, with a status equal to that of Canada and a modified oath of allegiance to the British monarch. The D?il ratified the treaty on January 15, 1922, by a vote of 64 to 57, thus ending the Irish Revolution. Sinn Fein split over the issue of ratification into pro- and anti-Treaty factions. Those in opposition to the treaty were led by de Valera, who resigned as president of the D?il and was replaced by Griffith. Michael Collins, a pro-Treaty Sinn Fein leader, became chairman of the provisional government.

Under the leadership of de Valera, anti-Treaty Sinn Fein called for a resumption of the struggle against Britain and initiated the Irish Civil War against the provisional government.With the question of the treaty the chief issue, an election for a provisional D?il was held in June 1922. Candidates supporting the treaty won a majority of the seats. Anti-Treaty Sinn Fein, refusing to recognize the authority of the new D?il, proclaimed a rival government and intensified their attacks on the Irish Free State. In the ensuing struggle, hundreds were killed on both sides, including Michael Collins. Meanwhile, the D?il, headed now by William Thomas Cosgrave, drafted a constitution providing for a bicameral legislature (D?il and Seanad, or senate), which was adopted on October 11, 1922. Following approval by the British Parliament, it became operative on December 6. The official government of the Irish Free State was instituted at once, with Cosgrave assuming office as president of the executive council. In April 1923 the anti-Treaty group ended its guerrilla campaign in time to participate in the national elections, and public order was gradually restored. Neither party secured a majority in the August elections. Cosgrave retained power, however, and de Valera led his followers in a boycott of the D?il. Cosgrave put together a viable government, which reached an agreement with Britain on some mutual problems and strengthened the economy by a series of measures, including a hydroelectric project on the Shannon River.

The Irish Free State had joined the League of Nations in 1923, and the following year it set a precedent for members of the Commonwealth of Nations by sending its own ambassador to Washington, D.C. At the Imperial Conference of 1926, the Free State joined with other dominions to obtain the Balfour Report, which stated that the British government would not legislate for the dominions or nullify acts passed by their own legislatures. Once this was confirmed by the Statute of Westminster in 1931, Ireland had the power to legislate away its relationship with Britain.

De Valera and anti-Treaty Sinn Fein ended their boycott following the elections in August 1927 and entered the D?il as the Fianna F?il Party. In part as a result of the government's failure to cope with domestic difficulties brought on by the world economic crisis of the early 1930s, Cosgrave's party lost several seats to Fianna F?il in the elections of February 1932. De Valera thereupon became head of the government, beginning a stay in office that would last 16 years. Legislation that he sponsored in April included provisions for revoking the oath of allegiance to the British crown. This bill, which also would have virtually ended the political ties between Britain and the Free State, was approved by the D?il, but was rejected by the Seanad. Next, de Valera withheld payment of certain land purchase annuities that the British claimed were legally due them. This led to a protracted tariff war between the two countries, which seriously damaged the economy of the Free State. In another significant move, de Valera secured the repeal of a law restricting the activities of the IRA. The electorate registered approval of his program in the January 1933 elections, in which a majority of Fianna F?il members were returned to the D?il.

With this mandate from the people, de Valera systematically developed his program for the gradual elimination of British influence in Irish affairs, obtaining abrogation of the oath of allegiance, restrictions on the role of the governor-general who represented the British crown, and other measures. Simultaneously, the government initiated measures designed to give the country a self-sufficient economy. Steps taken included high income taxes on the rich, high protective tariffs, and control of foreign capital invested in Irish industry. In June 1935 de Valera severed his political ties with the IRA, which had been extremely critical of many of his policies, and imprisoned some of its leaders. Meanwhile, a draft of a new constitution was in progress. In 1936 de Valera, in coalition with other groups in the D?il, finally secured passage of legislation abolishing the Seanad, long inimical to his policies. The D?il functioned as a single-house legislature for the remainder of its term. In connection with the events surrounding the abdication of King Edward VIII of Britain, the D?il enacted in 1936 a bill that deleted all references to the king from the constitution of the Free State and abolished the office of governor-general. The External Relations Act of 1936, passed at the same time, restricted the association of the Free State with the Commonwealth of Nations to joint action on certain questions involving external policy, specifically the approval of its trade treaties of the Free State and the appointment of its foreign envoys.

The five-year term of office of the D?il expired in June 1937. In the subsequent election de Valera and Fianna F?il were returned to power and, in a simultaneous plebiscite, the voters approved the new constitution. This document abolished the Irish Free State and established Eire as a ?sovereign independent democratic state.? The constitution provided for an elected president as head of state; a prime minister as head of government; and a two-house legislature, with a new 60-member senate. Although it presumed to apply to all Ireland, its application in Northern Ireland was not to take effect prior to unification. It made no reference to the British monarch or to the Commonwealth of Nations, but de Valera indicated that Eire's relations with Britain would be governed by the External Relations Act of 1936. In 1938 the Irish writer and patriot Douglas Hyde became the first president of Eire, and de Valera became prime minister.

In 1938 a treaty ended the tariff war between Eire and Britain. It provided for the withdrawal of British forces from naval bases in Eire in exchange for a lump-sum payment to settle the annuities owed to Britain. The slight improvement in relations between the two nations was marred by a violent terrorist campaign in Britain conducted by the IRA.

Although Eire remained neutral in World War II (1939-1945), thereby demonstrating its independence, many of its citizens joined the Allied forces or worked in British war industries. In the immediate post-war period, the economic dislocations in Britain and Europe subjected the economy of Eire to severe strains, resulting in a period of rapid inflation and, indirectly, in the defeat of Fianna F?il and de Valera in the elections of February 1948. John Aloysius Costello became prime minister, leading a coalition of six parties, the chief of which was Fine Gael. He called for lower prices and taxes, the expansion of industrial production, and closer commercial relations with Britain. In November 1948 Costello led the D?il in passing the Republic of Ireland Bill.

On Easter Monday, April 18, 1949, the anniversary of the Easter Rebellion, Eire became the Republic of Ireland, formally free of allegiance to the British crown and no longer a member of the Commonwealth of Nations. In the following month, the British Parliament confirmed the status of Northern Ireland as part of the United Kingdom until its own parliament chose otherwise. It allowed Ireland to retain the economic benefits of Commonwealth membership, and it extended to Irish citizens resident in the United Kingdom the same rights as British citizens. Ireland granted British citizens residing in the republic similar benefits, not including political rights. The republic became a member of the United Nations on December 14, 1955. It declined to join the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO), however, since this would have entailed entering into an alliance with the United Kingdom, which retained possession of Northern Ireland.

With economic recovery came a new measure of political stability and a decline in traditional anti-British feeling. As early as 1957 Prime Minister Costello, who regarded terrorist activities as damaging to relations with Britain and tending to prolong the partition of Ireland, had called for forceful action against the IRA. De Valera, who succeeded Costello following the 1957 elections, publicly agreed that unity could not be achieved by force. This plus a decline in active membership led the IRA in February 1962 to announce that it had abandoned violence. Still, Ireland continued to suffer occasional acts of terrorism.

In June 1959 de Valera, at the age of 77, was elected president, a position he would hold for 14 years, and Sean Lemass became prime minister. Lemass and John Mary Lynch, who succeeded him in 1966, both attempted to build up industry in order to reduce unemployment and increase exports. Ireland was being led away from its ideal of conservative self-sufficiency and into closer ties with Britain and Europe. In 1965 Britain abolished virtually all tariffs on Irish goods, and Ireland undertook to do the same for British goods over a period of 15 years.

An increase of violence between Protestants and Catholics in Northern Ireland was followed by IRA terrorist activity both within and outside of the Irish Republic. In 1971 the D?il banned the purchase or holding of arms for use outside Ireland. In 1972 the government required the surrender of all firearms.

Also in early 1972 Ireland signed a treaty joining the European Community (now called the European Union), effective January 1, 1973?a move favored by 83 percent of the voters; and, by referendum, ended the special constitutional status of the Roman Catholic Church.

A coalition of Fine Gael and the Labour Party gained a slim majority in the 1973 elections and Fine Gael leader Liam Cosgrave became prime minister. In 1977 Fianna F?il returned to power in a government headed by Lynch; in 1979 he was replaced by Charles Haughey.

In the late 1970s and early 1980s the Irish government faced difficult problems: increased terrorism in the North by extremist Irish nationalists and a weak economy that produced massive government debt and rising unemployment. Elections were held in 1981, and a coalition government was led briefly by Garret FitzGerald, head of Fine Gael. Inconclusive elections in February 1982 returned Haughey to power, but another election, in late 1982, brought FitzGerald back. In 1985 FitzGerald signed a pact with Britain?the Anglo-Irish Agreement?which gave the Irish Republic a consultive role in governing Northern Ireland. FitzGerald remained prime minister until 1987, when he was replaced by Haughey with a single-vote majority in the D?il.

In November 1990, without the endorsement of the major parties, Mary Robinson was elected president. A champion of women's rights and civil liberties, Robinson was the first woman to hold so high an office in the Republic of Ireland.

In December 1991 Ireland signed the Treaty on European Union at Maastricht, The Netherlands, after securing a special provision that guaranteed that Ireland's abortion laws would not be affected by future European Union policies.The treaty was ratified by a national referendum in June 1992. Haughey resigned as prime minister and leader of Fianna F?il in early 1992, amid allegations that he had known about illegal phone tapping ordered by one of his ministers in a previous administration; Haughey's former finance minister, Albert Reynolds, was chosen to replace him. Reynolds remained prime minister after the elections of November 1992, but at the head of a coalition government made up of Fianna F?il and the Labour Party. In the elections, Irish voters also approved measures guaranteeing access to information about abortion and legalizing foreign travel to get an abortion, but rejected a constitutional amendment that would have broadened the availability of abortion within the republic. However, these measures were not supported by a July 1993 Irish Supreme Court decision, which upheld a ban on the distribution of overseas abortion information by a Dublin clinic.

In November 1994 the coalition government collapsed over disagreements regarding Reynolds's appointment of a controversial new attorney-general, a move that led the Labour Party to withdraw its support of Fianna F?il. A new coalition government was formed, headed by Prime Minister John Bruton of the Fine Gael Party. This new coalition was made up of members of Fine Gael, the Labour Party, and the Democratic Left.

In February 1997 a law legalizing divorce under certain circumstances went into effect in the Republic of Ireland. Divorce had been banned in Ireland since the country gained independence from Britain, and the new law was vigorously opposed by the Roman Catholic Church.

Shortly thereafter, John Bruton called a national election for June. He was faced with a growing scandal involving large cash donations to members of parliament and criticism regarding his policies on Northern Ireland. In the elections, Bruton's three-party coalition government came away with only 75 seats in the 166-seat lower house of parliament, compared to 81 for the opposition coalition of Fianna F?il and the Progressive Democrats. Though neither group was able to secure the 84 seats needed for an overall majority, Fianna F?il leader Bertie Ahern became the new prime minister.

In September 1997 President Mary Robinson resigned to become the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights. The popular Robinson was widely credited with raising the profile and influence of the largely ceremonial presidential office during her seven-year term. In elections held in October, Robinson was replaced by Mary McAleese, a law professor from Belfast, Northern Ireland.

Ireland's economy grew dramatically in the 1990s, although Irish per capita income in 1997 was still below the average for members of the European Union. One cause of the growth was government encouragement of foreign investment, which led many large corporations?especially those in the computer and electronics industries?to open facilities in Ireland. Ireland's economy was expected to continue growing well into the 21st century.

In August 1994 the IRA stated its intentions to suspend military operations in favor of peace negotiations in Northern Ireland. In February 1995 John Bruton and British prime minister John Major established a framework for negotiating the status of Northern Ireland. The document recognized Northern Ireland's right to self-determination and proposed the creation of a Northern Ireland Assembly. It also called for the establishment of a cross-border body composed of members of that assembly and representatives of the Irish Parliament. However, the two sides failed to agree on disarming the IRA, which resumed its terrorist activities in February 1996. After a week of bombing, Major and Bruton met again, setting May 30 as the date for the election of a new parliament, which would be made up of members of pro-British and pro-Irish political parties and would debate the situation in Northern Ireland. Sinn Fein, the political arm of the IRA, won 15 percent of the vote in these elections, but was excluded from the talks because of the IRA's refusal to restore the cease-fire. The parliament met as scheduled in June 1996, though conflict over the issue of whether or not Sinn Fein and the IRA should be included in the negotiations limited progress.

The peace process was revitalized after Tony Blair and the Labour Party won a landslide victory over John Major's Conservatives in May 1997 British parliamentary elections. After taking office, Blair declared the talks a top priority, and in June he announced that new talks would begin in September 1997. The IRA renewed its cease-fire in July, and after the British government dropped its demands that the IRA completely disarm before allowing Sinn Fein to participate in the talks, Sinn Fein joined the negotiations. Initial progress was limited, but the talks gradually proceeded with the help of Blair and Irish prime minister Bertie Ahern and under the oversight of former United States senator George Mitchell, who moved Blair's original deadline up to April 9, 1998. Although many feared the process would fall apart once again, Mitchell kept the talks on track. After an all-night negotiating session, and slightly past the deadline, the talks culminated in an historic agreement on April 10.

The agreement called for the creation of a provincial assembly for Northern Ireland to replace the direct rule of the province by the British government. This body would be overseen by an executive cabinet. It also created a North-South Ministerial Council to coordinate policies between the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland, and a Council of the Isles to allow representatives from both parts of Ireland to meet with representatives from the British, Scottish, and Welsh legislative bodies. Additionally, the agreement called for the Republic of Ireland to amend its constitution to drop its territorial claim to Northern Ireland.

On May 22 the Northern Ireland peace agreement was put to a vote in both the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland. In the Republic of Ireland the agreement was passed by an overwhelming 94 percent to 6 percent; in Northern Ireland the vote was passed by a margin of 71 percent to 29 percent.

Despite several false starts and many delays, the British Parliament formally transferred a wide range of powers to the Northern Ireland government in December 1999. The following day, the Irish government issued a statement relinquishing its territorial claim on Northern Ireland, and Irish and British officials signed an agreement setting up the North-South Ministerial Council. In the months ahead, however, the unresolved conflict over the pace of IRA disarmament triggered a series of crises that threatened to undermine the peace process. By September 2001 the British government had suspended the Northern Ireland Assembly three times. The IRA's historic decision to begin disarming in October averted the collapse of the power-sharing government.
 
Giant Lemon.........you sure did your homework :ohmy:

Khanada said it best ppl are opposed to Ireland being split in 2- Catholics in n.Ireland believe we should be part of Ireland again and protestants believe we should remain part of Britain and thats why the 2 religions here fight so much.

One of the most interesting & significant things that took place was the Rising (April 24th- Easter 1916) when a group of men opposed British Rule in Ireland so much they decided to fight against it even though they knew they would probbaly die anyway.

The thing that is so strange imo about the rebellions that took place is that it wasn't poor ppl fighting but it was masterminds behind these uprisings one of them DeValera became the 1st Irish president- Wolfe Tone was a lawyar and a teacher and Yeats although he at first opposed fighting by base men learnt that it was geniuses who fought and tried to defend their country- this is evident (i feel like im writing an english essay here lol) in his poem Easter 1916 which I really enjoyed studying this year at school.

I have met them at close of day
Coming with vivid faces
Them are the revolutionaries in this poem and he contrsts their "vivid" faces againt the mundanity of Ireland- maybe the mundanity is English built im not sure this is just the conclusion I came to when i studied the poem (im sitting with my yeats book in front of me and its the summer holidays lol!!!)
From counter or desk among grey
Eighteenth-century houses.
I have passed with a nod of the head
Or polite meaningless words,
Or have lingered awhile and said
Polite meaningless words,
And thought before I had done
Of a mocking tale or a gibe
To please a companion
Around the fire at the club,
Being certain that they and I
But lived where motley is worn:
All changed, changed utterly:
A terribly beauty is born.

That woman's days were spent
In ignorant good-will,
Her nights is argument
Until her voice grew shrill.
What voice more sweet than hers
When, young and beautiful,
She rode to harriers?
This man had kept a school
And rode our wing?d horse;
This other his helper and friend
Was coming into his force;
He might have won fame in the end,
So sensitive his nature seemed,
So daring and sweet his thought.
This other man I had dreamed
A drunken, vainglorious lout.
He had done most bitter wrong
To some who are near my heart,
Yet I number him in the song;
He, too, has resigned his part
In the casual comedy;
He, too, has been changed in his turn,
Transformed utterly:
A terrible beauty is born.

Hearts with one purpose alone
Through summer and winter seem
Enchanted to a stone
To trouble the living stream.
The horse that comes from the road,
The rider, the birds that range
From cloud to tumbling cloud,
Minute by minute they change;
A shadow of cloud on the stream
Changes minute by minute;
A horse-hoof slides on the brim,
And a horse plashes within it;
The long-legged moor-hens dive,
And hens to moor-cocks call;
Minute to minute they live;
The stone's in the midst of all.

Too long a sacrifice
Can make a stone of the heart.
O when may it suffice?
That is Heaven's part, our part
To murmur name upon name,
As a mother names her child
When sleep at last has come
On limbs that had run wild.
What is it but nightfall?
No, no, not night but death;
Was it needless death after all?
For England may keep faith
For all that is done and said.
We know their dream; enough
To know they dreamed and are dead;
And what if excess of love
Bewildered them till they died?
I write it out in a verse --
MacDonagh and MacBride
And Connolly and Pearse
Now and in time to be,
Wherever green is worn,
Are changed, changed utterly:
A terrible beauty is born.

This ironic terrible beauty line here i think he means that their sacrifice was beauty but the horror of the violene was terrible...meh..i only studied him for a month i could be talking rubbish its jsut a great poem!!!

Irish people had been opposing British rule for years and there were rebellions before this one as well (I dont know much about these so these details may be a wee bit sketchy here)

So heres a brieft history about Ireland here as best I can:

1796- Napolean (sp?) was defeated at Waterloo by an Irishman- Wellington- the Irish hoped that the French would help them get rid of the English in Ireland. In 1796 General Hoche, Napolean's rival, almost succeeded but his ships were damaged in a storm and many ppl died.

Wolfe tone, who went to France for about 2 years and gained lots of support for Irelands revolution, sat in Bantry Bay in a damaged ship, no back up French soldiers but he was still going to fight. Wolfe Tone really opposed British rule in ireland and he said:

"That the influence of England was the radical vice of our Government, and that Ireland would never be either free, prosperous, or happy, until she was independent, and that independence was unattainable whilst the connection with England existed."

He helped to create the organization known as the United Irishmen and he fought against the British even though he was a protestant! Tone founded the Society of United Irishmen in 1791. By 1794, the society combined an unprecedented national vision with a rejection of monarchy and an appeal for complete independence, factors that led to its being outlawed by the British Crown after betrayal by an informer. Because of his connection, Tone was exiled to America and by 1796 ended up in France. (Also 2 brothers The Sheares Brothers were in this rebellion too and they were killed on 14th July-Bastille Day in France - I just got back from Dublin and went to the crypts underneath a church where Wole Tones death mask is and the bodies of the brothers lie- im just meniotning this cus i love that place.)

"I have now seen the Parliament of Ireland, the Parliament of England, the Congress of the United States of America, the Corps Legislatif of France and the Convention Batave; I have likewise seen our shabby Volunteer Convention in 1783, and the General Committee of the Catholics in 1793; so that I have seen, in the way of deliberative bodies as many I believe as most men; and of all those I have mentioned, beyond all comparison the shamefully profligate and abandoned all sense of virtue, principle, or even common decency, was the legislature of my own unfortunate country. The scoundrels! I lose my temper every time I think of them!" - Theobald Wolfe Tone on the Irish Parliament

In Paris, Tone managed to get some support for his ideas, and managed to get some troops and supplies to assist the Irish in their efforts at freedom. But the organization in Ireland was full of British spies and efforts at revolution were squashed in 1796. Undaunted by this failure, Tone continued to try and gain support for the revolution in Ireland. But the combination of the British spy network and less than ample support from the French combined to thwart all his efforts. A further revolutionary attempt was made in 1798, with disastrous results for both Tone and the Irish participants.

The 1798 Uprising was a military catastrophe: the French and Irish forces were severely outgunned in the field and in one battle 2,000 revolutionaries faced 30,000 English regulars. The captured French were shipped home, but the Irish were all executed after their surrender. It is estimated that 30,000 Irishmen were killed in fighting that terrible summer: many of the victims were peasants who faced cannon with pitchforks, and a great number of these were women.

On Oct 11th after another attempt to get more French to Ireland Wolfe Tone was captured and put on trial

"From my earliest youth I have regarded the connection between Ireland and Great Britain as the curse of the Irish nation, and felt convinced, that while it lasted, this country would never be free or happy. In consequence, I determined to apply all the powers which my individual efforts could move, in order to separate the two countries. That Ireland was not able, of herself, to throw off the yoke, I knew. I therefore sought for aid wherever it was to be found? Under the flag of the French Republic I originally engaged with a view to save and liberate my own country. For that purpose I have encountered the chances of war amongst strangers: for that purpose I have repeatedly braved the terrors of the ocean, covered as I knew it to be with the triumphant fleets of that Power which it was my glory and my duty to oppose. I have sacrificed all my views in life; I have courted poverty; I have left a beloved wife unprotected, and children which I adored, fatherless. After such sacrifices, in a cause which I have always considered as the cause of justice and freedom - it is no great effort at this day to add the sacrifice of my life."

Thats the speech he made but he was sentanced to death but killed himself with a pen knife but he kinda made a mess of it and lived for days after in great pain.

Still 100's of years later Irishmen could not accept the rules of the English that were being forced upon them they hated the fact that their ideals and way of life were being changed- Wolfe Tone inspired many brave Irish men especially around the 1900's and the time of the famine in Ireland.
 
Ok right so more info on Ireland- I dunno if I am making any sense I never studied Irish history in school except the !916 Rising and that was when I was 13- I have not done History since that year when i dropped it and im now 17 lol- everything else I have searched about and learnt myself so I am trying my best lol!!!

The Irish were to be given partial sovereignty over their own affairs, and a Home Rule Bill was passed. But then the First World War began. Home Rule was postponed until victory over the Germans should have been achieved.


The Irish Republican Brotherhood or IRB. The IRB had been formed in 1858. It was a secret society which probably never numbered more than 2,000 including those Irishmen who belonged to it and who lived in England, America or elsewhere. Their aims were political rather than economic. They were patriots, dedicated to the ideal of national independence, and were prepared to use all means-including force to achieve this end. They provided, as it were, the general staff of the mass movement for Irish freedom from British rule, and their fortnightly publication, Irish Freedom (founded in 1910), advocated complete republican government for the whole of Ireland. It is significant that all the men who signed the proclamation of an Irish Republic on Easter Monday were members of the IRB.


What the proclomation was:

POBLACHT NA H EIREANN.

THE PROVISIONAL GOVERNMENT
OF THE
IRISH REPUBLIC
TO THE PEOPLE OF IRELAND

IRISHMEN AND IRISHWOMEN: In the name of God and of the dead generations from which she receives her old tradition of nationhood, Ireland, through us, summons her children to her flag and strikes for her freedom.

Having organised and trained her manhood through her secret revolutionary organisation, the Irish Republican Brotherhood, and through her open military organisations, the Irish Volunteers and the Irish Citizen Army, having patiently perfected her discipline, having resolutely waited for the right moment to reveal itself, she now seizes that moment, and, supported by her exiled children in America and by gallant allies in Europe, but relying in the first on her own strength, she strikes in full confidence of victory.

We declare the right of the people of Ireland to the ownership of Ireland, and to the unfettered control of Irish destinies, to be sovereign and indefeasible. The long usurpation of that right by a foreign people and government has not extinguished the right, nor can it ever be extinguished except by the destruction of the Irish people. In every generation the Irish people have asserted their right to national freedom and sovereignty; six times during the last three hundred years they have asserted it to arms. Standing on that fundamental right and again asserting it in arms in the face of the world, we hereby proclaim the Irish Republic as a Sovereign Independent State, and we pledge our lives and the lives of our comrades-in-arms to the cause of its freedom, of its welfare, and of its exaltation among the nations.

The Irish Republic is entitled to, and hereby claims, the allegiance of every Irishman and Irishwoman. The Republic guarantees religious and civil liberty, equal rights and equal opportunities to all its citizens, and declares its resolve to pursue the happiness and prosperity of the whole nation and all of its parts, cherishing all of the children of the nation equally and oblivious of the differences carefully fostered by an alien government, which have divided a minority from the majority in the past.

Until our arms have brought the opportune moment for the establishment of a permanent National, representative of the whole people of Ireland and elected by the suffrages of all her men and women, the Provisional Government, hereby constituted, will administer the civil and military affairs of the Republic in trust for the people.

We place the cause of the Irish Republic under the protection of the Most High God. Whose blessing we invoke upon our arms, and we pray that no one who serves that cause will dishonour it by cowardice, in humanity, or rapine. In this supreme hour the Irish nation must, by its valour and discipline and by the readiness of its children to sacrifice themselves for the common good, prove itself worthy of the august destiny to which it is called.

Signed on Behalf of the Provisional Government.

Thomas J. Clarke,
Sean Mac Diarmada, Thomas MacDonagh,
P. H. Pearse, Eamonn Ceannt,
James Connolly, Joseph Plunkett

When the First World War began, John Redmond, the leader of the Irish Nationalist Party and Parnell's heir, immediately proclaimed his acceptance of the postponement of Home Rule, both for himself and for his followers. These included the Irish Volunteers but the IRB had other ideas. At a meeting of theirs as early as August 1914, the decision was taken that there must be an Irish rebellion before the end of Britain's war with Germany. Until Easter Week 1916 the active members of the IRB were fully occupied in mounting this revolution.

The IRB were certain they could defeat Johns party they were fighting for the British in France. However, some of those who remained in Ireland and were armed and trained could be relied upon. Their Chief-of-Staff was the historian Eoin MacNeill, and their commandant a schoolmaster named Patrick Pearse.
The other para-military force was James Connolly's Irish Citizen Army. Connolly was a socialist who in 1896 had founded the Socialist Republican Party.

Supporting these was the women's organisation. Countess Markiewicz was one of the most prominent. She fought as an officer of the Citizen Army throughout the Easter Rising.

For the British to keep strong in Ireland they kept in close contact with the RIB (royal irish constabulary) They were almost all Irishmen, knew their districts thoroughly, and were in 1916, with a very few exceptions, entirely loyal to the Crown.

Cutting a long story short- IRB needed guns and a man Roger Casement agreed to send them over- the English knew a rising was planned when the guns came to Ireland so they took the guns & arrest Casement. bla bla bla Those involved in The Rising knew they were going to lose w/out guns.

The essence of the Irish plan was to seize certain key points in the city, and hold these for as long as possible, thus disrupting British control of the capital. It was then hoped that one of three things might happen:

  • the country might rise in sympathy
  • British might realise the ultimate impossibility of controlling Ireland and pull out
  • Germans might somehow come to the rescue of the rebels

The Rising

Monday- This was a Bank Holiday, there were crowds in the streets, and these witnessed the small bodies of Volunteers and of the Citizen Army marching, armed, through the city to seize their various strongpoints. It went, on the whole, remarkably smoothly. Five major buildings or groups of buildings were seized north of the River Liffey, nine south of it, and some of the railway stations were occupied. Headquarters were established in the massive General Post Office.With him in the Post Office were Connolly as military commander, Joseph Plunkett (a very sick man), The O'Rahilly, Tom Clark, Sean MacDermott and other leaders. There, too, was a young man named Michael Collins. The rebels immediately set about preparing the Post Office against the attack which they expected almost at once

The British had been taken by surprise and were now almost completely in the dark and appealed to London for reinforcements But if the British in Dublin were in the dark, so were the rebels. They had no wireless links either between the strongpoints they had seized or with the outside world. Communication by runner became difficult and eventually impossible when the fighting reached its peak.

Tuesday- The British were closing in cautiously. Their strategy was to throw a cordon around that area of Dublin where the rebels' strongpoints were, then cut that area in two, and finally mop up. They moved artillery and troops into Trinity College, a natural fortress which the rebels had failed to seize, though they had planned to do so. The reason was the small number of fighting men available. Looting by the crowds began. Martial law was declared.

Wednesday-The British now began to attack in earnest. Their first major action was to destroy Liberty Hall, the headquarters of the Labour Party and of the trade unions, by shellfire from the gunboat Helga. As it happened, the rebels had anticipated this, and the building was empty. The British gunfire was inaccurate and many other buildings were hit and many civilians killed. The army also was using artillery: a 9 -pounder gun was fired against a single sniper. Dublin began to burn, and the Dubliners to starve, for there was no food coming into the city. This was no longer a police action but full-scale war in which no attempt was made to spare the civilians. Meanwhile, British reinforcements marching in from Kingstown were ambushed by de Valera's men and suffered heavy casualties, but by dint of numbers forced their way through. St Stephen's Green had been cleared of rebels, who retreated into the Royal College of Surgeons, and established a strongpoint there.

Thurs: new British commander in-chief arrived. Since Ireland was under martial law, he held full powers there. He had been ordered by the British Prime Minister, Asquith, to put down the rebellion with all possible speed. And this he did regardless of political consequences. Thurs no rebel strongpoint had been taken over

Friday: Connolly ordered the women who had fought so bravely to leave the General Post Office building, which was now cut off and burning. Later that day he and Pearse and the remaining rebels escaped from a building that was by now almost red-hot and about to collapse. They found temporary refuge nearby, while the British continued to shell the empty building. All knew that the end was near. A last battle was fought for King's Street, near the Four Courts. It took some 5,000 British soldiers, equipped with armoured cars and artillery, 28 hours to advance about 150 yards against some 200 rebels. It was then that the troops of the South Staffordshire Regiment bayoneted and shot civilians hiding in cellars. And now all was over. On Saturday morning Pearse and Connolly surrendered unconditionally.

Gpo.jpg


When, on Sunday, the arrested rebels were marched across Dublin from one prison compound to another, they were at times jeered at and booed by the crowds, and particularly in the slum areas. The mass of public opinion had been against the rebels before the Rising and remained so until the reprisals began.
On the direct orders of the cabinet in London, punishment was swift, secret and brutal. The leaders were tried by court martial and shot: only when they were dead were their sentences announced. Among those thus killed were Willie Pearse, who was no leader and who, it was generally believed in Ireland, was killed because he had followed his famous brother, the invalid Plunkett, and, most disgusting of all to Irish minds, Connolly, who was dying and who had to be propped up in bed for the court martial in his hospital room. He was shot in a chair, since he could not stand. A wave of disgust crossed all Ireland. That wave did not subside when Asquith defended these measures in the Commons. Nor did it subside when he realised that a mistake had been made.

When London at last understood that its methods were uniting all Ireland against Britain, there was yet another change of British policy. Many of the 3,000-odd men arrested after the Rising were released from British gaols. They returned to Ireland and began immediately to reorganise a new and more powerful IRA, now with the backing of the people. There was a gesture of appeasement by Lloyd George, the new Prime Minister, who called an Irish Convention intended to solve 'the Irish problem'. Since the Sinn Fein boy boycotted the Convention, it was a complete failure. Again British policy was thrown into reverse, and the leaders of the new independence movement were arrested in the spring of 1918. Michael Collins, how ever, escaped arrest, though there was a price on his head, dead or alive, which eventually reached the sum of ?ire10,000. He was to be the great guerrilla leader in the next round of the struggle. The Irish leaders, with much backing from the United States, both emotional and financial, set about creating a viable alternative government which could and did take over when the British should have at last seen that they could not win. The Sinn Fein triumphed, and won most of the Irish seats in the 1918 election. The elected members, however, formed their own 'parliament', Dail Eireann, rather than sit in Westminster. Collins drew up a strategy of resistance, first passive, then obstructive and finally active, which has since been pursued elsewhere against British imperialism, and indeed against the imperialism of other nations. And in January of 1919 the first shots of the new rebellion were fired in County Tipperary.

In 1921, Ireland was partitioned by the Anglo-Irish Treaty, which gave dominion status to Ireland with the exception of six of the counties of Ulster (Northern Ireland), whose Protestant majority wished to preserve the union and which remained part of the United Kingdom. Northern Ireland, which comprises six of the counties of Ulster, was established as a self-governing province in 1920, having refused to be part of the Irish Free State which was established the following year. Northern Ireland has always been dominated by Unionist parties, which represent the Protestant majority. Many members of the Roman Catholic minority favour union with the Republic of Ireland. Discrimination against Catholics in local government, employment, and housing led to violent conflicts and (from 1969) the presence of British army units in an attempt to keep the peace. Terrorism and sectarian violence by the Provisional IRA and other paramilitary groups, both Republican and Loyalist, resulted in the imposition of direct rule from Westminster in 1972. A power-sharing Northern Ireland Executive (1973-4) was unsuccessful. Closer cooperation developed between Britain and the Republic of Ireland over Northern Irish affairs, especially through the Anglo-Irish Agreement of 1985 and the 'Downing Street Declaration' of 1993. In 1994 the IRA declared a cease-fire which lasted eighteen months; it was reinstated in July 1997. Multi-party talks were set up in 1996; Sinn Fein, having accepted the principles of democracy and non-violence, joined the talks in September 1997.

We now have our own government assembly here in N.ireland but i dunno if its doing much good and we have had lots of help from Bill Clinton & Tony Blair- i dont know much about this all v.confusing but basically

Protestants in Ulster- Want to remain part of Britain & stay under British rule

Catholics- want to be part of united Ireland again

Some ppl are indifferent- i have my views on what id like northern ireland to be & have my reasons but cant voice them here at home because thats y ppl are being shot so thats y its so dangeous here
 
And yeh if there is anything else you wanna know ask me i dunno if i can really help tho but its worth a try! :D
 
What it basically boils down to is that Northern Ireland is broken up into the Catholics and the Protestants. There are actually streets where you know what religion a person is base on the fact that he or she lives on that street.

I know a lot about this because my gram was Born in Belfast and moved over to the states in 1945. She has told me off some horriffic things that Cornwell(I think it is off the top of my head) did to the ppl in all of Ireland not just the north.
 
adamswildhoney said:
What it basically boils down to is that Northern Ireland is broken up into the Catholics and the Protestants. There are actually streets where you know what religion a person is base on the fact that he or she lives on that street.

I know a lot about this because my gram was Born in Belfast and moved over to the states in 1945. She has told me off some horriffic things that Cornwell(I think it is off the top of my head) did to the ppl in all of Ireland not just the north.

Im stuck living in Belfast- what a dump!!! :tsk:

Its not just the streets- its football teams and school uniforms i cant wear my uniform coming home from school if i am wearing it i can only get certain buses home

There are Catholic/ protestant areas- we are in a mixed area thankfully
:up:

I think you mean Cromwell who tried to establish English control over Ireland???
 
Lara Mullen said:
i cant wear my uniform coming home from school if i am wearing it i can only get certain buses home
that's really pathetic (for them to do that i mean) ... it kinda reminds me of the segregation stuff here in the 60's where blacks couldn't eat in specific restaurants and stuff.
 
KhanadaRhodes said:

that's really pathetic (for them to do that i mean) ... it kinda reminds me of the segregation stuff here in the 60's where blacks couldn't eat in specific restaurants and stuff.

Its not that bad..Im used to it I guess, theres places you can/ cant go

One thing i am ALWAYS asked is: what school do you go to

its just ppl asking my religion...i tell ppl i go to college- nosey ppl really get my goat!!

Oh and my mum give us names which dont show our religion and this week a guy is critical after having a fight becus of his irish name :ohmy:

but as long as im not in my uniform and dont say what school i go to nobody will know! :up:
 
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